Some Buddhist scholars claim that Tirupati Balaji was originally a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, some Jain scholars claim that it was a Jain temple.
Can anybody throw a light on this issue?
-Mahavir
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Some Buddhist scholars claim that Tirupati Balaji was originally a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, some Jain scholars claim that it was a Jain temple.
Can anybody throw a light on this issue?
-Mahavir
why stop there?
some also claim that it was a Murugan temple. :roll:
riches attract attention like sugar attracts flies. :evil:
Kripananda Variar , while narrating Kanda puranam ( in casette ) has also clearly mentioned once that it was originally a Muragan temple only !Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
Hope you believe in Kripananda Variar . Such a learned / renowned person will not utter something silly .
Rightly said NOV! :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
Nakeeran,
What was ur thought on discussions abt the Taj Mahal being a Shiva Temple? :huh:
If I remember correctly, it was something like..."Let the Satus Quo remain...there's no need to research this stuff" or something....Then why r u suddenly arguing abt this? :) Same Logic Right? :huh:
Friends,
Tholkappiyam Payiram(CE100-200) refers Tirupathi as border to Tamilnadu, as Vada Venkatam.
Silapathikaram 240-300CE, refers clearly Srirangam as Kidantha kolam and Tirupathi as Nindra kolam for Perumal
I Do not remember any other worthy reference for any other wat.
Friends,
Venkatam- as Tholkappiyama Payiam uses normally means Place where God Venkatesa lives.
Uppuma
Wonderful post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavirchavan
Well, it is believed that the Tirupathi Balaji temple is a Murugan temple. I don't want to kick any row by this. It is no Buddhist or Jain temple.
The Moolavar has the Vel but is covered by the Silver/Gold plates and the Naamam is put. Actually if you see the face of the Moolavar, it has a child like face and it correlates to Murugan. This is the first point. Secondly, note that Murugan temples are always found on the hill. The Tirupathi Balaji temple doesn't have any Abhishegam shown to the devotees just because the idol has a VEL and is Murugan. They do the Abhishegam and cover off the idol's vel with silver/gold plates and put a naamam to the idol to show that it is indeed Balaji.
It is also believed that during the AP - TN state partition, AP were demanding for Chennai but Rajaji told that TN needs Chennai and gave Tirupathi to AP.
There are also various controversial stories (strong ones) going around but am not posting it here because some may not like it.
Whatever it is, ALL GODS ARE ONE. We are and should be happy by having a glimpse of the ALMIGHTY.
But again, I am worried about some controversial news coming now and then in and around Tirumala and Tirupathi.
Leo Simha
The archakas ( temple priests ) who perform day to day pooja are from Tamilnadu only till date !
See, its just few hours from Thiruthani , another abode of Lord Karthikeya. Renigunta is just the 3rd or 4th station of AP after it crosses Puthoor .
Damn sure. It belonged to Madras Rajdani once but went to AP once the state was formed.
yes friend Nakeeran, The archakas/temple priests are from Srirangam (Trichy) and are called Bhattars. There are also news related to Srirangam Ranganathaswamy idol (Utsavar - made of Gold) taken to Tirupathi during the then invasion of one Mughal Emperor down south. Then the rest is history. The Tirumala Murugan temple became history by turning into Tirumala Balaji temple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
Among the 12 Alwars, Periyazhwar, Andal, Kulasekarazhwar, Thiruppanazhwar, Thirumazhisaiazhwar, Poigaiazhwar, Bhoothathazhwar, Peyazhwar, Nammazhwar and Thirumangaiazhwar have done mangalasasanam in Thirumala.
Poigaialwar - 10 paasurams.
Boothathalwar - 9 Paasurams.
Peialwar - 19 Paasurams.
Perialwar - 7 Paasurams.
Andal - 16 Paasurams.
Thruppaan alwar - 2 Paasurams.
Kulasekaralwar - 11 Paasurams.
Thirumazhisaialwar - 14 Paasurams.
Nammalwar - 52 Paasurams.
Thirumangaialwar - 62 Paasurams.
Total - 202 Paasurams.
The timing of the first three Alwars is during late 5th and early 6th centuries A.D. So was this a Murugan shrine before that? Silapathikaram makes a reference to Thirumala and is timed even earlier than 5 AD. Was it "converted" even before that then?
:roll:
Friend Badri,Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
Wonderful historical timeline. Yes we need to take into account these also. But I would like to put these points also (Please note that I am not saying that this is the proof and to completely believe in it.) It is just a historic peice of information and we need to decide and research a lot before coming to a conclusion.
We have read many historics facts being distorted for their own benefits. What I heard is the same from Tirumala/Tirupathi historic facts being distorted to suit them so that nobody questions them later. In this way, the controversy will die down.
Infact, we have historics like Ramayan and Mahabharath where we get a gist of the information but not the totality of the same.
With this, I don't want to claim that Tirumala/Tirupathi Balaji indeed is a Murugan Temple. But there are some valid questions arising as to how many Balaji temples are found on the hills. People point out that only Tirumala/Tirupathi Balaji temple is the only one where Balaji resides on the HILL.
But Murugan is synonymous with HILL.
When you say Balaji, I assume you mean Vishnu/Perumal/Thirumal.Quote:
Originally Posted by leosimha
There are quite a few temples of Perumal that are situated on a hill.
Kanchipuram is one such. The lord is called Hastigirinathan or the lord of the elephant hill.
Thiruneermalai is another example.
All Narasimha shrines, including Ahobhilam and Thirukadigai (Sholingar), are atop hills
Thirumeyyam Satyagirinathan is again on the hill.
Badrikashramam (Badrinath) is on the mountains
Saligramam is on the mountains
I guess what I am saying is that examples abound of Perumal kovils being atop hills. While Murugan maybe synonymous with hills, that alone doesn't make for enough evidence.
Friend Badri,Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
yes...these are some of the doubts which arise....but if you take the Balaji/Vishnu temples listed by you, those are related to the Avatars...
again Balaji temple at Tirumala is related to an avatar of MahaVishnu, Srinivasa Perumal....again the historians have distorted the facts which we don't know what to believe or not to believe...
I am not sure if you read all the examples Badri ayya gave! Thiruneermalai is a temple to Mahavishnu. So is Thirumeyyam. And Badrinath. And Saligramam (Muktinath).Quote:
Originally Posted by leosimha
There were also other major hill-temples to Vishnu in the North. The famous Iron Pillar at Delhi, for example, was originally the Dvajasthambha for the great temple at Vishnupadagiri built by the Guptas.
Tirupathi is by no means unique as a temple to Vishnu built on a hill!
Mr. Podalangai,Quote:
Originally Posted by podalangai
In the south(long time ago), The Father of Tamizh, Lord Subramanya a.k.a Murugan was and is the devotee for many South Indians and especially his temples were to found on HILLs only.
i ve really heard this ............. :roll: romba varushamaa irukku Tirumala temple ....adula ippadi ellam eppadi claim panraanga ... is there any proof ?Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
.
Quite interesting... and some Funny too.!
Our Friends Mr NOV and Mr. Badri have posted well meaningfully.
Can Hill location give preferencial qualificaton for Muruha?
Not only several Vishnu temples.. but also Siva Temples too are situated on the Hills...
...for exampe the Sundaresa Temple at Kovoor, sung by Thyagaraja...
... the famous Kedarnath temple on the Himalayan mountains.
What a loose talk... One friend here means to say, that the Original Muruha deity along with his Vael, has been mischivously concealed ...
.. and that his Abhishekam is forbidden for worship.!!
Friends... all these can be verified by anybody in person.
Abhishekam on every Friday is open to one all the Hindu devotees, when you can see with your open eyes... No hide of Muruha nor his Vael.
On what basis... this resurrected claim for Muruha now?
There is one Theertham (Natural Water-tank) on the same hills... named KUMARA-DHARA.. from where lord Muruha worshipped Venkateswara and sang in praise of him.
That Sthothra has been published by TTD.
And Can it be justified to call Venkateswara as Muruha... based on the location on the Hill.?..
... as argued hereabove by some of our friends.
And some claim... that His Left hand appears as if holding a Vael. Perhaps might have been removed.!
Well. My dear friends... see in any Muruha Temple... Does Muruha holds his palm beneath his Knees?... Is it possible to hold a Vael at such a Low level?
And please notice at Thirumalai Venkateswara. Does it appear to be a closed fist... with just enough gap to hold a Vael?...
..whereas the whole palm is open... keeping ALL FINGERS STRAIGHT.. and four Fingers Horizontal...
Can this posture suit for holding anything on Hand?... even it be just a rod?
And taking it as granted... that the Left Hand is the Vael-holding hand...
...what about the other hand, Right palm directing downwards.?... what does it mean for Muruha?
Why there is Nagabaranam on His Hands?... Does Muruha wears such an Ornament... except Lord Siva?
And why there is a sculptural part of Lakshmi and Bhoomi-devi carved on his Chest?... Has Muruha any such significance.?
Sanku Chakras are parts of the Sculpture.. with no marks of Addendum.
Do all these speak of Muruha?
Dear Friends if and when you are puzzled or confused...
...you better consult with well-knowledged persons who are quite competent enough...
... to answer undisputably all the possible subsequent questions too convincing to Commonsense... and Wisdom.
I am writing in detail clarifying on such puzzling questions on Venkateswara... in one of the paragraphs..
...under my Tamil Serial article THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.. in our monthly Hub Magazine.
Those who are interested are welcome to read and comment.
Then what and who is this so called Balaji Venkateswara at Thirumalai Hills?
He is VENKATA-KRISHNA...named Govinda... presenting the same Darsana to us...
... as he showed to Arjuna as AIKYA-KRISHNA... during Geethopadesa...
... by One UNIFIED FORM comprising of all the Vedic Gods within one shape of Krishna..
..who showed SYMBOLICALLY to Arjuna... alongwith his Gospel... named Charama slokam...
...One Hand showing his holy feet... another Hand showing the Knee-depth of Life Ocean.. to mean...
..."Oh my dear Devotees,.. Don't worry (I am here to protect and save you from your Life-Ocean)...
...if you surrender to ME ONLY... leaving off all yours including your problems at my Feet..
.. I will reduce the huge depth of your Life-Ocean... just upto the Knee- depth...
...so that you need not struggle to swim anymore.for survival..
..but can easily WALK THROUGH... your Life Successfully by my Grace.
.
கண்ணனோ கந்தனோ.. அவர் நமக்கு கண்கண்ட தெய்வம். அது போதாதா ?
Superbly written, sudhama.
Some say that the idol is basically that of an Amman & the large thiruman on the Lord's face is priimarily to mask this.
Also, seems there is a idol of amman in the shrine.
Many have heard that there was a dispute as to whether the idol was of Vishnu or Shiva & that it was Sri Ramanuja who resolved the dispute.
There are claims that Sri ramanuja took the form of a serpent at night, placed the sanghu & chakra & "proved" that the idol is indeed Vishnu.
Please give the correct version for the above incident also.
It is extremely hurting for an udaiyavar devotee like me.
Dear Smith,
From whatever I have learned so far from the Great Ramanujacharya... He preached devotion... To Vishnu for whoever believed(s) in him, to Shiva for whoever believed(s) in him, etc. Such a great being who has realized that there is only one ParamAthama couldn't have done such a thing as ultimatly whatever the "means" the "goal" is the same.
So attributing such an act to Ramanujacharya would be as if comparing him with that fanatic king (Kulothunga Chozha).
I don't know if you even have to try to answer such questions...
Vasanth.
:yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by madhu
.
. INVITED to ENJOY Reading.! and COMMENT Please.!!
Those who can read Tamil... are invited to read my Serial Article :
...THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI... in our Hub Monthly Magazine.
...which is written with a Broad-outlook... in the true Sense and Spirit of Thiruvaaymozhi...
...in a NON-SECTARIAN Approach... acclaimed to be QUITE INTERESTING to even any common man... as per Feedback so far.
Being a very simple style... coupled with several stories or events related to the Topic.. it must be interesting to you too.
Invariably each Article of the month contains some Life-episodes, Events and Stories too... in relation to the Topic.
And in every monthly Article... there is one Paragraph on Thirupathi Venkateswara... Questions and Answers in the Commonman's angle.
With matching Pictures and Audio URLs... I believe... YOU ALL WILL LIKE IT ?
Am I correct?... Is it interesting to You?... Any Doubts and Comments are Welcome.
I am anxious to reply.... WELCOME Please.
August 07 issue.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug07/?t=10166
Thanking you with Best Wishes...
Affectionately.... Your SUDHAAMA.
.
WORLD'S RICHEST TEMPLE - This is originally a Jain temple converted by Ramanujam/Sankaracharya around 8th century A.D onwards along with 1000s other dravid temples.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavirchavan
ORIGIN OF TEMPLE: THIRTHANKAR, TEMPLE BUILT BY: DRAVIDIAN CIVILIZATION
LORD VENKATESHWARA- NO HISTORICITY, NAME CONVERTED BY ARYAN BRAHMINS.
ORIGINAL IDOL: THIRTHANKAR- NEMINATH -
HIDDEN BY BIG NAMAM , JEWELLARY, FACE COVERED.
Complete idol is covered to hide its original identity. Balaji has been photographed on many occassions without Jewellary and it is found to be Standing thirthankara, which many brahmins believe and admit. Archaelogical scientists, honest historians have proved this to be a Jain temple.
Brahmins also believe even Ramayana is myth and no real things existed whatever depicted in it.
Millions of people visit Balaji temple but no one know reality about this temple. It is truly
dravid temple, which is confirmed by Archaelogical department as Jain temple. Many brahmins silently believe and agree that it is originally Jain temple converted by Ramanujam and Sankaracharya as 1000s of other dravid Jain temples converted, rechristened by Avatar philiosophy. No Historian can ever claim that there was any god by name Lord venkateshwara.
Many historians world wide believe - any given old temple in southern part of India is originally a Jain temple. However it may have changed its name.
As such Hinduism ( word coined by britishers) was not a single religion till recently . It use to be known with hundreds other names in different part of asia. Eg. Saivism, vaishnavism, sanatan, Vaidic and so many different names according to geographical locations. No wonder there are millions of god worshipped. thanks to britishers for reuniting and giving a common name.
Archaeological Senior officers (who chose not to comment much due to political and brahmin (aryan)dominance ) firmly believe that originally complete dravid population was Jain who were not fighters like aryans, and believers of Ahimsa, whose heritage was stolen by cunning aryans who came to India around 3500 years ago. They slowly entered into dravid land grabbed their property, culture, heritage and even literature.
Brahmins had only means to survive with temples, caste system was created by them according to their whims, fooled people with Avatars, mutilated dravid temples,converted them into whatever name they fancied eg. venkateshwara, kapalishwara, varadaperumal, etc which neither has historical identity nor these gods are even talked about in any literature. Moreover these fabricated avatars are not known in other sects of Brahmin religion and Hinduism. Let us say Lord Kapalishwara, or Meenakshi, kamakshi cannot even be identified by people from UP, Delhi, Rajasthan, Gujrat. These avatars are only known in few places in South that too among those brahmins who converted Dravid temples to Aryan temples by deceit.
Recent historians who are not influenced politically or motivated by brahimnisation firmly convey that even today no one is interested in publishing real history of dravids which was superimposed by Aryans. their heritage is neglected, their literatures are faked by Brahimins.
For example Thirukural was product of dravid civilization ( written by Jain Saints) but later it was labelled as Hindu literature at the time Hinduism was not known with its present name around 1st century B.C.when sacrifice of animals and vaidic religion was in vogue.
To conclude Tirupati balaji temple is wonderful temple belonging to all devotees, it can be run the way it is going. But atleast its true history and identity has to be made known.
How long millions of people will be fooled with fake identity given to this temple by brahims? How long its abhisekham and other rituals will be performed in private with closed doors.? I think most of gods elsewhere in hinduism whose abhisekham is performed in public view, same way Tirupati's rituals need to be done in open with public view. As we all believe god are not property of brahmins alone, but they belong to devotees.
Why Tirupati Lord venkateshwara's face has to be hidden. When no face of Lord Rama, Lord Krishna, Lord siva, Lord brahma, Lord Ganesha are hidden. This looks quite weird hiding face of god to mislead its real identity.
We would all love to have our god let it be brahmin or jain , it has to be in open for everyone.
Let us ask those brahmins to perform all pooja, abhisekham openly, not to hide with curtains or by closing doors. There is absolutely no need to keep God in private if this is real .
One real good picture has to be published as it was created many centuries ago as Lord Neminath without jewellary , namams and flowers, let their devotees see their own lovely god without barrier. afterall devotee when comes with 100 % pure devotion they must be allowed to see their real god 100%, not loaded with jewellary, artificial foreign elements which are used for covering true identity. This is one of reason only 2 % of complete structure is visible to devotees, which doesn't happen with Lord Krishna, Lord Rama, Lord Hanuman, Lord Ganesha in other parts of India. God's identy is hidden only in such temples when temple would have been converted from Jain temple and their naming is done on fabricated, non-historical avatars.
Can we request temple authorities to reveal its true identity and to see full face and posture of god . Can we have real photograph without artificial projected hands, face and other parts.
I think brahmins would never allow to do that. Our brahmin dominated society is far away from truth, they have managed to reverse complete history of this country.
Let us request our government to atleast make the truth available to every devotee, not living under the myths and stories. Indian courts have already declared few decades ago, this being truly jain temple. Unfortunately today people think jains are only who are from part of Rajasthan, Gujraj or some pockets of North India who are basically trading community. But truth is that real Jains are only who were dravidians. Present Jains in Rajasthan, gujrat are only few who converted from Aryan brahmin religion. Original Jains from ages are dravids (original inhabitants of bharat)who are living in Tamilnadu, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Kerala , bihar into farming, labour jobs and are very poor, whose heritage was looted, converted which is as old as 4th century b.c. - can be found abandoned or converted all over. jainism existed much before lord Mahavira.
North American based historians have traced Jain history upto 8000 years old with enough evidences and proof. An American historian has said Lord rishabnath has been renamed as Lord Siva.
From ages dravid history has been mutilated, wrongly potrayed by so called responsbile vested interests of society, politics and even government. It is Aryans whose history, mythology and wrong facts are superimposed over dravid history, who were immigrants to India.
Dr Santhalingam, senior director of Archaelogical survey and his assistant, and ASI has unpublished researched facts which clearly state that , Every old temple in south was once jain temple, presently known with different identity created by brahmins, few such examples out of 1000s of dravid jain temples converted to Brahmin temples are:
1) Madurai meenakshi temple
2) kanchipuram kamakshi temple (Kanchipuram has more than 100 temples)
3) varadaperumal temple ( kanchipuram)
4) thiruvanmalai Arunachalam temple
5)Mylapore kapaliswara temple
6) nagaraja temple nagercoil
7) Thirumala balaji temple, ( total resemblance to thirumalai jain temple in Arni district)
Dr. Santhalingam expressed that due to political circumstances these facts cannot be disclosed or published, but facts remain same. He also said thiruvalluvar was a Jain saint who wrote thirukural, he has done enough research but unable to publish same.Even Tamil was evolved from dravid Jain civilization born out of brahmi language. Enough evidences are avaialable from epigraphy. As per him aryan brahims invaded jain temples and converted them as their source of livelihood.
Let us all pray to Lord venkateshwara ( Lord Neminath) to protect our devotees and believers without the help of agents ( brahmins) , and let everyone know its true identity and real name, no matter Aryan Jains, dravid jains, or saivist or vaishnavaites control this temple. It is common for all the devotees. Worshiping any god without knowing real identity can only add to our ignorance. There shouldn't be any force which would work towards faking our very own god's name.
Above information is well supported and contributed by:
Archaeological survey of India , TN Branch
American Historians
German universities
Few Historians from India.
Foreign Universities.
Professors from Madras University.
Christians community of Nagercoil who were originally Jains
Nadar community who were originally Jains whose origin is traced upto 4000 years-specified in book written by Dr. M Emmanuel- dravid lineage. :P :P
possible... anything is possible in the name of evolution and invasion.
Just like the Moghul emperor who destroyed a Lord shiva temple called 'Tejo Mahal' and built Taj mahal :roll:
..
What a loose talk...Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Our Friends Mr NOV and Mr. Badri have already posted well meaningfully in reply to such self-centred inferences and conjectures.--
--as if Ramanujacharya had cunningly grabbed others rightful property of worship.
And I had replied analytically-- on a similar Claim as Muruha.
The Great Sankaracharya-- the Incarnation of Lord Siva-- had NO ROLE in bringing re-life to this Ancient Venkatakrishna Temple — nor he had ever visited during his life-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Badri-Narayana temple was discovered by Sankaracharya--- [on the holy commands and guidance by Lord Badri-Naryana Himself through dreams]---
Then with the support of Kings, Sri Sankara gave it the shape as a Temple, and organised Poojas, as well as popularized to the world.
Contrarily, this Venkatakrishna Temple at Thirumalai was developed and popularized to the world—by the Adhi-sesha (Divine Serpent Service-man of Vishnu) awathara Ramanujacharya ---
---about 300 years after Sankaracharya
--although the Temple in a simple form, existed ever since Dwapara Yuga--
It is a well-known fact undoubtedly proven by all the possible means and modes---
---that this was and is a sacred abode of Lord VENKATA-KRISHNA --- eternally, ever since several thousands of years--- as was foreseen by the first part of Veda, named Rig-veda
---sung by Mudhal-alwars (born about 5130 years back)-- as Venkatakrishna--- followed by Seven Alwars subsequently---
--but prior to the advent of Sankara, Ramanuja, Buddha, Mahavira and such other Prophets.
Ancient Literatures including Silappadhikaram too confirm this Historical Fact as Vishnu's abode.
But no doubt Sri Sankara composed Baja-Govindam Sthothra in praise of Lord Venkateswara enthused by his Dream-vision---
--well in advance of this temple was publicly popularized so, by Ramanuja subsequently.
Even Sri Ramanujacharya did not take liberty to name this as Vishnu temple.
But only on the invitation and appeal from his disciple Thondaimaan Tamilian King--- to solve his problem of a Religious dispute between the Saivites and Vaishnavites.
Why Saiva Vaishnawa Dispute?
Because no Alwars had ever climbed over the holy hills and reached the Venkatakrishna temple,
--unlike the other cases of Alwars Mangalasaasana temples.
But Lord Venkata-Krishna gave dream-vision to Alwars one by one, showed them the Forest route to reach the Kapila-Theertha Lake at the Foot of the hills.
Alwars were initially puzzled as to why they were not guided upto the Deity Himself as was the case of other Vishnu Temples.
However they complied with the commands of the Lord Govinda and reached the Kapila-Theertha --- one after another at different times.
Only then they could know why they were not ordered to reach the Temple at the Hill-top.
Yes. Due to the benign grace, The Lord Venkata-Krishna did not want His devotees to inexplicably suffer, nor take up such an arduous task, incompatible for Sadhu devotees, causing enormous pains to climb over the seven steep hills-
--within just 12 hours at a stretch, adopting Upavasam and Orthodoxy--
--facing the unforeseeable ordeals of dense forest and Wild animals---
-- just to reach Him in an Earthly Abode.! --
--intended for HUMANLY ACCESSIBLE WORSHIP of a MERCIFUL God.!!!
So the Lord VENKATAKRISHNA gave darsana to Alwars at the Sky, just above the Temple---
---visible enough for the onlooker standing at the bank of the Kapila-Theertha Lake at the foot of the hills---
---and also showered them the Gjnaana to concurrently repeat His Gospel Tamil- Veda-- called Alwars' Dhivya-Prabhandham
That sacred lake is the holy place were the Vishnu awathara Sage Kapila-muni had performed penance for hundreds of years--- and eventually He got Darsana of Venkatakrishna from here-- and so it is called as Kapila Theertham by all.
And also that Lake Bank is the same place--- where Alwars too got the Thirumalai God-darsana from here.
So it is called as “Alwar-Theertham” also by Sri-Vaishnavites / Alwars followers.
Since no alwars had ever set their feet on the holy hills--- their followers felt that the Holy hills being the incarnated form of Aadhi-sesha, they too should not set their feet on the hills---
---but worship only from the foot of the hills named ADI-PADI (Now-a-days called as ALI-PIRI)
Consequently the temple was almost deserted--- because no poojas was meaningfully performed nor the simple stone-walled abode was maintained properly---
---deserving enough for a divine temple in the midst of a Hill Forest.
At such a vulnerable situation some Chozha Saivites interested to spread the Nayanmars cult even out of the bounds of Chozha country then--- approached the Thondaiman King to permit them at least---
---to perform pooja as Lord Siva--- since practically DESERTED by Sri-Vaishnavites until then---
---justifying their claim basing on some unusual and unique features of this rare Temple signifying some Siva features too--- as All Gods within One Supreme God.
Realizing the Time-demand and trend of the common-man’s perception on God---
Ramanujacharya took a bold decision to climb over the Hills and thus set a healthy precedence for his disciples.
Yes. He was the first in those days to climb over the hills along with a few dedicated disciples and reached the temple atop the hills.
On his prayers, God gave him darsana as Viswaroopa-krishna.
However he did not force the Saivites to accept the fact and Truth as undoubtedly known to him.
But he convinced by proving to the the Saivite claimants in an amicable manner by means of a Field trial--- leaving to the Ground Judgement of Lord of Thirumalai Hills
Which episode is already well-known.
Not True.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
[html:d18ad248b6]Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ateswara17.jpg
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I reiterate, anybody who is authorised by TTD to enter the Temple--- can see the original shape of the Idol Iconage, during Abhishekas on every Friday---
[html:d18ad248b6]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...hirumalai2.gif
[/html:d18ad248b6] The conspicuous Namam is removed on every Wednesday night and we can see the Idol with simple streak Namam on His forehead--- without hiding his Eyes.---
---which is called NETHRA-DARSANAM.
Why such a Big shaped conspicuous Namam covering His divine Eyes--- ONLY HERE.?
He gave Dharsana so-- to Sri Ramanujacharya confirming His earlier utterances as Krishna---
---once again here, by signs of bodily language also.
Rather, He is symbolically exhibiting His Silent Message to devotees--- His divine principle during the contemporary Hard days of Kaliyuga.
What is that Divine Principle?
While the Y or U shaped Namams denote the divine feet of God Himself--- the “ப” shaped Namam indicate the holy Feet of Vishnu-dasas like Hanuman, Garudalwar and Alwars Acharyas.
The Vaishnaivites wear 11 such "ப" Namams all over the body--- different from that on their Foreheads--
---signifying the holy feet of revered and dedicated devotees cherished by God.
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It means the Vishnu-disciples Alwars and Acharyas Feet Symbol are considered as the best Ornaments for the devotees--- better than any Jewels or Ornaments or any bodily Decorations
It is more an Adoration to the Human-Soul than the visible Human-Body.
Why a BIG NAMAM Hiding God's Eyes?
In the case of Lord Venkata-krishna--- it conveys His divine message that during the current era---
--He looks at the world, as well as the People-- only through the Views of His long-trusted dedicated devotees ---
---as His Medium Specs to judge the true worth of any other Devotee and the Society as well.
Rather Lord Venkateswara is GUIDED by His recognised Devotees like Alwars and Acharyas
So to say--- whoever is the Friend or Well-wisher to His Devotee--- will ONLY be treated as His true devotee---
---and whoever is the Enemy to His devotees--- will be treated by Him as the DEEMED ENEMY to Him, the God too--
--irrespective of the grade standard and extent of the New devotee's direct Devotion to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
Dear Friend, will you please enlighten me--- whether any Theerthanka’s Idol is wearing a Dhothi in a Pancha-kacham style as common for Vedic Hindu Gods?--- carved in the original Idol itself.?--- as we see here too?Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Is there any Theerthankara who holds Lakshmi and Bhoomi-devi on his chest.?---
If Not what do those EMBOSSED Form Sculptured chest signify according to your Jainism?
And the Royal Crown on the Head... found carved in the Sculpture--- which cannot be supplemented on a plain head?
---and Nagabharana on his hands?
According to your belief--- what do his hands signs, one palm showing downwards, while another palm at the knee… mean?
Utterly FALSE STATEMENT.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
You ONLY may not know.--- Contrarily MILLIONS KNOW the True History.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Because the TTD have published several Books establishing the truth, Historically and one and all other aspects too.
What do you mean by dravid temple/ Is there any Aryan Temple anywhere named so by History or Epigraphy.?Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
First of all, my dear Friend, please understand, Dr Ambedkar proudly called himself as Aryan!
And he vehemently refuted the BOGUS claims of the British made CONCOCTED INDIAN HISTORY---
---by name of ARYAN INVASION THEORY.--- which sort of Invasion never took place according to proven World history
Dr Ambedkar was well-convinced on the proven findings of Dr Max muller, the famous German Scholar after his impartial and unbiased Historical –Research on Aryans and so called Dravidians.
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With a crooked intention to BREAK THE UNITY of the Indian people then--- fighting for Freedom under the leadership of MKGandhiji--
----the British rulers mischievously created a FALSE INDIAN HISTORY-
-- claiming that the Indians are of two different Origins by Race as Aryans and Dravidians.
And that the Brahmins are the descendents of Aryans.! On what basis?
Just to create a VENOM of Caste-hatredness amongst the homogeneous Indian people.
Dr Ambedkar was well-convinced by means of Dr Max Muller’s Research Books--- that all along the past Indian Race Origin, there was only one race so called Aryans…
--but by means of their two different sorts of occupations --- in Forests and Non-Forest lands.---they classified themselves by two divisions as STHITHA-VAASI ARYANS and DRAVIDA-VAASI ARYANS--
Even within one and the same family, there existed two such sorts of functionaries by professional nomenclature.
Sthitha-vaasi Aryans got engaged in the NON-MOVING Resident Occupations, like Agriculture, local trade, Govt Administration, Teaching, Handicrafts etc-- as possible and available opportunities to earn a living in towns and villages.
Dravida-vasi Aryans were engaged in mostly in Forest related occupations, like growing Forest wealth, Mines, Training Animals like Bullocks, Buffalos, Horses, Elephants etc for Human support, Overseas trade and Employment etc.
--and so the Dravida-vaasi Aryans were constantly moving from place to place--- changing their Residences too frequently as Guest Houses--
--similar to Seasonal Migratory Birds species.
Whereas the Sthitha-Vaasi Aryans were contented with their respective Non-forestry professions residing statically at their Native places within India only.
The Dravida-vaasi Aryans were parallelly having various dwellings both in the Forests as well as Towns and cities too.
In brief -- STHITHA-VAASI ARYANS-- may be called as IMMOBILE ARYANS--
--and the DRAVIDA-VAASI ARYANS as MOBILE ARYANS
Consequently the Dravida-vaasi Aryans only could discover for Mankind, several sorts of Richness of Nature---
--such as perennial Rivers, Water-falls, Hidden Temples, Mine locations, Rich Forest growth of Woods, Fruits and variety of Grains etc.
What does the word DRAVIDA mean?
The Sanskrit word DRAVID means one who moves from place--- similar to the sense of the word DRAVYAM meaning Money
The Word STHITHA means STABLE / UNMOVING.
What does the word ARYA mean?
The word ARYA means SUPREME --- so to mean the SUPREME BIRTH AS MANKIND.
Utterly FALSE.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
No. The Word Hinduism was coined by Persians, who were the the First Marketeers for the Indian products in the World Market --- by Exporting Trade Agents to other Foreign Nations worldwide.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
In those days the Indians were mostly residing close to the River banks. And the Persians came in first contact with the people residing at rich and fertile River-bank of Sindu River.
The Persians called them as SINDIANS and their Religious faith as SINDU--- linking with the Sindu River regions
But the peculiarity in the Persian Language is --- that they have NO PRONUNCIATION AS “SA” Consonant nor its subsequent phonetics--- as SU, SI, SEE, SAE, SOA etc.---
--but they pronounce the “SA” letter as “HA”
Thus they popularized to the World --- as HINDU ---- HINDIA/ INDIA--- and so on.
In all the World religions, there are several divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
For example, amongst Christians--- Protestants, Roman catholic, Seventh-day Adventist, Pentecost etc--- However they all are called by others by one Common name as CHRISTIANS only. Because their Religious treatise is the common one as holy Bible
Muslims:--- Shia, Sunni etc. --- But they are unitedly called as MUSLIMS—because they all follow the holy Koran only.
Buddhists :-- Keenayana, Maha-yana, Tibetan Buddhism, Sikkim Buddhism, Japanese Buddhism etc,. although they may name them different. They all are called as BUDDHISTS only because they all follow one Common prophecy Dhammpada
Jains:-- Digambar, Swethambar etc. They too follow one common Prophecy of Mahavir
Similarly all those who adhere to one common religious treatise the VEDIC-DOCTRINES, they are called as Vedics / Sanathana-vaadhis / Hindus
All the various sub-divisions previously existed as Splinters were got united by the Great Sankaracharya, under one Name as Vedic-Dharma.
Britishers had nothing to do to unite the various divisions of One Vedic Religion of MOSAIC FORM--- named as Hinduism.
Utterly BASELESS Argument --- as already clarified.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Venomous Hatred and Jealousy by PERVERTED LOOK--- towards one section amongst One United people Indian ARYAN-RACE of one Land India.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Since Dr. Max Muller had vociferously countered, proved, established and thus SILENCED the British on their Baseless arguments and CONCOCTED HISTORY---Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
--- claiming the British people as the AENGLISH (English) Earthly Race --- pronounced as ANJLISH--- since they are the HEAVENLY BORN Off-springs of the Divine Angels the SUPER-MAN KIND
Uterly FALSE.Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Nobody is FOOLING You, My dear Friend.— I pity You --- YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELVES.!!Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
FalseQuote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Just One Opinion.
A GOOD JOKE!Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Well. All the Religions are intended to UPLIFT the Mankind--- true to the Real sense and concept of HUMAN-VALUES---Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
Similar to various sorts of Foods ultimately result in feeding only one common sort of Nutritious Value to the various Physiques---
--- all the various religions too have been created by ONE COMMON GOD--- to cater to varied sorts of Mankind.
No religion including Jainism--- does advocate nor preach HATRED TOWARDS OTHER FAITHS--- Nor other Religious followers.
We must learn to understand the Underlying common Soul-spirit of GOD-REALISATION---
---as well put forth by Dr. Max Muller in his Book named COMPARATIVE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS.
Thus we can enjoy our Earthly Life by means of TRUE HUMAN-VALUES--- developed by our own Broad outlook of UNITY IN DIVERSITY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan
One INTERESTING NEWS.! -- Incredible.!! But TRUE.!!!
While I was employed at Thirumalai Hills about 56 years back as Construction Engineer In Charge---
---One Government Employee there --- argued with me PERSISTENLY--- for days and months together---
--- that Lord Venkateswara is none else than RAJA-RAJESWARI---
---and Ramanujacharya had cunningly grabbed it from we the Saakthas.
Any amount of my Counter-points, based on established Truth by Real History and such other means could not convince him---
---because I found that he was DETERMINED TO DIFFER with me---
--and so tried his best to THRUST HIS WORDS into my mouth.
Then at the verge of patience, ultimately I told him “Look, my dear Friend, anticipating all such UNNECESSARY CONTROVERSIES, Bhagawad Ramanuja has already answered the Counter-Claims and undue Questions like yours--- thus.
“UNDOUBTEDLY the Lord Venkateswara is the UNIFIED FORM OF ALL GODS--- within ONE SUPREME GOD, NARAYANA only—
---but in the shape of VISWAROOPA KRISHNA of Geethopadesam
-- COMMON TO THE WHOLE MANKIND--- of any religion or section of Social spectrum
So anybody can pray and worship Him --- at his FREE-WILL--- according to his / her personal belief and Faith.
He will unfailingly shower His benign grace to you too-- by your own way ALSO.!
But please DON’T FORCE OTHERS --- to accept YOUR OWN CONTENTION and PERSONAL FAITH.” Said Ramanuja
So You can worship accordingly as Raja-rajeswari--- and please don’t waste your precious time to make others fall in your line of personal belief or contention.
Because others too may have their own sorts of divergent faith on Him as---Siva, Muruha, Kali and so on and so forth." I said.
Exhibiting a Ridiculous Smile he replied "Ok I will try so" and left.
Accordingly he conducted Poojas to Lord Venkateswara picture at his home--- differently--- and UNCONVENTIONALLY.!
--by chanting Raaja-Rajeswari Manthra Archanas.!!!
Just after 30 Days, he came running to me and declared that what I advised him--- has been proved correct and he got MIRACULOUS RESULTS --
---more than by praying Raaja Rajeswari form itself -- with the same relevent Devi-Archana Manthras.!
And he thanked me profusely.
I replied “My dear Friend, All such expressions of Gratitude you OWE to the Glorious Ramanujacharya--- and Not to me.
So also my dear Jain Friend, If you permit me as your well=wisher, I would suggest you to worship Lord Venkateswara at Thirumalai Hills---
---as the JAIN GOD ONLY---
---but JUST FOR YOURSELVES ONLY---
I am sure YOU also WILL GET---- MIRACULOUS RESULTS.!!!
Because the Divine Incarnation Bhagawad Ramanuja has made this deity Lord Venkata-Krishna at Thirumalai Hills---
---so MIGHTIEST to shower BENIGN GRACE miraculously.. to ALL--
--- as a COMMON GOD ---for the ENTIRE MANKIND---
---towards One and all who repose FULL FAITH IN HIM---
--in ANY FORM, NAME and MODE --by the Devotee's PERSONAL Choice !!!---
--Vital for our PRESENT HARD DAYS Globally too.!!!”
God is One. We the Mankind Only differ.
Affectionately,
Sudhaama
.
.
Excellent!!!!!Quote:
So also my dear Jain Friend, If you permit me as your well=wisher, I would suggest you to worship Lord Venkateswara at Thirumalai Hills---
---as the JAIN GOD ONLY---
---but JUST FOR YOURSELVES ONLY---
I am sure YOU WILL GET---- MIRACULOUS RESULTS.!!!
:sigh2: just now went through this thread in the last 3 years :sigh2:
Anything is possible in the name of Evolution/Invasion is all I can say
Your claim reminds me of a joke in DHOOL movie..." chandra babu naidu thirupathila Laddu-kku badhil jilebi than poda sollirukar"....Quote:
Originally Posted by parswanathan