Ramanujacharya - The great Philosopher and Social Reformer

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

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Ramanajucharya said that a person's birth and / or caste was utterly irrelevant to his status. He accepted non-Brahmins as his gurus, and he made his followers venerate non-Brahmin azhwars and other vaishnava devotees. His point was not merely to make non-Brahmins Brahmins, but to do away with the idea that one's birth conferred status.

Here is his teaching as recorded by Pillai Lokachariar in the Sri Vachana Bhushanam. It is in manipravalam, but if you know Tamil it is easily understandable:

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam
athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam
athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum

That is extremely strong language, wouldn't you say? I hope it gives you a better idea of what he was trying to achieve.

...
Ramanuja propogated TRUE SPIRIT OF HUMANITY.

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Originally Posted by aravindhan

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

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........ Here is his teaching as recorded by Pillai Lokachariar in the Sri Vachana Bhushanam. It is in manipravalam, but if you know Tamil it is easily understandable:

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam
athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam
athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum

That is extremely strong language, wouldn't you say? I hope it gives you a better idea of what he was trying to achieve.

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The same Text also says...

Bhagawadh-apachaaraththinum DHOORTHAM Bhaagawadh-apachaaramirhae.

...which means ...Guilts to God-Servicemen are WORSE than...

... the Guilts to GOD HIMSELF.

bhāgavatāpacārandhān anēka vidam =
There are several types of Guilts to God-servicemen

athilē oṉṟu avarkaḷ pakkal janma nirūpaṇam =
One of them is.... PROBING into the Value-proof of THEIR BIRTH-ORIGIN.

athai mātru yoni parīkṣaiyōṭu okkumeṉṟu śāstram sollum =
which equals to EXAMINING his MOTHER'S CHILD-DELIVERY-PATH...
... declares Saasthras

(1) Ramanuja did not convert anybody from one Caste to another. But only preached ...

... BY BIRTH Nobody is Superior or Inferior... ALL ARE EQUAL in the Society.

(2) His first Guru on the Philosophy of Visishtadwaitha... was Thiru-Kachi Nambi, a Vaisya... as ordained by Lord Varadaraja.

(3) He broke the convention... for KAILAAHU ( Accompaniment with the Acharya or Saint in front of him, taking the Guru's hands to rest on the Disciple's Shoulders) by Ilhaiya-villi-dhaasan, a Thiru-Kulathor (Harijan)

(4) He has documented in KOYIL-OZHUHU ... Srirangam-Temple- Regulations on the Ritual conducts.... stipulating EQUAL TREATMENT for all the God-Serviceman....(irrespective of their Birth origin)..

Thus a Vedic-pundit, Bhattar (Poojaari), the Potmaker, Dhobi(Clothe Washerman), Pandhal builder....

...was and is rendered EQUAL HONOUR towards their varied sorts of Temple- services in the Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam and elsewhere following his Faith.

(5) As an honour and recognition ... for True devotion towards Lord Narayana..

...Ramanuja incorporated a Thuluka-Nachiyar sannidhi within the precincts of Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam...

... for a Muslim-princess !.

(6) He Volunteered to develop the sense of Devotion amongst the Downtrodden ignorant-Villagers... named them as THIRU-KULATHOR ... making them feel high-spirited and Self-elated as Humans... irrespective of Heredity.

(7) After his personal strenuous endeavour to convince all the Four segments of Society....Viz. Kings, Pundits, Reluctant Harijans, Willing Devotee-Harijans barred by others.... Ramanuja arranged for Worship in all the Vishnu- temples under his control.... starting from Thiru-Narayanapuram in the present Karnataka.

(8) Ramanuja introduced a new tradition of ... PULLING RATHA (God's Chariot) UNITEDLY by all the Devotees at par, which healthy practice was accepted by the Kings and adopted in all other Temples too subsequently all over South India... supplemented by Orissa Puri Temple.

(9) Amongst the devotees, he inculcated a Father-Child Spirit of Royal -affection by Paternal-values coupled with Simplicity from God....

... by newly introducing the Uthsavar to visit around the Residential Streets of Devotees....

... which practice too was appreciated by the Kings and adopted in all other Temples of South India.

(10) He also introduced a new System of showing equal regard towards all the Devotees... irrespective of Age and Knowledge too....

... on an only consideration ... that before God, all His Devotees are SIMILAR TO DUST-PARTICLES...

So it is quite immaterial...and there can be No Meaningful Consideration as to ...

... WHICH ONE DUST IS SUPERIOR OVER THE OTHER...in the Oceanic Realm of God.!.
...

Dear Sudhaama,

Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)

[quote="Rohit"]Dear Sudhaama,
Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)[/quote

Dear Mr Rohit,

Thank you very much for detailed Feedback and ENCOURAGEMENT. to me.

Ramanuja's various Treatises...... including Brahma-soothra-Bashyam for Vedas... and Geetha-Bashyam too....

as well as his approach are entirely based on the Concept of Thiruvaaymozhi of Nammazhwar....

...although he has not quoted so anywhere all through... because All- India Philosophical Scholars in and out of Vedic Religion, did not value any Tamil-scriptures as divine or authentic God-say ...

...or even as the Tamil-form of Descriptive-Veda... despite such a fact...

....ONLY BECAUSE OF THE MEDIUM LANGUAGE TAMIL. .

Rather all the Scholars including the Kings of those days decried Tamil very low before Sanskrit, so called Vedic-Language of Divinity.

But they all realised the Truth ...due to the strenuous endeavour by Ramanuja...

... after he could excel and win over all his critics and opponents.. invariably.

... when the Nation could realize that Ramanujacharya was the Re-incarnation of Adhi-sesha ...

...and that the Alwars too were God-sent ..So their words should be treaed as Gospels of God emanated through them.

So Thiruvaaymozhi has the clear answer for all your questions... which sense was propogated by Ramanuja to the Overall Society.

In brief....

(1) Vaikuntham puhuvadhu Manhnhavar Vidhiyae =

Birth and Sufferings are because of KARMAS... outcome of past deeds. Mankind's birth is the last opportunity to get rid of furthermore Re-births. So every man is destined to end his series of births and must strive to reach Moksha / Mukthi / Bliss... by sincerely adhering to Dharmas in the present birth... and by TOTAL-SURRENDER to God.

(2) Saranham-aahum Thanadhu Thaalh Adaindhaarkku yellaam,
Maranam-aakki Vaikuntham kodukkum Piraan.=

God is the only ULTIMATE GOAL for Man... not only for Post-death period... but also for the present days. So Man should surrender to God by true sense and spirit... in his EVERY THOUGHT TALK and DEED.

Consequently God will end the Sufferings soon, gracefully blessing the Devotee for Liberation.

(3) Onrhu ena, pala ena, Arhivarhum vadivinulh ninrha Nanrhu ezhil Naaranan, Naanmuhan, Aran ennum Ivarai, "ONRHA" num Manathu vaithu... ulhlhi num iru-pasai arhuththu..... Avanidai nanhnhinam naamae.=

God is One. But he appears and showers grace in the various Forms and Formless too... according to the choice of the devotees.

One God Narayana appears as Siva, Brahma and other deities too.

But the easiest form of worship is.... ONE UNIFIED FORM of all Gods within One God Narayana.... without any dilemma or duplicacy.

Accomodation with the Global-devotees of various Faiths including Atheists, is unavoidable.

Social Unity... is utmost important... although of Mosaic-faiths and Non- faith.

Collective-prayer fetches fast Results.

Surrender to Unified- Narayana is the "Easiest means" to lead a Happy Life and ULTIMATE HUMAN GOAL
...

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

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Originally Posted by Rohit

Dear Sudhaama,
Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)

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Dear Mr Rohit,

Thank you very much for detailed Feedback and ENCOURAGEMENT. to me.

Birth and Sufferings are because of KARMAS... outcome of past deeds.

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Dear Sudhaama,
A man like you, with such a demanding undertaking, is bound to be in exigency for positive feedback and encouragement. You are most welcome for that, but the pleasure is all mine. :)

Thank you very much for providing the expected answer. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by In the "k-NO-w !!! ... GOD ???" thread Sudhaama

Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer

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Therefore, the rest of information in your reply is absolutely redundant.

Thank you :D

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Originally Posted by Rohit

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Originally Posted by In the "k-NO-w !!! ... GOD ???" thread Sudhaama

Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer

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Therefore, the rest of information in your reply is absolutely redundant.

Thank you :D

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Dear Mr Rohit,

I never said so... and if I have said there must be under a context and conditions for it.

....But even then.... rather in ANY CASE... both the persons of opposite approaches, cannot be EQUALLED....

...Nor their Approaches can be the same.... Nor of EQUAL POSITIVE VALUE

That was the statement from an Atheist, about 3 years back, in another Thread,...( I remember well ... who and where... but I don't want drag him here now unnecessarily, because he is out of Hub now-a-days.)

... which I vehemently opposed and justified how two persons of Positive and Negative propensities...

...differently react to Onslaughts of Fate in a discerning manner.

I can further elaborate and justify if you want.

Psychologists and Philosophers speak in One Voice... although their Routes and approaches are different.

That conclution is the ULTIMATE TRUTH.... UNSHAKEABLE...by Positive outlook.

Ramanuja too establishes the same Large-hearted approach of GOD IS LOVE.
...

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

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Originally Posted by Rohit

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Originally Posted by In the "k-NO-w !!! ... GOD ???" thread Sudhaama

Believers and Non-Believers both Suffer

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Therefore, the rest of information in your reply is absolutely redundant.

Thank you :D

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Dear Mr Rohit,

I never said so... and if I have said there must be under a context and conditions for it.

....But even then.... rather in ANY CASE... both the persons of opposite approaches, cannot be EQUALLED....

...Nor their Approaches can be the same.... Nor of EQUAL POSITIVE VALUE

That was the statement from an Atheist, about 3 years back, in another Thread,...( I remember well ... who and where... but I don't want drag him here now unnecessarily, because he is out of Hub now-a-days.)

... which I vehemently opposed and justified how two persons of Positive and Negative propensities...

...differently react to Onslaughts of Fate in a discerning manner.

I can further elaborate and justify if you want.

Psychologists and Philosophers speak in One Voice... although their Routes and approaches are different.

That conclution is the ULTIMATE TRUTH.... UNSHAKEABLE...by Positive outlook.

Ramanuja too establishes the same Large-hearted approach of GOD IS LOVE.
...

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Dear Sudhaama,
I can understand the reason for your dissonance, but please go to that thread and check it for yourself whether you have said it or not.

Nonetheless, it is a belief that makes a Believer; and whatever Believers have said so far, are saying now and will ever say, were/are/will be based on a belief, which does not and cannot alter the wider and serious implications of the believed principles, irrespective of the context or the condition. That is all I can say to you for now.

Thank you :D :thumbsup:

Very good posts

Hi all

after i read so much abt ramanujacharya, i wanted to share the beautiful krithi on ramanujacharya by annamaya

Gathulanani Kilamaina kaliyuga mandu
gathi ithade chupe ghana guru daivamu..

this is just the pallavi... this krithi throws light on life of ramanujacharya.. all imp aspects of his life..

great work sudhamu garu...
thank you.

.
- BEST ADVANTAGE of the Wisdom & SOUL- POWERED ..

...Global Human-Birth... towards their HAPPINESS? How.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rohit

Dear Sudhaama,

Your commitment to maintain Ramanujacharya as the great philosopher and social reformer is, without any question, commendable.

You have briefly touched upon Ramanujacharya's life and the differences between Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya. You have also clarified his stand on some contentious and controversial scriptural issues.

I have searched the entire topic, but couldn't find anything on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain suffering in general.

May I request you to elaborate on Ramanujacharya's views on human suffering and the framework he used to explain it?

Thank you :)

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Ramanujacharya's Counsel to HUMANITY... Salient Factors:--

Ramanujacharya.. being a born Advaithi as the Descendant-disciple of Adhi Sankaracharya... got converted to Visishta-Adhwaitha system of Philosophy... was well-versed in both the Adwaitha and Visishta-Adwaitha Philosophies. Such an extensive and thorough knowledge on both the systems could help him to analyticallly present the Descriptive meanings to several intricate terminologies of Veda, Geetha as well as controversial events in Puranas too.

Consequently such a discerning Analytical-Research Treatise on Brahma-Soothra (Conceptual Gyst of Vedas)... could fetch him the highest honour for his Descriptive-Treatise (Bashyam) as...

... SRI-BASHYAM by the Godess Saraswathi in person at Kashmir... Saraswathi-peetam Temple...

... and NOT .. RAMANUJA-BASHYAM... similar to the parallel honours conferred to the other two Bashyams... by the same deity..

.. as SANKARA-BASHYAM... for the Adwaithic treatise by Sri Sankaracharacharya.. and...

-- MADHWA-BASHYAM...for the Dwaithic treatise by Sri Madhwacharya....

Rather by the Title "Sri-Bashyam" .. Saraswathi meant that it is TOTAL and COMPLETE....

...Since both the other Acharyas have handled only the respective parts of Vedic-terminologies...

... of one amongst the Two Sections...Adwaithic or Dwaithic...

... the DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE CONCEPTS of Bedha-Sruthi and Abedha-Sruthi sections...

...While Sri Ramanujacharya... has not left out any sections of Vedic-texts, untouched for description... but in total... even though each such parts of Adwaithic and Dwaithic, are self-contradictory and appears ...INCONSISTENT too, at some texts of Vedas...

And further, the most important truth is...Sri Ramanuja only has taken up the Third-concept of Gataka-Sruthi terminologies of Vedas...

...which both the other Acharyas had left UNTOUCHED...

.. since those Acharyas could not feel it compatible nor comfortable to their respective Theories... of Monism and Dualism...

.. and also might have felt embarassed to describe the Gataka-Sruthi terminologies of Vedas...

... that God is DEPENDANT on his Creations at certain stages...

... similar to a Teacher with the Students, Doctor with the Patients, King with the Subjects...

... [although both are placed in the opposite status as the GIVER and RECEIVERS...

... the Supreme and Sole- Omnipotent (Benefactor) Vs Succourless and Mercy-dependant Creations (Beneficiaries)]

Whereas Ramanuja could handle all the three divergent sections, at ease... based on Visishta-Adwaithic Philosophy...

...the main basis of which is that GOD IS LOVE...like our Parents... Not as Ruler.

Based on the above Concept, Ramanuja could find No difficulty nor embarassment to undisputably answer even the intricate Questions by the several learned Scholars not only amongst his disciples but also of other Schools of philosophy and Religions who challenged the veracity of Ramanuja's stand.

And further, towards the opposite strata of Society... the so called Illiterate downtrodden too... he could convincingly answer to their Questions right from the Scratch Rudiments of Theism like...

Does God exist?.

Why should we believe and Worship God?...

Is it necessary every one should worship God? Can the deputation of Representatives on our behalf, solve our problems?...

If God exists, why so much of disparities and Sufferings in Life?

Why should we seek Salvation...Liberty from Rebirths...Why not make Earth a Paradise?

How to be HAPPIEST IN LIFE...taking the Best Advantage of Human-birth?

He could find it comfortable to answer .. based on Thiruvaaymozhi PRIMARILY... supported by Geetha and Awathara-Puranas Like Ramayana and Mahabharatha

Now let us look into his TEACHINGS TO HUMANITY... imbibed with Universal-Love.

(1) Being endowed with Greatest Intellectual might along with the Freedom of Mind-Power, Human-birth is the Supreme birth... ever on Earth, when compared to other inferior births like Animals, Insects and Worms. And it is the last Birth-opportunity in Kaliyuga to ENJOY MAXIMUM ON EARTH... when compared to other Creatures. So we must not lose this Best opportunity towards our Happiness and Purpose of birth.

(2) God-faith (Theism) is Vital for Humanity... since Human-birth only can take the best advantage of his hidden Soul-power too... the Fourth-power of Greatest might... in addition to Physical, Wisdom and Mind Powers.

(3) All the Several Religions are God-made... suiting to the respective sections of the Global Society...

... and propogated through His Venerable Prophets and so deserve to be mutually respected... with the Human-spirit of Unity under Diversity.

(4) God is One... whether you worship in different forms or shapes and deities... at your own will and choice....

... He is Narayana (Vishnu) who appears to you in the way and form as your Preceptor / Guru has taught you....

... But all the Divine-faiths and Holy-pursuits ultimately reach that One Omnipotent God...

...similar to several Rivers from different directions, sources and paths... ultimately reaching their common destination... the Ocean.

(5) Various Religions or Faiths of God-realisation... are meant for HUMAN-EMANCIPATION... and Advancements only...

...and not for Mutual Quarrel or Disputes

... or annihilation in the name of the Sacred God's paths of diversity...

... God of any Religion or Faith... will never be Happy nor encourage to see His own creations' Suicidal- approach...

...despite their Best opportunity as the MOST INTELLECTUAL HUMAN BIRTH...

... born to UNITEDLY ENJOY and COLLECTIVELY ADVANCE...

... with the Hearty Global Human- Spirit of Universal-Love.

... To Continue.
.