Ilaiyaraaja - The Singer

Good points, everybody..I notice one disconnect though..all of us in favor of IR as singer for TIS, are speaking from a personal opinion/experience with IR's voice. So my question is directed towards venkiram - what is your feeling regarding IR's singing in TIS ? Did it move you, did it prompt you think about some philosophical issues ? Whether another singer would have been more successful or not is probably secondary. (this is inspired by Usha's valid point - unarvu poorvamaana experience with IR's music).

எந்தவித கலாபூர்வமான முயற்சிக்கும் அது சென்றடையக்கூடிய மக்கள் யார் யார் என்ற வரையறை இருக்கவேண்டும். ராஜாவின் மேற்கத்திய இசையில் திருவாசக முயற்சி யார் யாருக்கெல்லாம் சென்றடைந்திருக்க வேண்டும்? ஏன் ஒரு அற்புதம் நிகழவில்லை? எது தடையாக இருந்தது?

என் சிற்றறிவுக்கு எட்டியவகையில் ராஜா எல்லாப் பாடல்களையுமே தானே பாடலாம் என்ற அணுகுமுறையே அதன் வணிக எல்லையை சுருக்கிவிட்டதென நினைக்கிறேன். என்னடா, வணிகம், வணிகம் என பேசுகிறானே என நினைக்கவேண்டாம். அப்படியாவது இன்னும் கொஞ்சம் தமிழர்கள் கூடுதலாக கேட்டு பரவசமடைய மாட்டார்களா என்ற ஆதங்கம் தான்.

எல்லா கலைஞர்களுக்கும் ஒரு ரசிகர்கள் கூட்டம் இருக்கிறது. மற்ற பாடகர்களை ஒப்பிடும்போது ராஜாவின் குரலுக்கான ரசிகர்கள் கூட்டம் வெகுஜனங்களின் மத்தியில் மிகவும் சிறியது என்றே நினைக்கிறேன். முக்கியமாக அவர் தனியாக பாடும் பாடல்களை குறிப்பிடுகிறேன். ராஜா இதை கணக்கில் கொண்டு, எல்லோரும் தகுந்த பாடல்களை வழங்கி வெளியிட்டிருந்தால், ஒருவேளை அற்புதம் நிகழ்ந்திருக்கலாம்.

இங்கே ராஜாவால் மட்டுமே பாடலுக்கான உணர்வைத் தரமுடியும் என்றெல்லாம் நண்பர்கள் சொல்லும் கருத்தினை படிக்கும் போது ஒன்றும் பெரிதாக தோன்றவில்லை. உதாரணத்திற்கு ஒருவேளை ராஜா தேசபக்தி பாடல்களை ஒரு ஆல்பமாக வழங்கியிருப்பாரானால், அப்போதும் "ராஜாவால் மட்டுமே நிகழ்த்திக் காட்டக் கூடிய ஒன்று, நாட்டுப்பற்றுணர்வு அவரைத் தவிர வேறு யாருக்கும் வராது" எனச் சொல்லியிருப்பார்கள்.

Venkkiram Sir, you still have not answered by questions ? Let everybody know where you personally stand on your liking towards IR's voice. There is no point in discussing about his voice when you personally think it is no "great shakes".

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

எந்தவித கலாபூர்வமான முயற்சிக்கும் அது சென்றடையக்கூடிய மக்கள&#3யார் யார் என்ற வரையறை இருக்கவேண்டும். ராஜாவின் மேற்கத்திய இசையில் திருவாசக முயற்சி யார் யாருக்கெல்லாம் சென்றடைந்திருக்க வேண்டும்? ஏன் ஒரு அற்புதம் நிகழவில்லை? எது தடையாக இருந்தது?

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Your point - any artistic effort should consider the target audience. First I dont agree. This is done mainly for products. Anyways, with TIS, raaja knew there might not be any commerical value, that is why it was funded with public money. He probably thought once people see the output it will pick up and the money can be recouped (or it should not have been funded with borrowed money as the organizers claim). The format is an extension of some fine versions of film music and raaja might have thought people will take to it with some effort. BTW, even if you are ok with the music format, the lyrics takes some effort to understand.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

என் சிற்றறிவுக்கு எட்டியவகையில் ராஜா எல்லாப் பாடல்களையுமே தானே பாடலாம் என்ற அணுகுமுறையே அதன் வணிக எல்லையை சுருக்கிவிட்டதென நினைக்கிறேன். என்னடா, வணிகம், வணிகம் என பேசுகிறானே என நினைக்கவேண்டாம். அப்படியாவது இன்னும் கொஞ்சம் தமிழர்கள் கூடுதலாக கேட்டு பரவசமடைய மாட்டார்களா என்ற ஆதங்கம் தான்.

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Your point - that IR's voice limited commercial appeal. THis is just your opinion and you are not making a good attempt in substantiating this. I myself have given one reason (that the WCM aspect of it was not appreciated).

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

எல்லா கலைஞர்களுக்கும் ஒரு ரசிகர்கள் கூட்டம் இருக்கிறது. மற்ற பாடகர்களை ஒப்பிடும்போது ராஜாவின் குரலுக்கான ரசிகர்கள் கூட்டம் வெகுஜனங்களின் மத்தியில் மிகவும் சிறியது என்றே நினைக்கிறேன். முக்கியமாக அவர் தனியாக பாடும் பாடல்களை குறிப்பிடுகிறேன். ராஜா இதை கணக்கில் கொண்டு, எல்லோரும் தகுந்த பாடல்களை வழங்கி வெளியிட்டிருந்தால், ஒருவேளை அற்புதம் நிகழ்ந்திருக்கலாம்.

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Your point - raaja's voice does not have a fan following. Since this is a fact that can be substantiated with facts I can say, raaja as a singer has more commercial value than other singers you have mentioned. If you go by his salary for singing or by the number of producers who still fund movies with his voice this can be proven easily.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

இங்கே ராஜாவால் மட்டுமே பாடலுக்கான உணர்வைத் தரமுடியும் என்றெல்லாம் நண்பர்கள் சொல்லும் கருத்தினை படிக்கும் போது ஒன்றும் பெரிதாக தோன்றவில்லை. உதாரணத்திற்கு ஒருவேளை ராஜா தேசபக்தி பாடல்களை ஒரு ஆல்பமாக வழங்கியிருப்பாரானால், அப்போதும் "ராஜாவால் மட்டுமே நிகழ்த்திக் காட்டக் கூடிய ஒன்று, நாட்டுப்பற்றுணர்வு அவரைத் தவிர வேறு யாருக்கும் வராது" எனச் சொல்லியிருப்பார்கள்.

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Your point - that the posters here would insist that raaja is the right singer for a hypothetical Patriotic album, is purely hypothetical.
There are so many people here who feel certain film songs should not have been sung by him. Maybe these people will say "why did IR sing this ?"
Anyways, Usha had a point about IR trying to train the professional singers to sing TIS, it would have been quite a training task and am pretty a lot would have been lost in that communication. It is a given in the western world today or in the olden days of our country that you write the lyrics, compose and sing it yourself. IR does this for some film songs, most of his bhakthi songs and he "internalised" thiruvaasagam before he sang it. (only other MD who can write and compose tunes is TR I think, who had a good run with his music and movies)

Venkiram ,

Marubadiyum koorugiren.

TIS il arpudham nigazhadharku kaaranam

- IR in composition dhan.

hahhaha...

podhuma.........

TIS in composition ai purindhu kollla

7 jenmam pathadhu.........

Nam arivuku yettaya oru isaiyil varavillai TIS.

ADhaiyum thaandiya oru vagaiyil veli vandhu
irukiradhu.



Eppodhum IR isaiyai patri ondru solven - Avarudiaya
isai - Maths madhiri.

Maths purindhal - adhai pola easy and interesting
subject veru kedaiyadhu.

puriyadhu ponal - adhai pola oru kashtamana oru subject veru kedaiyadhu.

indha TIS - Nammudiaya MATHS SIR - IR idam irundhu
kidaitha HOME WORK.


Adhu dhan miga periya kaaranam.

indha isai purindha andru,
purindhu kondavargalai - indha TIS
album - avargalidam poi serum.

Idhai parka neeyum, naanumae iruka matom venkiram.

All the songs sung by isainyani are hitto hit.
tat too i like "nethu orutara orutara partan" and "huttu naan vidava" songs very much. He is not great music director also in singing :notworthy:

kiru, vidunga. Adam pidikiraaru :)

Kiru :thumbsup:

I don't think it's difficult to see the POV of Venkkiram :-)

This is exactly THE ISSUE with the whole project - conflict of interests.

On side A we have IR, though phenomenally gifted musician, has another side of strong philosophical / supposedly-spiritual convictions. While he can work just for inflow of money / commercial purposes most part of the year, he equally has an urge to quench his spiritual thirst. Submitting to music and to super-powers with music as a medium possibly defines the non-commerical side of him and there's every indication that he wanted to do this with TbI (piRavippayan, oor koodi seiyyaNum, going-out-of-the-way-to-seek-donations etc).

On side B, we have groups of people who have entirely different sets of objectives, far removed from side A - popularising his music worldwide, getting a symphony from him - at least get another HTNI kind of non-filmi stuff, move him away from doing kuppai movies all the time, get him international recognition etc were possibly the motives of rasigarkaL who worked for this; making a name / popularilty for TM, possibly harnessing it to an international powerhouse using a popular musician who is emotionally connected with Thamizh people worldwide was possibly the motive of that org; and there were others - those in the biz - recording artists, group singers, disc companies, disti's etc who wanted to get some work / money out of the whole project.

Since all those involved in this are pretty intelligent people (including IR), I'm sure they knew this conflict and were possibly confident that they could still manage and succeed meeting all the objectives. From the 100's of pages that I read in the hub, this is my understanding.

Now, what are the results?

1. Musically it was a phenomenal success (I'm not just taking the view of fan-hubbers who are madly in love with the album, but opinions from many musically knowledgeable people - some unsolicited and some by those who stood in no way to gain from sthuthifying IR - like late Sujatha & ARR for e.g.)

2. Reaching Thamizh people - moderate amount of success. There were distribution issues, not getting a good label etc but still the kind of awareness / reach for an album like this at the time of release was unseen before, IMSO

3. Reaching non-Thamizh people - It got dumped in the early phase of project itself, read (4) below

4. Monetary aspects - Though it's never possible for projects like this to know the "true and correct" details, just going by internet accounts / claims / pulambals etc, this is the failure part IMO :

-it was never financially managed properly, not because of dishonesty, but because people lacked expertise in estimating / budgetting. Lack of knowledge about what will the total varavu v/s what could possibly be the selavu. The simple example is initial plan for many languages and then dropping off - having a few English lines that only provides some "fun" element but nothing serious, all possibly due to late-recognition-of-non-availability-of-funds etc.

-lack of balance in allocating resources, IMO. Getting some U.S. writer to pen a few lines at phenomenal cost, processing / mastering abroad while nearly the same quality can be achieved at a fraction of a cost in India etc. Ofcourse BSO was required but not every piece of the "foreign thingy". Come on, every one is oursourcing to India and this project did the reverse :-)

-Avoidable "interest" costs, if reported loans were taken :-( Another budgetting / planning mess

-Record company / label / disti, I think this was possibly the only place where IR too wasn't blameless (possibly he jumped in seeing how inexperienced the project managers were and making a mess of it, possibly afraid that this could go the Symphony#1's way).

I think people other than Venkkiram don't care much about 3,4 but satisfied with 1 and may care a little bit of 2.

And Venkkiram, IMO, regardless of the lead singer, the results would have been same for 3 & 4, may be worse because of the costs involved.

And it could have been worse for 1 & 2 too, or may be better, but that's only opinion / speculation and anybody's guess.

Question to Venkkiram :

Do you really think SPB / KJY were still creating magic at the time of TbI release? I don't think so. They were / are clearly past their prime.

And most of the successful singers after them don't have ANY qualification to sing even an average Thamizh song, let alone some ancient litt :-(

What's the big deal, all the tracks should still be intact, try like "pichchaippAththiram", TbI with other singers, and see what happens :-)