Khan Saheb Kamal Haasan's Jamaat/Jeba Koottam/Devasthaanam - Part 8

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Originally Posted by Plum

and have the exact same reaction as sathya and cinefan.

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Naan enna sonnen ippo???????????I presume my name is being referred to on the basis of my comments 3 years back after the UPO release and some random subsequent posts on this issue.

//dig Welcome back Plum-ji & sakala.. have a pleasant stay :p //end dig

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Originally Posted by raajarasigan

//dig Welcome back Plum-ji & sakala.. have a pleasant stay :p //end dig

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//ennappa... ECR resort receptionist yarayachum correct pannitteengalaa??

enakku nemba pudicha topicla discussion pOittu irukku...
mutthu mutthaa eludhirukkaanganu theriyudhu... aana neraya vaarthai/mozhi puriyala... kamal threadla irukkom... front benchers'kum edho puriyanum, elite'kum puriyara madhiri konjam layering use pannugna pls...
nee etthinaanglaas varikum padchirkka?? appo unakku vaeramaadhiridhaan sollonum..

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Originally Posted by SoftSword

//ennappa... ECR resort receptionist yarayachum correct pannitteengalaa??

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apdi illa.. thirumbavum pOiduvAngaLonnu thAn....

PR
I don't quite "feel" the caste identity is identical and implies/evokes the same things/reactions within the self, to begin with, that the other identities mentioned here evoke. They may have started as ways of life. What does caste mean *now*, having the baggage it has and causing the effects it has caused? By clinging on to that identity, what are we saying overtly/implicitly?

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Originally Posted by P_R

The question I always like to ask is - do we today feel a sense of affinity for a stranger of one's own caste. i.e. feel an affinity simply because he belongs to one's own caste (namma paya). Most of us feel no such thing. But for our parents, grandparents would have felt that way. The identity was more important to them.
And even in their case I allege, it was largely to do with how a certain caste dictated a way of life, even including education, exposure, employment etc.

Now, we all still judge people based on education, exposure, employment etc. But these are primary considerations and therefore caste is relegated to the background. i.e. we aren't "better" people than our previous generations. Just that the social relevance of caste has watered down.

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Get your point but i don't think it's a fair comparison at all (judging on education/exposure/employment being a replacement of juding by caste). It is a lesser evil way to judge. Class discrimination ellaam prachanai dhaan but adhukku apparam varuvom.

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Originally Posted by P_R

The way such a thing goes out of the window is by social irrelevance.

I will refrain from making the shaky argument that caste can persist without discrimination. That is not something I can say with certainty. But it is certainly true that over time there has been a great decoupling.

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I do think people feel an affinity even now. This generation. Which is why the identity itself must go, discrimination laam eppadiyo ooduruvidum nu thonudhu. I don't share your optimism when you say we have seen a great deal of decoupling. I get how different things are from the past but it is not good enough.

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Originally Posted by P_R

Ambedkar argues exceedingly well in his treatise "the Annihilation of Caste" that it is impossibly for caste to exist without discrimination. That, it is either a genuinely naive pipe-dream or intentionally duplicitous line of thinking to say caste can exist without discrimination.

And it had to go. Of course, being the thinker that he is, he saw caste for what it was - a social institution that rose from the ground over time- rather than as a cunning scheme whose sole purpose of existence was subjugation. And most importantly he observed that the urge to preserve caste identities is definitely not something top-down but across the board in the hierarchy.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by P_R

Personally, I don't think we will ever become like America, or for that matter those of Indian origin in other countries - who can't trace their ancestry back to more than 4-5 generations. It is only in such contexts of substantial absence of social history can caste 'vanish'. In our case, I think it will continue to exist, but what it means will keep changing.

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Agree

Yeah, read about this in the Indhu. Vaazhga baaradham :lol2:

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Originally Posted by P_R

btw naan solRa social irrelevance ellAm oru small sliver of the population-ku dhaan.
For most of the people caste oppressive reality - it has not gone anywhere, we can't remind ourselves enough of that.

Recently in Kammapatti, the local Kambalathu Nayakars stopped sending their children to school because the saththuNavu koodam was manned by Dalits. And so the government transferred the Dalit staff :shock:

The additional collector defended this discrimination by saying: 'this is a peculiar habit of that caste to not eat food cooked by other castes'. Check out this article - ignore the dumb title!

And mind you TN is one of the leading states when it comes to social mobility of Dalits. ingayE indha nilamai - with govt supporting discrimination to boot - then just imagine the situation in places in North Indies.

Remember Periyar came out of Congress, because they were using party funds to support the gurukulam in Cheranmadhevi, where permission was given to brahmin boys to dine privately, because their parents did not want them to dine in a samapandhi bOjanam. And that was in the 1920s!

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WB Sahala

Like SS, Enakkum ithu fav topic thaaan!

P_R's #826 post padicha appuram, ithellaam post paNNanumaannu thONuch! But, irunthaalum, pala nALA sollanumnu nenaichathu! Warning:- Sila points romba pazhasaa irukkalaam, "ithellaam ellaarukkume therinjathu thaane?!" kind!

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Originally Posted by sathya_1979

Why he should not? When he can "point-out" the pit-falls of his own - Portraying himself as a neutral (Atheist, Agnost etc) who condemns the pit-falls without bias to spread awareness / promote rationalism etc, why not Islam / Christianity / XYZ.....?

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Christianity, as said by P_R reg hey Raam, Varuvathaai sonnavar vanthathe illai...

Islam, Local, Indian rooted film edukkum bothu Local issues thaane solla mudiyum? Afghan Taliban's araajagangaL & Koran/Bible la lrukkura absurdities solla mudiyumaa? context irukkaathe.

I remember he wrote an article, Urainadai type of Poem in Vikatan long back, that is the eye opener for dumbs like me to tell that there is something called Holy War and how it started. Wiki la poi padicheengannaa mandai suthidum, antha loooooong historical, origins of Islam vs Christan clash pathi, surukkamaa, 3/4 pages la sollirunthaaru. Athellaam frame pottu maattaNum. anybody has it?!? So there, he talks about sins of historic Islam/Christian clashes.

UPO was just a remake but it thrown lots of controversies. Mostly, some irritation among Islam bloggers...

Our Joe has written about some of his dislikings UPO wrt to Islam characters, in his blog -> http://cdjm.blogspot.in/2009/09/blog-post_23.html.

Below is an article about few fellow Islam tamil bloggers got irked with Kamal's stance/dialogs in UPO and went ahead to meet kamal directly, and shot their questions, the meet was arranged via Director Ameer.

விமரிசனத்தை நேருக்கு நேர் நின்று கொண்டு எதிர் கொள்ளும் கமலஹாசன்

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கமல்ஹாசனுக்கு நெருக்கமானவரான திரைப்பட இயக்குநர் அமீரிடம் நமது கண்டனத்தைக் கூறி கமல்ஹாசனிடம் தெரிவிக்கக் கூறினோம். அதற்கவர் கமல்ஹாசன் இந்துத்வா சிந்தனை கொண்டவரில்லை. நீங்களே அவரை சந்தித்து விவாதியுங்கள் என்று கூறி கமல்ஹாசனுடன் சந்திப்புக்கு ஏற்பாடு செய்தார் 09.10.2009 அன்று நமக்கு ஒரு மணி நேரத்திற்கும் மேலாக ஒதுக்கித்தந்தார் கமல். வழக்குரைஞர் ஜெய்னுல் ஆபிதீன் மற்றும் ஜி.அத்தேஷுடன் 'முஸ்லிம் சமுதாயத்தின் மீதான ஊடக வன்முறை, உன்னைப் போல் ஒருவன் படம் தந்துள்ள பாதிப்பு'' ஆகியவை குறித்து விரிவாக உரையாற்றினோம். அந்த உரையாடலின் சில பகுதிகள்...
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/blog-post_19.html
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/2.html

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Originally Posted by sathya_1979

UPO remake, max few changesdhaan paNNa mudiyum. The point is abt own/ straight movies and thoughts shared in public

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வெட்னஸ்டே படத்தின் கதாநாயகன் நஸ்ரூதீன் முஸ்லிம் என்பதாலும், ஆரிஃப் என்ற ஒரு நல்ல முஸ்லிம் அதிகாரி காட்டப்படுவதாலும், இந்திப்பட உலகில் இப்படம் முஸ்லிம்களுக்கு எதிரானதாக பார்க்கப்படவில்லை.

நான், ஆரிஃப் என்ற பாத்திரத்தை நல்லவராகக் காட்டுவது மட்டும் போதாது என்று மேலும் பல மாற்றங்களைச் செய்தேன்.

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thanks Bala, SS, raajarasigan, this very short hiatus was useful :)