The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

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Originally Posted by Nakeeran

WAR RULES THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOLLOWED !
WHAT HAPPENED ACTUALLY WAS ABSOLUTE BREAKAGE OF WAR RULES
Lets go through the rules :

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Was there a rule like "only men of similar ranks can fight each other" ..? This point might justify why Dhuryodhan, The Great, sacked Bhishma when he refused to kill the Pandavas. If he was not going to, howelse Arjuna , The Menace could be killed in the war ?

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

Sudhama Sir, in a forum set-up, there could be others joining the thread with exactly opposite views. Some of the members can really be very assertive and may not be telling the truth according to others. But what is important is their sincerity of expression. And how sincerely others contend them. Sometimes the outcome will seem nothing but that may not be true. Each of us or the silent observers will carry home a balanced view which is what the outcome is. Even Buddha is said to have told not to argue with a contender, but you must remember he himself argued with rational explainations when the time came. His disciples also contended and waged intellectual wars in proper forum for reasons they believed was good.

My views may be different and you might feel they are perverted and am messed-up, but alas, be it, if that is what you think I am. But atleast I will know if any others share my views. This is what I expect in forums like this, at a minimum. Feeling connected.

That being said, I sincerely wish someone contends my views.

Raghu's thirst about Nakula and Sahadev have been quenched in your previous posts. His duty is to think proactively of other ideas to place in front of us.

Nakeeran is coming-up with great list war rules broken in Mahabharath. (Nakeeran, please also be able to tell us how the people of those days reacted when such rules were broken. Especially Sri Krishna's reactions).

So our job is to think proactively and keep issues at hand to discuss while simultaneously contending others' views.

In you we saw a person reacting and contending our views. And you ARE important here. If not you someonelse should play this role. Otherwise who are we talking to ? That is what I meant when I said "convince me". So you see, how we respect and need your presence ?

Kannannn rescues me when I was branded perverted and obnoxious element and not worthy of reply.

Badri, as usual refrains from taking sides as behaving as a true moderator.

You see, everyone's presence is vital here. More people the better. And contradictions=liveliness.

I unintentionally included one other contentious point to my long list that “Gita Upnanishad is a later-insert and not a part of Vyas Mahabharath”. It may be a belief out of ignorance, but explain otherwise so several others who are messed-up also know the truth. I am not here to "silence" or drive away others with my "assertions". I like them to be vocal so we can feel connected even though we might be thousands of miles apart physically.

If we do not contend with each other sincerely, any thread will be boring and die. Do other's agree ?

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<digression>
Good one pizza. Your sincerity is to be certainly appreciated and your views respected. :thumbsup:
<end digression>

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

Nakeeran is coming-up with great list war rules broken in Mahabharath. (Nakeeran, please also be able to tell us how the people of those days reacted when such rules were broken. Especially Sri Krishna's reactions).

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Pizzalot, I think you are looking for something in the Mahabharatam that traditionally Hindus do not see in it. You are looking at it as if it is a moral guide. I don't know how the northern-revivalist Hindu schools treat it, but in traditional orthodox Hinduism in Tamil Nadu at least it has not had that status. I come from a traditional Vaishnavite background. When we were children, we were taught to keep people like Alavandar, Kurattazhwar, Cherachakravarthi Kulasekara Perumal and other devotees as our role models. For every great devotee there was some quality we were taught to emulate, but we were never told to behave like Yudhistiran or Arjunan or Vimasenan.

For us the importance of the Mahabharata is not that its characters conduct shows morality but that the story as a whole holds many religious and spiritual truths. An itihasam comes in nyanakandam, not karmakandam. I think Badri pointed out that the Mahabharatam shows that in Kali Yuga nobody can be perfectly righteous, because everybody in the Mahabharata has their flaws. The deeper lesson in this is that righteousness based purely on the old texts of the Dharmasutras will by itself not get you beyond a point in the Kali Yuga. Ultimately, in the end even Duryodhanan can argue that he has lived by the letter of the shastras. The only true source of righteousness in the Kali Yuga is the righteousness that comes when you surrender completely to God and let him guide your conduct. For those who have not reached that stage, the only true guide is following the conduct of those who have. Because they did not do this the result of the Shastric conduct of the Pandavas and Kauravas was that they brought destruction on everybody around them including their subjects who they were supposed to protect. This is the only moral lesson that can be learnt from the conduct of the parties.

We do not look for moral lessons in the deeds of Sri Krishnaperumal. It is not like the role of Lord Buddha or the imitation of Christ. Their significance is different. We are taught that the two avatarams at the time of the Mahabharatam demonstrate the difference between an avataram for the earlier yugams and for the Kali yugam. Balaraman is the former - he is disgusted by the war and refuses to take part in it, and he condemns immoral conduct on both sides. But Krishnaperumal's conduct is different because his avataram is a manifestation of God's role in the Kaliyugam. The avataram is not understood from the revelation of the Gita or the killing of Kamsan, but by the moment when Krishnaperumal walks as a humble messenger to the Kauravas. For us this is a very profound revelation about the relationship between a soul and God when it takes refuge in God. Traditionally, we did not even look for moral lessons in the deeds of Sri Ramachandran though because of north Indian influence some now do. The captivity of Sitaiammal had more religious significance in the Ramayanam in traditional orthodox interpretation.

I do not like to discuss my religion here because it is very personal and it is not good to talk about it in a place like this, but since you have been asking these questions for a while I felt it would be rude not to try to answer. I hope I have not upset or offended anybody. Sorry.

[quote="dsath"]

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

[tscii]Sudhama Sir, in a forum set-up, there could be others joining the thread with exactly opposite views. Some of the members can really be very assertive and may not be telling the truth according to others. But what is important is their sincerity of expression. And how sincerely others contend them. Sometimes the outcome will seem nothing but that may not be true. Each of us or the silent observers will carry home a balanced view which is what the outcome is....

.. My views may be different and you might feel they are perverted and am messed-up, but alas, be it, if that is what you think I am.

But atleast I will know if any others share my views. This is what I expect in forums like this, at a minimum. Feeling connected.

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Dear Mr pizzalot,

Please look back my SUPPORTIVE STATEMENTS on your Opposite thoughts...

...which was UNWELCOME BY OTHERS HERE.... and after my Intervention... others kept silent, stopped opposing you... because of the personal regards they have on me.

How I had appreciated and defended your DIVERGENT VOICE... even though RADICALLY OPPOSITE to mine...

... as also CONTRARY TO TRUTH... please think awhile... before expressing DISPLEASURE ON ME NOW.

.. My vociferous objection... was and is... NOT ON YOUR OPPOSITE VIEWS...

...but your CHANGE OF DIRECTION... personalising the discussions ... as if others are bound to convince you... more than REFUTING on the matter.

Now You are coolly commenting as if I do not tolerate your Opposite Views or Stand.

Have I not thanked you, for giving us THUS a BETTER OPPORTUNITY to bring to light several hidden truth of high values?

Have I not appreciated for your INAUGURATING THE SECOND SESSION on this Topic?

Dear Pizzalot... Still I continue to be your well-wisher.. irrespective of your Views, Beliefs and Faith... as I am with others too here.

So I reiterate that I feel HURT by another point also... by your loose-comment... that Geetha was a subsequent insertion.

You are at Lioberty to raise your doubt if you feel so... and NOT AS A CONCLUSION... in this Common Forum.

Bhagawad Geetha is our GOSPEL...similar to Bible for Christians and Koran for Muslims.

So please DON'T INJURE US ANYMORE...even if you feel you are Correct to conclude so.

Please do not justify on such BLACK-SPOTS in the course of a Lively discussion.

I wish you to continue your discussions further... in a HEALTHY APPROACH...

...duly honouring the Sentiments of others empathetically

...even though DIVERGENT, CONTRADICTORY and COMBATIVE.
...

-deleted-

i read it in a weekly magazine..sorry if i had hurt anyone's feelings!

nakeera..u do a good job..continue!

Nilavu

I havent heard your version & hence I request other dfers to clarify you . OK :)

Pizzalot, I will certainly answer all your queries relating to the war . However, I am not a philosophical analyst / thinker & hence what is Dharma or adharma , I request the senior hubbers - Mr. Badri & Mr. Sudhama to chip in & share their thoughts !

After all, they have been the driving force to this thread all these days :D


While I could see arguments & counter arguments on several fronts within our dfers, I wish to proceed WITH MY MISSION - that of narrating the Day by Day account of the war & then look forward to some healthy discussion on that :D




The great Kurukshetra war lasted eighteen days.

The war was fought only during daylight hours and fighting ceased at sunset.

The armies met on a vast field in Kurukshetra and each day of the battle was characterised by numerous indiviual combats as well as mass raids against entire enemy divisions.

The victor or the vanquished on each day was determined not by any territories gained, but by the body count.

This was a war to the death.

The victor was the survivor.

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

Nakeeran, please also be able to tell us how the people of those days reacted when such rules were broken. Especially Sri Krishna's reactions).[/tscii]

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Pizzalot !

Straight answer to you here - SRI KRISHNA HIMSELF WAS THE CENTRIFUGAL FIGURE TO MOST OF THE WAR RULES GETTING BROKEN ( EITHER THROUGH CONVENTIONAL METHODS OR UNCONVENTIONAL METHODS )

In other words, what Krishna advised, was followed religiously by the Pandavas to annihilate their great arch rivals :D

However, I will explain at every stage , what Krishna did to change the course of the war & how the Pandavas followed his orders :D

Bye

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