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Mr.Sudhama, pls give an example in my post where I resort to name calling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
Where did I say that? Proof? The above sentences are very blind allegations/assumptions from your side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
We will get to the rest of the points later. First lets see if you ready for a mature discussion without inventing statements which i never used in the first place!!
Hi Mr. Sudhaama,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
I never believed in astrology. I don't think I will also.
But, I happened to go to a nadi jyothidar, who brought out an olai suvadi. The suvadi had poems which started with the names of my parents and number of siblings I have. This happened when I was young. Even though I was shocked by the accuracy of the prediction, I still cannot accept it. I actually want to know that how is this possible? Trying to figure out is it possible at all?
I have another question for you. The above example you have given, says that no matter what, if astrology says something, it would happen. Then what is the role of God? Is astrology is stronger than God? If so, why pray to God? If God is the ultimate, why go to an astrologer? If there is no God at all, where is the role of astrology?
My questions might sound silly to you. But, I have personally seen many families being ruined by the predictions of astrologers (irrespective whether it is true or false), including a very close friend of mine.
What is parigaram? If there is something called fate, how can parigaram rectify it? If something is rectifiable, why worry?
Why are there different kinds of astrology, chinese astrology, astrologies based on Sun signs and moon signs? Will all these astrology predict the same thing for a particular person? Since everybody claims that theirs is the most accurate, how does it make sense?
When we watch programs on tribes living in different part of the world, we are able to apprciate that their practises are superstitious believes, while it comes to our own, why is it different? I happened to watch a program about African tribes in TV. They predict if the marriage between two people will be successful are not by killing cows and looking for the direction of intestine. Since the intestine was clockwise in direction instead of anti-clockwise, they kept postponding the marriage and killing one cow after the other because the couple were desperate to get married. Finally one cow made their desire come true by losing its life. Does it not sound stupid to you? Can you please comment on this?
One more thing, since time of birth depends on what ever the doctor or the midwife says (it is not that easy to watch the clock always, especially when the doctors have lot other things to worry about while the delivering a baby, so, there is always one or two minutes error) and what ever that particular wall-clock says (not all clocks show the same time, there will be atleast seconds to minutes difference), how will that be accurate? What about different time zones in the world? Won't the time conception (becoming pregnant) be more accurate than the time of birth? And this is impossible to tell and hence not useful either. If that is the case, why break our head believing what the astrologers told, when the time of birth could be wrong in most of the situations.
I am asking you only because you have lived long enough to analyse these facts. You will be a better person to talk on behalf of these astrologers.
Thanks.
ilavenil,
// I never believed in astrology......"" I don't think I will also""........//
These words are irritating.. Especially the latter part....Why do you tell me whether you believe or don't believe it...You need not believe it too..And what anybody has to bother about your personal likes and dislikes ... tastes and distastes... which are your personal affairs... Why should anybody need to know ? And why you should you reveal it uncalled for ?
"I don't think I will "... what do you want to convey by this ? .. Your locked-mind (opposite to Open-mindedness) to consider anything even it be based on Reasoning???..
. rather you mean.... you are an ADAMANT person.. OBSTINATE? .. May or May Not be? What does it matter to me or to anybody capable of replying you?
Because we the persons posting our experiences here...are neither the Preachers nor the Professionals to get the benefit from publicising here our knowledge on it.
I have adequate rich experience as a CLIENT / CONSUMER ... dealt with several Astrologers, and Nadi-Astrologers too... and will be able to reply any sensible question in a common man's angle.
But your lack-lustre method of raising the points and starting the matter in an irritating manner... with such an opening remark... you expect me to enthusiastically clear your doubts... !!
Dear Madam, will anybody feel like answering you... if you start like this .. SELF-CENTRED ? However....
I wonder whether you have gone through my earlier posting fully ... paying full attention.
I think you have skipped off the below-mentioned which I copying and posting again for your convenience,
Before I proceed further... please go through my below-mentioned already clarifying your doubts
.//. But Astrology is not the Account of FATE... destined to face....
Since it is only the Balance-Sheet ... with which a person has landed on Earth at the time of Birth.
And so should be taken as a Guideline ... to build up on it...nullifying the chances of getting trapped .... being caught unaware.
Had these persons taken advantage of Astrology... they need not have suffered at all ... knocking the Door of Hell...of such a grave End. //
If you further need any further elaboration... please raise your doubts... I will reply.
Sorry Sir,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
I don't know to lie or hide my views. I actually wanted to learn from you. But, looks like I was wrong. Thanks any way.
It is really funny that you justify Jothidar Thilagam Parthasarathy's suicide in Case 1 but in Case 2, you are blaming the suicide victim for not listening to his astrologer!!! :lol: :lol: This is really hilarious!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
:lol2: :lol2:
And I know many cases where people benefited by not listening to astrology!! When I was born(a Friday) an astrologer told my parents that it was very unlucky for a family to have a boy born on a Friday(it seems Friday is best for girls and Saturday best for boys according to this Einstein!). My parents never had anything against me for this(NO PARENT WILL!) and I am glad I have made my parents glad on several occasions, though it may be less than 5% of what they have done for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
When I was attending computer classes a decade back, there was a brilliant young student in my class, also a Friday born. This brilliant teenager was handicapped in the knee and had to painfully bend for each step. His problem was unique that he had to bend for each step, there was no way of using a crutch or stick. I used to accompany him after class to bus stop(he has to take 2 buses to reach home). Often the bus would take off before he could limp to the steps and board the bus :( He was top 3 in his B.Sc class(it was impossible for his condition to travel to an engineering college on the outskirts) and in 3rd year was placed in a top software company, ranking 2nd out of 75 students in the selection test :thumbsup: [Though I dont like the material culture/love affairs/corruption in software companies, I am really glad that the software world gives a chance for all handicapped people to follow their dreams! :thumbsup:
And instead of treating physically challenged people as special human beings like us, the inhuman astrologers will tell you it's because of the stars or planetary positions or failure of parents to do parikarams!!! :x :x :x
Astrologers secretly desire people to have a fear psychosis - only then they can prosper!! They will never desire the well being of people. A positive confident minded person will have absolutely no fear over his future.
Consider this :
No IIT student's dad will spend 1 naya paise on an astrologer over his son's future job!
Whereas the dad of a guy who cleared SSLC in 3 attempts will spend 1000s every year to ascertain his son's future!!
The difference is in confidence :D And the more fear you generate, the more customers you get. If astrologers really care for the wellbeing of their customers, why cant they give out advice for free??
They are merely Onaaigal feasting on dead bodies!! The more people dying out of fear, the happier they will be :x :x
I guess it all has to do with which kinds of astrologers you run into.
There are astrologers, and then there are astrologers. Yes, a great many guys are the types Vivek would parody in his comedy scenes. But, that does not provide justification to dimiss the wisdom with the so-called wise.
There is a deep-rooted idea in the minds of many Indians that anything that has to do with ancient Indian culture and traditions is probably blindly supersitious. It is a wrong notion, undoubtedly, but one that has gained currency due to the amazing levels of misuse by our so-called practitioners of the ancient arts.
People have always been curious about the future - especially the ones that are too lazy to get results by working towards them. Naturally, they look for a method to peek into the future, and this natural foible gives rise to many a conman. Guess a lot of people would have heard the common phrase, "Vashistar Joshiyam"...meaning, Sage Vasishta was the astrologer who fixed the date of Rama's coronation, a coronation which happened 14 years later. So much for astrology!
However, that said, we must also realize that sometimes, the fault may not lie with the science but its practitioners. If a doctor goofs up, it is he to be blamed, not the medical science. To take a scientific view towards astrology, one needs to first know about it, have adequate data to support/refute it and only then comment. All of us have one or two instances and we tend to theorize based on that. Just as good friend hehewalrus has had a few instances of wrong prediction, another sobsobpenguin might have a few instances of absolutely accurate prediction. Does it prove then that astrology is a perfect science? No more than hehewalrus's experience disproves it.
I think we must keep an open mind, as Sudhama has requested us to do, and then view the subject. If we are not going to approach it objectively, little can be gained by any amount of discussions. The learning would instead become arguing. And as I am sure all of us know, no one wins an argument!
okay, as a mum of two and reader of umpteen books on conception and pregnancy, I would like to answer Ilavenil's statement/query that the time of conception is much more accurate or words to the effect.
Well, according to most bio. books, fertilisation could occur anytime within 72 hours of coitus, because that's how long a sperm could survive in the female's reproductive tract. So that being the case, there's really no way of predicting when conception takes place, Pa.
Badri,
:clap:
That is exactly what I was trying to say in simple terms, Nirosha. May be I didn't express my self properly. We cannot predict the time of conception, which would be the most accurate time to take into consideration (provided that the astrology predictions are true). But, since we cannot predict the time of conception and since making note of time of birth is not that accurate due to observer's bias, why depend on astrologers?Quote:
Originally Posted by nirosha sen
There are no two astrologers who predict the same. Like hehehewalras said, it all depends on how confident you are, how strong your will power is, how tough you are. No matter what the astrologer says, it all depends "YOU". I am not saying that nothing is impossible. But, the probability of something becoming possibile depends on the person who does it.
It is only when you feel like you are losing, failing, you actually approach an astrologer other than when marriages are fixed. Astrologers can easily read you face than your horoscope.
I have seen marriages which have fallen apart, though there was 10:10 porutham confirmed by many astrologers. When asked why, astrologers still said that is impossible, but, what to do, no body could save those marriages. Well I don't think any love marriage couples would have had their horoscope checked. But, I am pretty sure that when something goes wrong, their horoscope would be the first to be blamed.
I do accept that astrology may be correct, that too, just because I don't know about it. But to say that it is a science is not correct. Science is purely based on evidence. Science is reproducible at all circumstances. Even if astrology is proven to be correct, no question that astrologers are taking advantage of that.
If an astrologer can predict his own fate and rectify it (by doing pariharam), he wouldn't be an astrologer any more.
Astrology is a science?
hmm, thats a good question.
1. It does involve a lot of precision mathematics.
2. It does involve a high degree of probability study.
3. It does involve observation of planets and their transition and hence allied to astronomy.
4. It also involves documentation of observations in a clean and effective manner.
5. It does involve communication of observation and analysis in a standard manner (ala UML or HTML) .
6. It definitely has taken to the internet and mobiles like an iron filing to a magnet.
But is it a science?
My opinion is YES&NO , both.
However can astrology be taken as a guide or a leading light in one's life. My opinion NO. If you believe in human effort , then go ahead and as Nike says it, "Just Do It". If you believe in a human effort blessed by GOD, then pray and go ahead and just do it. If you are a vedantin mumuksha (a true student of vedanta), you know that whatever is going to happen is of little importance to the atma or the soul and keep doing what you are destined to do. So in all cases, astrology never comes into picture. It is the half believers usually who take astrology as a guidance. My father is a good astrologers , but he has never predicted anything for me, not that he doesn't care, just that he wants me to find out life myself. A good astrologer never gives an overridingly imposing order to prevent a future eb\vent. He only provides tendencies of events and their probablity. It is up to the consumer to interpret it as good or bad. Just a simple tool to choose the least path of obstruction or to prepare the mind for some obstruction ahead. However, what is done by astrology can be done otherwise as well. In my personal and humble opinion, one can be interested in Astrology for the math it has, or for character analysis (observe people and see how much they conform to the general traits as portended by their chart). If you are looking for a guidance spiritually, monetarily or for work, forget it. It would be just a waste of time.