The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

Srivatsan

Nice to see that you have accepted most of the points :)

Well I am ready to have a go at the war DAY BY DAY. Pl start your version. I will chip in with my views if you deviate from any facts .

Your contention is that Arjuna was a great warrior. My counter to you is that DID HE STAND UP TO HIS REPUTATION ? THE ANSWER WILL BE A BIG NO ONLY
AS HE COULD NOT KILL ANY OF HIS ARCH RIVALS BHEESHMA OR DRONA OR KARNA THROUGH CONVENTIONAL WAR METHODS.ARE YOU AWARE OF ANOTHER SHAMEFUL ACT OF ARJUNA. HE SHOT AN ARROW AT PURISIRAVAS WHO WAS ACTUALLY ABOUT TO KILL SATYAKI

By any stretch of imagination, can you justify this BRAVERY OF ARJUNA ??

This was another instance of Arjuna breaking war rules

IMO, A TRUE WARRIOR IS ONE WHO REMAINS A WARRIOR TO THE LAST WORD BY DISPLAYING HIS SKILLS WHICH ARE AS PER WAR RULES.

Here Arjuna miserably fails as a true warrior ( whatever may his background of being a skillful warrior. I know he could use both his hand simultaneously to shoot arrows )

This is my counter . Well if you still stand firm , so be it because the whole world knows how Arjuna eliminated the above 3 stalwarts .

As regards Duryodhana cooling himself under water, if you still have doubts , pl refer to Vyasar virundhu written by the great Rajaji ( I think Rajaji was more knowledgeable than you atleast ! ). Nowhere he mentions that Duryodhana ran away from the scene .
Don’t write your own Mahabaratha here.
THERE ARE SOME SINCERE GUYS HERE WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT MAHABARATHA .

Are you aware that Yudhistira offered a option to Duryodhana to select any one of the pandavas to fight with mace & he chose Bheema . He could have chosen any other guy . This proves his valour as a true warrior.

If you still feel that ARJUNA WAS MORE VALOROUS , CAN YOU JUSTIFY WHY DID THE PANDAVAS USE SIKANDI ?
WHY DID THEY UTTER LIE TO DRONA ?
WHY DID ARJUNA KILL KARNA WHILE HE WAS LIFTING THE WHEEL ?
WHY DID ARJUNA SHOT AN ARROW AT PURISIRAVAS WHEN HE WAS FIGHTING SATYAKI ?

WHY ARJUNA COULD NOT ELIMINATE ANY OF THE 3 GREAT GENERALS ??

Looking forward to your answers

Ok Nakkeeran....The deal is set! Here we start. But before that I have few conditions that all of us who are going to participate in this 18 days discussion should follow! I don't know whether the rules were followed on those 18 days, but we have to follow this...

First of all, when we discuss Mahabharatha, I do not refer anything other than Straight MahaBharatha, written by Vyasa in the name, Jaya and I do not accpet anything including Rajagopla chary's Vyasar Virundu. If you have a version of line-by-line translation, then we go by it.

So, I need some time, to get my original version of "Jaya" from my home. I am in Montreal and it has to come from India. Well, I will look for some online versions, in Samskrutham, if it is available. In addition ot this, I have my own academic commitments! So there might be some lag or something! :) . But I will try my best to present my vire in time....in uniform interval!

Second, no hero worship in between discussions. We are going to discuss just the events as events.

MahaBharatha is not a myth or a comic story. It is real history, with flush and blood. Irrespective of what our fantacy is, what has happened is happened. We are going to discuss this here and that is all. NO personal attacks or rediculing!

No interim judgement before the end of 18th day! At the end of 18 days, the observers will deciede who was chivalrous!

Before that I wish to make my stand very very clear regarding the war. The warriors who fought were extremely powerful and they were real veeras, including Sakuni! So I have no ill-feeling or hatred against any one single personality (except Jayathratha, who was always cheap, even at times when there was no battle; in short he was a "pedi payal")

It is becoming of Tamizh Nadu that, calling the popular figures of history, as villains and vice versa, becuz of the notorious dravidian movement. I am against this! Just becuz, Arjuna went off the rules few times, he can't be called a coward and all his opponents as Maha veeras! This is a ridiculous stmt.

Who din't went off the rules in war?..almost everyone, including my dear ancestor, the great Drona! So I am not ready to take sides.

So what we are going to do is just translate the versions of Vyasa and analyze. That is all!If you accept this, here we start!

8-)

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Originally Posted by srivatsan

So, I need some time, to get my original version of "Jaya" from my home. I am in Montreal and it has to come from India. Well, I will look for some online versions, in Samskrutham, if it is available.

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In this wonderful internet age the Sanskrit version and a complete English translation are both available online.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm
Arambinga anne! I am looking forward to a good potti.

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Originally Posted by podalangai

Quote:

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Originally Posted by srivatsan

So, I need some time, to get my original version of "Jaya" from my home. I am in Montreal and it has to come from India. Well, I will look for some online versions, in Samskrutham, if it is available.

---

In this wonderful internet age the Sanskrit version and a complete English translation are both available online.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm
Arambinga anne! I am looking forward to a good potti.

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Thanks a lot Podalangai...I shall go thru' this! You have saved my money..hi hi hi :D

...
Mahabharatha... a Battle between...TRUTH Vs REALITY.!

Well... Glad, it is taking a New Trend... of Second time Hot- discussions ...

...starting right from the Origin and Rudimentary factors of Mahabharatha.

...which I want to ENJOY reading both the sides of arguments ... in a HEATHY APPROACH... of Open-mindedness.

So I don't want to interfere in between....as far as possible. But I hope...

...some of the Basic points I put forth herebelow may be helpful to both the sides...

...which I highlight here in the Common angle of mutual interests.

(1) What is Mahabharatha?... An Epic of True Events as part of Indian History....

...Irrespective of Religious aspect in it... since named as the FIFTH VEDA...

... there are imbued Lessons of high Moral Values... applicable for the Overall Mankind.... it is so asserted by Common Scholars. How?

We get the answers by observing deeply on several Breakthroughs and serious Violations on the Conventional Codes of practice... especially on the War-Norms of those days....

... And the greatest wonder or even mystery lies.. that the so called God-incarnation, Krishna was either instrumental or a silent witness for such events...

... contrary to stipulated Dharmas. If God Himself was encouraging Adharma.. how does it qualify to be called as DHARMA-YUDDHAM?....

If Krishna wanted, he could have killed those Wickeds or Enemies to Pandavas... by other easy means. Whereas He has taken a ROUND-ABOUT ROUTE.... to achieve His Goal!...Why?

(2) The Kurukshethra War... starts with NOT WITH WEAPONS... as is the Normal practice.... but with PREACHING A SERMON, Bhagawad Geetha ....which does not talk of War predominantly... but on LIFE-CODES... Common to Mankind.!

... and the War is the "Practical-Annexure" to God's Sermon, Geetha...DRAMATISED by the antagonistic forces... towards Justice.

(3) The first word of the Gospel, Bhagawad Geetha... is DHARMA-KSHETHRAE...How? and Why?

(4) While that Sloka was uttered as a Question to Sanjaya by "Dhrithrashtra"... the embodiment of Selfishness backed by Wickedness...

... Still it has formed part of the Gospel Geetha. Even without that Sloka, Sanjaya could have started narrating or the Question could have been omitted from the Gospel... allowing the readers to gues the Question. But was not done so! Why?

(5) In brief... Mahabharatha is a Life-Drama to show the posterity...

...as to what will happen if the wickeds come to power...

... and that even if the wicked fights with the supports of the Nobles and Superlative war-mights ...

...God's support will not go towards that side, simply because of Nobles form part of Antagonists to Righteousness.

(6) It is an exemplary lesson directed by God to Humanity... the Greatness of REALITY OVER TRUTH...

...when the Righteous man is innocently caught in dilemma.

Indulging in utter Cheating, Unethical Domination, Breach of Trust, Transgressing even the basic Morality of a King towards any woman towards modesty and dignity ...

...coupled with Jealousy and Inhuman Hegemony... to overiride the Wisdom and Righteousness on the other side...

...If and when a group of Wicked Dogs occupy the Throne...

... the Righteous People as victims have to BARK FOR JUSTICE... That is Mahabharatha.!!!
...

Srivatsan

Great ! :D All your conditions accepted !

Looking forward to day by day account of the war.

Just one suggestion. Shall we analyse the pros & cons of the war atleast after that particular day was covered ? then we may move over to the next day . What do you feel ?

Just one small mention about Jayathradha. As per Vyasar virundhu, Rajaji mentions that he was also a valiant warrior & was fighting hard with Arjuna till the fag end of the day & it was Krishna who became restless.
I am aware how Arjuna successfully broke all barriers & marched towards Jayathratha. The first move itself was a masterstroke by his mentor Krishna requesting him to seek permission to his Guru Drona to fullfill his mission by pleading that you are my Guru . Noone can beat you on warfare . Pl allow me !

Ok lets move on now pls :D

Srivatsan

Before the war day 1 , pl also list out the various forces like charioteers, elephants, infantry , Athirathas etc & then proceed towards Day 1

Bye

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Originally Posted by Nakeeran

Srivatsan

Great ! :D All your conditions accepted !

Looking forward to day by day account of the war.

Just one suggestion. Shall we analyse the pros & cons of the war atleast after that particular day was covered ? then we may move over to the next day . What do you feel ?

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Hi Nakkeran, I really want to accrpt your condition, for you have accpeted all of mine! But I am afraid that the analysis may not allow us to proceed to the next day! Well, if you still feel it is better, we shall go by it!

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Originally Posted by Nakeeran

Just one small mention about Jayathradha. As per Vyasar virundhu, Rajaji mentions that he was also a valiant warrior & was fighting hard with Arjuna till the fag end of the day & it was Krishna who became restless.
I am aware how Arjuna successfully broke all barriers & marched towards Jayathratha.

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It has something to do with one of the pre-war event, when Jayathratha was so much insluted by Pandavas, during their Vana Vasam, Jayatharatha meditated on Lord Shiva and asken him the boon of defeating Arjuna in war!

Lord Shiva said that it was impossible for him and he gave the boon of standing up against Arjuna on atleast one day and that boon was fatal for Abhimanyu!

Well, I am happy that lot of people are going to learn Mahabharatha by this discussion....and here we start with the blessings of all divine sages! :)

[quote=Nakeeran]srivatsan

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Originally Posted by Nakeeran

Just one small mention about Jayathradha. As per Vyasar virundhu, Rajaji mentions that he was also a valiant warrior & was fighting hard with Arjuna till the fag end of the day & it was Krishna who became restless.
I am aware how Arjuna successfully broke all barriers & marched towards Jayathratha.

---

It has something to do with one of the pre-war event, when Jayathratha was so much insluted by Pandavas, during their Vana Vasam, Jayatharatha meditated on Lord Shiva and asken him the boon of defeating Arjuna in war!

Lord Shiva said that it was impossible for him and he gave the boon of standing up against Arjuna on atleast one day and that boon was fatal for Abhimanyu![/quote:bab06bdc66]

Hi Srivatsan,

The bold one above . I think Jayathradha used that boon on that fateful day when chakravyuga was formed by Drona & poor Abimanyu pierced & stormed inside but could not come out as he was not taught . The guy who repaired the breach was Jayathradha & was invincible that day ( the boon was used that day ) . None of the Pandavas could overtake him ( Arjun was dragged to another corner by the Thirigarthas- the suicide squad !! ) & in the process Abi was isolated .

PL START WITH THE DETAILS OF RESPECTIVE SIDES , FOLLOWED BY THE ARMY STRENGTH & THEN DAY 1 :D