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Carnatic Ragas in IR's Music
Topic started by IR_Fan (@ 202.88.154.169) on Tue Sep 25 09:41:42 .
Given below is a site created as a dedication to the carnatic caliber of ilaiyaraaja. Would like to have your comments. Let us discuss and talk about the carnatic wizardy of raja...
http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/index.html
IR @TFM Page
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Old responses
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Mon Jun 7 09:25:22 EDT 2004
Purv,
Guess your thought on sola pasungiliye is right...
Regarding "chinna chinna solleduthu" - i was just waiting for a second opinion before i included it under pahadi..now i have it...
Will change. Thank you purv
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rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.*) on: Thu Jun 10 05:38:35 EDT 2004
VEL..
I have a doubt in this song:
"Oru pattaampoochi"(JOg/Kaadhalukku Mariyaadhai)
I feel there is R2 in the second interlude(flute)
after the chorus sings
"....mounangal mozhiyaagumaa?"(approximately between 3:25 to 3:33)
pls clarify.
Whenever I hear the song i wait for that flute interlude ...
"kaekkumbodhallaam pullarithu vidugiradhu.."
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Also one more query:
"oh priya priya..(sivaranjani/idhaythai thirudadhaey)
isn't there n2 too in this song(aezhai kaadhal vaazhumo=n2 n2 paa r2 g3 pa paa)
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rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.*) on: Thu Jun 10 06:18:20 EDT 2004
VEl..pls let me know the movie name of
"anal dhanil aadidum poovai poovai
anaithidavae vandha katrae katrea"
i think it was sung by bavatharini
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rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.*) on: Tue Jun 15 07:22:43 EDT 2004
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Wed Jun 16 01:26:26 EDT 2004
Rajesh,
Heavy homework koduthuteenga...Raaja'voda natai/jog/thilang usage ellame very confusing..Adhai pathi (abt that portion that you mentioned), i will respond in detail..carefulla gavanikkanum..
About "anal dhanil", i think it is from "Chandralekha".
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rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.*) on: Fri Jun 18 04:36:15 EDT 2004
ok vel...
nallaa pichikkunga,,,,:)
naan vaedikkai paakkuraen :)
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purv (@ 198.*) on: Thu Jun 24 11:57:08 EDT 2004
Hi. Wondering....
Are there any noteworthy raaga-based songs in the following IR films?
Manaivi Solle Manthiram
En Uyir Kannammaa
Ilaiyaraagam
Dharmaseelan
Thambikku Oru Paattu
Nyaayam
Idhayathile Oru Idam
Vasantham
Chinna Ramaswamy Periya Ramaswamy
Paasa Mazhai
Eetti
These are just a few albums wherein I haven't heard any songs, and am curious about.
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MSK (@ desk*) on: Fri Jun 25 16:11:16 EDT 2004
Hi Vel & others,
Greetings ,. I am listening to Konji Pesalaam for the first time for the last few weeks and I am totally astounded by the freshness and orchestration of the songs.. Could u guys help me identify the raaga usage on the songs please.. Sorry if you have already discussed this one..
#1. Siru Siru : This sounds like Gowrimanohari to me with heavy shades of " Thendralai kandu kolla maane" from the movie Nilave Mugam Kaattu. Infact the first interludes is almost a repeat of that.
#2. Aathara Sruthi : This again reminds me of "Vaan Megangale " from Puthiya Vaarpugal.. So is this Mohanam or waht ?
#3. Ezhu Vannam : This one clearly is MMG .. not sure though.
#4. Ithuvarai Naan oru : This is my favorite and i guess this sounds like SudhaSaveri to me. ( malargalil aadum ilami from Kalyanaraaman is the closest one I can think of ).
Pls educate me here.
Thanks
MSK
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Jun 26 04:32:23 EDT 2004
MSK, this is a review written for those songs some time back
KONJI PESALAM
Siru Siru - Eats up "munnam seitha thavam" and "agaya thamarai" which had similar higih intensity "keeravani" usage..Unni comes off effortlesly in high pitched charanams (first few lines)..for the cracking tune and rendition by the singer - 4.5/6
Unnai thedi thedi - Raga pahadi (?) is hinduthani relative of raga mohanam. Loved the way the charanams rise up and melt back into the pallavi - Sadhana emotes well, but sounds strained in the first lines of the charanams- for the "down to earth & simple but yet so effective" tune - 5/6
Yezhu vannam - listen to the charanams...sudden twist to bring a folkish taste (or innocent sounding portions of the song), in contrast to the pop"ish pallavi..Lyrics could have been better ...this is thilang raga mostly - 3/6
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Jun 26 04:33:45 EDT 2004
Contd...
Adhara surudhi - the charanams, the first two lines - my word, its a blinder..IR catches u totally unawares...no percussions, a mystic environment is created...then karthik starts of "mottu ondru en ullathil", and the percussions pitch in...massive effect. Thats IR's wizardy for u - song uses both natabhairavi & keeravani - karthik does a good job, sadhana is adequate - but pallavi could have had less synth in the recipe - 5.5/6
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Jun 26 04:34:15 EDT 2004
Idhuvarai Naan - the full meals time from IR...remember "azhagu malar aada" in turbulent sounding raga chandrakouns..this is no less a composition...Tippu bowled me over with his classy rendition - for the picture perfect tune and the classy rendition - 6/6
Kasthuri pottu - "Yerikara poongaatre" from thooral ninnu pochu is a similar song where shankarabharanam raga was used for a folkish flavour - same here. Cool again, from Tippu - the area which i liked about tippu is his ability to give "folk" tinge to the singing...thats what u call "emoting" while u sing...good number - 4/6
Bottomline - As always, worth every penny !!!
[* Indications of ragas used are my own judgements. Scrutiny and further discussions welcome]
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Kannan.V (@ 61.2*) on: Tue Jul 6 05:34:05 EDT 2004
I wonder why "MOUNAMEY NENJIL NAALUM" & "NARUMANA MALARKALIN SUYAMVARAMO KANNIL" both from the film Urangaatha Ninaivugal is not listed at all. Will anyone clarify, on what ragas these 2 were composed?
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CSRamasami (@ 202.*) on: Wed Jul 7 01:40:02 EDT 2004
Kannan:
"Mouname.... Nenjil Naalum Nee Ezhudhum... Kanave kavidhai... is an excellent song by KJY. It resembles "yetho Ninaivugal" of Agal Vilakku; also resembles "Kannamma..Kadhal thandha,," which is listed as Samudrapriya by Vel.
Vel, This song needs some attenetion from your side also. I am not having any links to make you listen this song now. Can Anybody help ?
The second song by Kannan, I could not re-collect, though i remembered to have seen this in the film then. Kannan can give some additional details.
CSR
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sun Jul 11 10:12:47 EDT 2004
:-) CSR,
Rombo naalaikku appuram innaikku "yaar thoorigai" and "ennai thodarndhu", both i had listed in Lathangi....
I am totally flat with astonishment...Yaar thoorigai especially...It will take sometime for me to even understand the exact scale used...i will use what you had in group, for reference...
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CSR (@ 202.*) on: Sun Jul 11 11:34:03 EDT 2004
Vel : Yaar thoorigai... simple approach is E to E of keyboard (Sindhu Bairavi..) and Replace Ma with Ga3 . (so both G2 and G3 is there in this song)! Shruthi bedham group of Sarasangi lists Chakravaham and Dharmavathy. IR has added this raagam (How to name It ?)Which is not allowed as per Melakartha scheme. A puzzle.
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Jul 24 03:34:27 EDT 2004
CSR...i am still struggling with 'yaar thoorigai' :-)))
DEAR ALL
Here are some articels written for ILAIYARAGAM and ILAIYARAAJA YAHOO GROUPS
Starting to decipher ragas using IR's songs http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/LearningCurve.htm
Intro to IR's kapi raga usages http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/LearningCurve1.htm
Intro to IR's Sindhubhairavi usages
http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/LearningCurve2.htm
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purv (@ res1*) on: Sun Aug 29 14:24:00
Would you guys agree with the following?
Unthanin Paadal (Raakkayil Koyil) - Karnataka Khamas
Pachondiye Keladaa (Antha Oru Nimidham) - Vakhulabharanam
Chinanjiragu Nillu (Kannukkul Nilavu) - Yaman Kalyani
Yempaattu Yempaattu (Poomani) - Aabheri
Onnodu Rendula (Enkitte Modhaathe) - Aabheri
Vaanam Vaazhthida (Chinna Maappillai) - Kalyani
Manveettil Irunthaalum (Thozhar Pandiyan) - Subhapanthuvaraali
Naan Irukkum (Azhagiya Kanne) - Hamsanadham
Enakkul Oruvan Yaar Yaar (Enakkul Oruvan) - Hamsanandhi
Regards,
purv
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Wed Sep 8 01:36:03 EDT 2004
I think u r right with Pachondiye Keladaa,
Yempaattu Yempaattu (Poomani)and Onnodu Rendula...But regarding the rest, once again purv, i have not heard these...pls give a source to listen !!!
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purv (@ res1*) on: Wed Sep 8 14:40:33 EDT 2004
You can hear the songs from Enakkul Oruvan, Raakkayil Koyil, and Thozhar Pandiyan at smashits.com. The Azhagiya Kanne song was featured as an SOTD at the TFMpage. Look for it in the SOTD archives. The Chinna Maappillai song hear it at tamilsongs.net. You can hear the Kannukkul Nilavu song pretty much anywhere they host Tamil film music. Does this answer your question?
Now, I'm wondering, how did you hear the song 'Ellaarukkum' that you say is Hindolam-based? I've looked for it at tamilsongs.net and have not found it. :-(( How about the Sevvanthi song, the one you say is Kalyani? How did you hear it? The Nyaayam song that you say is Vakhulabharanam?
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purv (@ res1*) on: Wed Sep 8 14:42:48 EDT 2004
BTW, you might have noticed my number has changed. That's because I am now staying at the University of New Paltz, New York. Just so you guys know.
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Fri Sep 10 01:40:57 EDT 2004
purv
I bought all the PROJECT GEM CDs from wherein i got to here all these hidden treasures. Its worth every damn single penny that you r going to pay, i will tell you...
My gosh...You would die of awe when u get to hear many songs through PROJECT GEM CDs, which sound so unbelievable that IR had scored such music long long time ago, when u and me were babies :-)
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Fri Sep 10 01:44:27 EDT 2004
and have u heard the songs from Ninaikka therindha maname (available also in PROJECT GEM collection)...There is a vintage IR song "ilamai radhathil iyarkai sugathil ilangiliye"...Man, what a number. :-)
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purv (@ res1*) on: Sat Sep 11 19:55:52 EDT 2004
Vel, I have indeed heard 'Ilamai Raadhathil.' Super song to say the least. The other 3 songs in NTM I have on a single CD entitled "THE BEST OF YESUDAS", wherein all the songs are MDed by IR. On that CD there is also a fabulous duet with KS Chitra 'Rettai Kiligal' in 'Ore Oru Graamathile', which is based on Sudhasaveri raagam, and is sadly unavailable over the net. :-(
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Sep 18 11:09:15 EDT 2004
purv.....rettai kiligal - Add pannikiren :-)
Thanks for ur steady support.
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purv (@ res1*) on: Sat Sep 18 21:18:26 EDT 2004
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purv (@ res1*) on: Sat Sep 18 21:30:27 EDT 2004
Vel, if you're asking for what I think you are, then here it is. Rettai Kiligal song goes like this (I'm only doing the pallavi now.)
Rettai Kiligal Andraadum Pesum Thatti Tharaigal
d. s r s r S dS dp mp mr d. s r s s
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Mon Sep 20 01:29:59 EDT 2004
!!!! Purv...
Remember my querry on sree ragam usage by IR?
I think "Solam vedhaikiyile" from 16 vayadhililae is a very versatile use of sree raagam in folkish mould...
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UnbiasedFan (@ cpe.*) on: Sat Sep 25 18:18:54 EDT 2004
Guys like Vel, come out of your small IR circle and look at the vast Carnatic usage by geniuses like GR, KVM, MSV. No wonder knowlegeables like IsaiRasigai, Sindhuja, MS , vijay keep away from this thread which is just proIR centric.IR has just used few raagas and he has not ventured into many Ganaraagas like Ataana, Kamboji, Bhairavi Thodi and many many which MSV and others, Malayalam MDs have done with amazing authenticity. His carnatic usage has been very shallow , just rotating around 2 or 3 ragas like MMG , Keeravani and doesn't warrant much discussion.No freshness in his tunes after 90's
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Mon Sep 27 06:56:31 EDT 2004
A post with good intension, to be "unbiased". But i would like to clarify a few things.
This thread was meant to be "ProIR-Centric", in the first place. And, i wud prefer to stick to ilaiyaraja (with due regards to legends like MSV and KV), for a very simple reason that i like IR more than i like carnatic music :-)...I am not an expert (like those in ur elite list of knowledgeables) in carnatic, who may also like IR. But i am an IR-Liker, who also happens to like carnatic. Hope you see the difference between the two.
So its IR that is my primary focus is, and carnatic music is just "one of the facets" that i chose to look a bit more deeply. My greater premise still is IR. Without him in the picture, carnatic (in film music) does not appeal much to me. Either the usages (in non IR songs) are too heavy and methodical to be enjoyable or are simply cold without any innovations or simply lack the soul.
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Mon Sep 27 07:01:51 EDT 2004
Purv,
Have u listened to "vellai nirathoru pachai kili pillaye" from the film "ennai vittu pogadhe"? It seems to be a derivative of jhankaradhwani...the scale followed is,
s r2 g2 p d1 n1 s....same backwards. The theory books say it is called raga kadhambini.
Asai Nooru vagai - seems another such rare scale. Vakulabharanam sans the gandharam. HOW TO NAME IT ;-)
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Wed Sep 29 01:27:30 EDT 2004
DIGRESSION
This is a personal request (via e-mail) from DAVE KERMAN...READ ON
Note - (i had asked him about WINGS CD released by ANGELICA, the forum owned by the Italian fan (and composer) who came here to meet IR....For the uninitiated, Dave's ReR USA distributes WINGS in US]
---------------------------------
Hi, There:
Yes, we're big fans of the Maestro, and are proud to be the exclusive N. American importer of "WINGS".
Attached is the information sheet our salesmen use to introduce the product to retailers. (Unfortunately the beautiful, color
CD cover will not reproduce in this email).
If you have any suggestions as to how we can reach more customers, especially any Tamil organisations which might like to buy or sell
this wonderful disk, please let me know.
to be continued....
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Wed Sep 29 01:28:02 EDT 2004
Continued.....
If you send me your mailing address, I would be happy to send you a sampler of some of our other artists (be warned - they are of
a completely different musical direction: ReR USA holds no allegiance to any particular style or genre of music; Rather we only care about
excellence. That's why we're so thrilled to have Ilaiyaraaja !!
Many thanks for writing.
Yours in the Joy of Music,
David Kerman,
ReR USA
303 S. Broadway, Suite 386
Denver, CO 80209 USA
(303) 777-0575 Ph
(303) 722-2323 Fax
www.rerusa.com
END DIGRESSION
I liked the reason he attributes to his liking for ilaiyaraaja :-)
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purv (@ res1*) on: Wed Sep 29 23:54:08 EDT 2004
Today I heard 'Mouna Raagam' from Kolangal. The raaga, Laavanthipriya, seems to be comprised of the following notes:
s r1 m1 p d1 S
And the same backwards.
There are other names for this same raagam, one of which is Karnataka Sudhasaveri. In Hindusthani music, this raaga is called Gunakari.
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Vel (@ 210.*) on: Thu Sep 30 00:34:10 EDT 2004
Purv,
Amazing...."asai nooru vagai" follows a close scale s r1 m1 p d1 n2 s (vakulabharanam sans gandharam) !!
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purv (@ res1*) on: Fri Oct 1 23:26:50 EDT 2004
Hey guys,
Here's another rare raaga IR has used: Suranandhini, a Shankarabharanam Janya that takes away the Madhyamam from both the ascent and the descent. It is a fusion of Mohanam and Hamsadhwani.
You know the song 'ABC Nee Vaasi?' Since both da2 and ni3 are used in the song with much importance, I guess this song exemplifies Suranandhini raagam. Another song in this raagam, which I heard today, from the film Thendral Varum Theru, the song 'Thendral Varum Theru,' a nice lilting melody, from a soundtrack that was reputedly mediocre.
Vel, I have no idea what the scale's name is. Sorry I can't be of any help here. ;-)
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sat Oct 2 10:48:17 EDT 2004
purv....
Keeping in mind the scale i had given, i saw somewhere abt a raga called "vakkal" in this scale....but, whats in a name...It will be taking things too far away :-)
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Vel (@ ppp-*) on: Sun Oct 3 07:33:50 EDT 2004
Purv..another rare song here...
Naa Andhang Pirithi from Prema Raaga Haadu Gelathi (Kannada) is based on pinakini/thanarupi.
Pinakini | S R1 M1 P D3 N3 S | S N3 D3 P M1 R1 S (Derivative of Melakartha Thanarupi)
And ever listened to "Eem debba" from ashwamedham (telugu)...Awesome number in Dharmavathy...
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purv (@ res1*) on: Sun Oct 3 23:47:14 EDT 2004
No kidding!! How'd you ever get to hear that song!?? That's just radical!!