Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
yOv, adhu oNNu dhaan illaingaREn...maRupadiyin adhaiyE solReerE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
wizzy, the analogy holds.I don't see how you have rebutted it. Homegrow your performers can be said to any developed nation now, no?
you can't equate US with Eng w.r.t braindrain...correct analogy would have been a socialist India/students spending peanuts for their undergrads at IITs/AIIMs and then looked for greener pastures in US with virtually no funding for higher studies to pre 90s apartheid SA whose players had no means to redeem their cricketing skills hence consented to play/represent Eng/Oz/NZ in tests/odis...it is blasphemous to equate US with English cricket because US was a success story before our peeps landed on their shores and now English cricket is seen as a success story courtesy these very mercenaries and also US can survive with just their homegrown talents/system and we can't say the same about English cricket either..Eng/county cricket will be brought to its knees if all the mercenary/kolpak players turned their backs on them.
is what I meant. The former brain-drain argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
There are only so many spots. People who want to try out elsewhere, as they always have can. And mind you they are not hedging. They have to be in England 4 years. So they are forsaking their local opportunities when they do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
I think these are exaggerations.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.
Again, this is not to discount how valuable they are.I think you are discounting the others far too much.
apartheid SA players looking for opportunities elsewhere is natural brain-drain.
Trott who played under 15/19 for SA and now playing tests for Eng is unnatural brain-drain with SA fielding a competent test side :noteeth:
I meant the entire kolpak players who make up the county cricket for what it is today...If only Ecb rests Trott/KP for a test series and play their homegrown Owais/Ravi then we could arrive at a conclusion :-DQuote:
I think these are exaggerations.
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.
P_R to put it succinctly..getting a competent test batsman is a long/tedious process which also involves fair amount of luck w.r.t identifying/grooming the right talent ..OZ with their famed domestic system couldn't muster a prospective test bat to fill the void and are still holding on to Punter/Huss for whatever their worth and same was the case with India holding onto trinity bats..now imagine ECB snapping up 2 quality test bats out of thin air without spending a penny/time.
What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)
avaingaLai nambi ellAm naanE ticket edukka mAttEn :lol2: What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
Of course. This is true of a public school trained doctor in SA.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
Why did KP move? He hates the quota system and thought he won't get his due and went to England.
It is there for a good reason. If people don't like it, then they take the highway. As simple as that. No?
It is quite possible that ECB engineered to have him dropped from the Natal team, and stoked the disfavour he had against the quota system and thereby had him quit and procured him. ippadi yEdhAvadhu irundhA vanmaiyA kaNdikkalaam.
maththapadi, thappillai.
Trott Britis passport. avingallAm appadi dhaan 'nga. angittum ingittum pOyittu dhaan iruppAinga.
Trott's brother plays for some South African county and also for Netherlands
Mugabe's kaduppu with many of the whites is they don't identify with Zimbabwe. They maintain dual citizenships, they repatriate the earnings to England etc.
idhu oru broader social issue 'ngREn.
Cricket will be in pattern with rest of society.
P_R enna kelvi edhu? Trott made it to under 15/19 and I have every reason to believe he would have made it to SA senior side if it wasn't Eng/County dangling the carrot...the chances of him getting a place in Saffer side is as good as Jac RudolphQuote:
What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)
Eng lost 8 tests in the last 3 years..other than the Galle test in which Trott scored a 100 still Eng managed to lose it..even then KP didn't fire in that test ..in all other matches Eng have lost over the last 3 years KP/Trott haven't made any significant contribution.Quote:
What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...m;view=results
so there is some correlation between KP/Trott scoring and Eng winning..suffice to say if it wasn't for these two mercenaries Eng test side would be brought it to its knees :huh: the first scorecard in the query should serve as a sneak peek into a Eng side with only home grown talents on the batting front.
If Aussie Cricketrs start playing for India, eventually that'll lead to more Aussies in other fields in India. We have to start somewhere, don't we? Why do people go to Eng/Aus/western countries? Better opps - it has been happening for decades. It all started with that single plumber, no? Let it start with Cricket in India. What's your problem? How is this not the same as England getting Cricketers from other countries seeking better money in England. Where there is money, man goes. There is nothing more natural than this. You are just inventing a reason to justify England's mollamaarithanam(natural immigration, unnral immigration etc). Which is exactly how Englishmen deal with such issues. Raise some non-issues to distract the main issue. Which is why you can be considered a quasi-Englishman. Your concept of natural and unnatural is simply not enough justification to claim that England using Trott is different from India using Aussie bowlers. And it is this aspect - and your refusal to see reason in this aspect - that annoys me and makes me believe you are vidhandaavadhing
Trott would have easily made it to Saffers team. He went to England for better financial opps. Just as a second grade Aussie cricketer could come to India for better financial opps. We are a cricketing super+power baby - you want dough? Come here and l**k our a**e. Not that I'd be happy supporting an indian team with an Aussie make+up. I have enough trouble identifying with a pre-dominantly north indian team. But sauce for goose, sauce for gander etc. Do not obfuscate the issue by taling about natural, unnatural etc. What's more natural than man travelling to wherever'll get respect and money?
Persistence thy name is Plum, :bow: Prabhu ram nu kooda sollalam but plum covers a wider spectrum.
Point taken. Their contribution/influence is indeed as crucial as you claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
btw Trott double passport.
Even you don't believe this Plum. You think this is a start or an anomaly. Your take is, 'even if it is an anomaly, let it be'Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
If that is ALL you are willing to feel about the whole thing, that is the only plane in which you are going to consider it, if an urge to consider the long-tradition is malicious obfuscation, then I will concede it is the most logical thing in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
btw England now wants an IPL style T20 :-) Interesting times ahead in these pages.
Yes, it is 5 years now, used to be 7 years before at one stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgb
yappa :thumbsup:Quote:
Point taken. Their contribution/influence is indeed as crucial as you claim.
erunthutu pogatum..blame it on ECB's porous policy w.r.t kolpak playersQuote:
btw Trott double passport.
County news
England professionals demand IPL-style T20
David Hopps
May 2, 2012
Kevin Pietersen playing for Delhi Daredevils in the IPL. English professionals have told the PCA that a similar tournament should be established by the ECB © AFP
England's professional cricketers have overwhelmingly rejected the findings of the Morgan Report into the future of the first-class game and have called for the introduction of a high-profile Twenty20 tournament that can bear comparison with IPL.
The survey, conducted by the Professional Cricketers' Association (PCA), reveals in detail for the first time the strength of opposition to the proposed shake-up.
The players show almost universal support for the retention of the 16-match Championship and calls for T20 to become a highly promoted tournament in the middle of the season - in the manner of the IPL - to maximise the chances of attracting some of the world's best players.
The PCA report concludes that the English game must: "Establish a high quality T20 competition which draws on experience from other T20 events worldwide, and balances the requirement for short-term financial return for the counties with the need to establish a sustainable T20 income stream.
"For that, we need a competition which has the potential to attract the best overseas players and maximises overseas broadcast interest. A significant increase in the prize money at stake is a critical element of that.
"The T20 competition has a crucial role to play, both from a cricketing perspective, and for county finances. From the point of view of the players, the limitations on their ability to play a full part in the IPL because of the overlap with the start of our season ... make it critical that our own T20 competition delivers adequate compensation in terms of excitement and reward.
"The question for T20 is not simply 'how many games can we squeeze in?' particularly given the dangers of putting quantity before quality, but 'how can we make our T20 competition as good as it can be?'
"In designing the optimal competition, we believe ECB must engage with players (including those who have played in the IPL, Champions League, and Big Bash), spectators, sponsors and broadcasters (both at home and overseas) to understand how best to create a successful competition, played in front of large crowds, and attracting a good TV audience." Good luck with that.
But the desire for a high-profile T20 tournament comes alongside a desire to protect the integrity of the 16-match two-divisional Championship.
The report concludes: "The County Championship remains the priority, and this is a competition which must have full fixture symmetry and integrity. This is regarded by the players as more important than creating space in the schedule to allow our teams to compete in the Champions League, and this in turn is a higher priority than achieving further reductions in the amount of cricket played in the domestic season.
"We cannot support changes to our premier competition which are made to allow more room in the schedule for the other competitions ... We would further argue that the financial benefits claimed are (a) unproven, and (b) relatively small compared with the cricketing and commercial imperative of sustaining England's position as No. 1 Test playing nation."
As many as 91% of players regarded the Championship, often derided for its low crowds, as the most important tournament, with a similar number (87%) placing the Friends Life t20 as the second-most important competition. CB40 came a distant third, with the PCA calling for a "fundamental review" of how much 40 or 50-over cricket is played by the counties.
The players' views, which preliminary soundings conducted by ESPNcricinfo also suggest are shared by the bulk of spectators, place further pressure on the ECB to accept that the Morgan Report's solutions to the game's ills are not supported either by those who play or watch.
The exhaustive review, conducted by David Morgan, a former ECB chairman, was shelved by the ECB in March as the board decided instead to conduct further research throughout the 2012 season into the future of professional cricket in England.
Growing opposition to Morgan's recommendations, which included a reduction in Championship matches from 16 to 14, a return to 50-over cricket and 14 T20 matches, left the ECB board unable immediately to adopt a report that many senior officials still want to see become reality.
Morgan's proposal to play T20 cricket across much of the summer, on nights preferred by individual counties, was opposed by 77% of players polled who wanted the group stages to be played in a single block.
The PCA research was carried out online and involved 277 registered professionals, with a response rate of approximately 70%.
David Hopps is the UK editor of ESPNcricinfo
Feeds: David Hopps
© ESPN EMEA Ltd.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-c...ry/563445.html
AmAm oNNu oNNa spoon-feed paNNinA, grandA idhai mattum othukkaREnna vENDiyadhi. idhu ellAm combined effect dhAnE england-ai evil-nu solROm. ivLO aniyaayathukku kAraNamAna England-ai evil-nu orukka sonnA koRainjA pOyiduvInga?Quote:
What arguments have I pooh-pooh'ed Plum?
Changing bouncer-rule, changing fielding rules arbitrarily, bias in refereeing, bodyline was invented by England - idhellAm oththukka dhaanE seyREn.
I will pooh-pooh switch-hit conspiracy-theories every day of the week. So?
Even now, your argument is "I can see that England is being self-servingbut it suits my vision of the game"-nu solRInga but you cannot get yourself to unequivocally condemn the imperialist tendencies of England? Why?
(Not that your word has any currency)
also Ed Joyce's case was an classic example of ECB bending the rules to their whims..this guy was in Eng colours for 2007 worldcup and was in running for test cap but when he was deemed gaali perungaya dabba ECB didn't waste any time in leaving him in the lurch and poor guy had to revert to Ire for 2011 worldcup :neutral:
yOv, ingilAndhu passport vachchurukkAruyyA. appadippatta aaLaik kooda sErththukka koodaadhunnA ennaiyyA arththam?Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
was he English whilst playing junior cricket for SA...apadi paatha Ryan Harris-um double passport holder..appo avunum English-a :huh:Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Telegraph did raise some pertinent points when he debuted which still holds good with SA touring next month.
Quote:
Trott says he feels English, but like Kevin Pietersen, he only moved to England as a professional in his early twenties. Clearly, he is English enough to play for England. But culturally, he'll always be South African. Because you can change your national allegiances, and even change your accent (though Trott hasn't). But you can't change your upbringing. You don’t become a different person by working overseas in your twenties, any expat will tell you that.
Quote:
But England's 'we' status will be tested this winter, particularly when Pietersen and Trott, those two sons of South Africa, are batting together for England against the country – and the culture – that created them. I've got nothing against either individual. And if you're picking ringers you might as well pick good ones.
But it’s ultimately a numbers game. With one South African in the team, England were still 'we'. But with two South Africans in the team? Three? Four? Eleven?
Overall evil, concerted scheming attack on all other phlows-nu naan sollavE illaiyE :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Imperialist tendencies-A? :huh: naalu pErukku nalladhu nadakkudhunnA edhuvum thappillai. Ippo Eng T20 tournament-ai BCCI scuttle paNNA, powermonger-nu thitta pOREnA :lol2: muppathaayirra roova vaangunadhukku Nepaalkaara kurrkA ippo dhaan correctA sOli pArththAn-nu solluvEn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
T20 ozhiyaNum, chucking ozhiyaNum - adhai vaLarththu vittavanunga ellAm manam puzhungi shaavaNum - idhai pOnRa nalleNgaLai thaviRa vERonRum aRiyEn paraaparamE
Test cricket ozhiyaNum. England and rao bahadurs manam puzhungaNum. Epdiyum sachin retire aayiduvaapla. So enakku endha nashtamum illai. Rao Bahadur Prabhu Ram - I hope that day is not too far.
Adhaavandhu ivlo page Anappuramum oru inconvenient pointukku cleverA ignore pandraar. How is it natural for a cricketer to toggle between ireland and England? How is that fair? Playing for both countries within a month - IPL-la kooda ipdi nadakkAdhu. Ivlo kevalamaana velai ellam pannuvaangalaam - adhu naturalaam. Ivaru thappunnu othukkave maattaaraam. Adhu apdiye logicalA. Rabbit 3 legs.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-c...ry/563497.html
Oru Indiano Pakistaniyo Lankano umpirea thittinaa thaniyaa pEsi mattera mudichiduvaangaLA? :think:
surprise surprise! This article is not open for comments :lol2: rest all extra and sundries related to IPL, BCCI etc are made a open market where any tom, dick (richard) and harry can post crap :wink:
Ireland-England ellAm oNNukkuLLa oNNu. Ireland kaaranga aruvadai mudinjadhum, summA irukkarudhukku badhilA ENgland viLayAduradhula endha thappum illlai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
^Northern Ireland-um unga jurisdiction-a :huh:
:rotfl2:. This is quite a new low.
My old boss is Irish and he hates nothing more than England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Australiakaarankku kooda dhaan England-ai pudikkAdhu. adhukkAga avainga oNNukkuLLa oNNu illai-nu aayirumA.
neenga ellAm purinjum puriyAdha mAdhiriyE maindain paNReengaLE
Pattinson kudumbamE reNdA pirinju oNNu pazhanikku pOyiruchchu. idhellAm avaingaLukku sappai matter.
Adhu vera idhu vera :fatigue:. I can't take a history class now.
Your 2nd line applies to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Michael Collins, Sinn Fein ellAm dham kattinaalum underlying vishayam idhu dhaan.
ingErndhu ange, angErndhu inga vandhu cricket aaduradhu pallANdu kaala vazhakkam.
Gayle pulls out of Somerset to play for WI - http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindi...ry/563553.html
Good contest ahead :clap:
Cricket vazhakkama irukkalam. Aana onnukulla rendu rendukulla moonu nnu solradhellam :lol2:
Of course I meant ciricket parivarththanai only.
maththapadi adichikkattum, namakkenna pOchchu.
Kandupudichavangalai loose-la vittutingala ?? :lol2:.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
What do yo think about the recent demands by English players?. I don't think ECB wll give into them given the fact that IPL is already minting money. They need a Villain to keep up their act.
Stuff and nonsense - in football, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland are all separate teams. So is Scotland. So is South Africa. Same in Rugby. Cricketla mattum ipdi nadandhA adhu odd illaiyA? Ninga solradhu avlo naturalnA maththa sportlalAm En ipdi nadakka mAttEngudhu. Don't you think you are being stupid when you claim irishmen playing for Englad is natural? ValikkAdha mAdhiriyE evlo nEram nadikka pORinga?
Exactly! Only in Cricket they have players born outside England, this is more like county teams or foot ball teams (Chelsea, Man U, Man City etc). So how can this team be called the English National team ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
When it comes to English Football, it is all English players (born in England).
That has got to do with who administers the sport. Indha nadhariga dhaane adhayum panrardhu/.
2 strong rebuttal posts were swallowed in a hub error message. Feeyar tongue plucking mAdhiri sila kELvigaL ketturundhen ellaam pOchu :(Will try again later
Cricket ku oru rule , Football ku ennoru rule ah ?
ethO thanga convenience ku etha mathiri Rules and Regulartions ah mathiri orE naadu, Ingilaand thaan
Vengala kuralon..TMS isn't the same w/o him :-(
http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/145200/145294.jpg
wizzy
Yaar intha photo la ?