There are several factors to ADVOCATE as Tamil-Isai is the GREAT ... and UNPARALLEL ...
What are they?
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There are several factors to ADVOCATE as Tamil-Isai is the GREAT ... and UNPARALLEL ...
What are they?
As long as the song is in Praise of Hindu Gods,i'll listen to them and like them in any language.
Tamil Isai can be used to propagate principles of our religion to all people.It should be used to inculcate Bhakthi in Tamil Nadu and this will take TN people closer to God.
"viggop"
// As long as the song is in Praise of Hindu Gods,i'll listen to them and like them in any language..... Tamil Isai can be used to propagate principles of our religion to all people.It should be used to inculcate Bhakthi in Tamil Nadu and this will take TN people closer to God //
Music ... is an Art... COMMON TO WHOLE HUMANITY.. without any Barrier of Religion, Caste or even Nationality...
That is the Spirit with which a Christian... Dr. Jesudass took interest to learn Music and became a Musician...
Mr.Jon-Higgins... a Christian American... came to India... exclusively for learning Carnartic-Music... and became a full-fledged Musician..
Sri Vedanayakam-pillai ... a Christian... learnt Carnatic-Music... became a KEERTHANA-COMPOSER... and composed several Tamil Keerthanas... as Common-Lyrics applicable to any God of any Religion....
... For Example... "Arulh purivaay... Karunhai Kadalae"... in Hamsadhwani... used to be sung by all the Musicians including MSSubbulakshmi.
He has also composed Tamil-Keerthanas exclusively in the name of Jesus-Christ....which took part in the concerts of several Non-Christian musicians .. including Ariyakudi, DKPattammal, MS and others....
There are also Gramophone-records of such songs too.
For example...the Tamil-Keerthana... in the name of Jesus-Christ... Gramophone-Record by DKP....
"Chiththam yeppadiyoa? Aiyaa vun..... KARTHTHANAE ..Nee yennai kaividuvaayoa?".
Music is for Common-Pleasure of one and all the Creatures... including the Global Human-beings ...
Only with such a HEARTY-SPIRIT...Sangeetha-Rasikas enjoy music without any parochialism nor unfair discrmination
That was the basis... for allowing Dr. Jesudas as well as Dr. John- Higgins... who were honourably given the Dais ... during Thyagaraja- Aradhana Festival... right at the front of Swamy Sannidhi itself.
Music also IMPROVES Soul-power... because of Bhakthi-sense induced in the Lyrics... coupled with the Subtle-Art...
Because MUSIC is capable of EASY-REACH to the Soul too...apart from the Hearers- MIND according to the proven Scientific- Research.
How Thamizh-Isai is GREAT ?
(1) SWEET : Because Two Sweets are mixed together .. How?
Non-Tamilian Foreigners say that the Tamil is a SWEET Language... because its Phonetics are the lightest than any other Language...
So to say.. there is no tough Pronunciation due to Complex-Letters like.. Pra... Kya.. Shta...etc. in Tamil.
As also No Harsh sounds... like Kha, Gha, Chha, Jhaha, Thha, Ppha.. etc.
Thirdly the pronunciation is simple and easy... such that ... any Foreigner or even any Child find it easy to learn Tamil-Lyric... faster than those of other Languages.
Music is anyhow Sweet for anybody... so when both are inter-twined... it develops a soothing Song... even for a Non-Tamilian...
For example... one German Tourist .. who visited India... in 1952, heard in the Radio... the Tamil Song ...
... "Vaanaththin meedhu Mayilaada kandaen" (Å¡Éò¾¢ý Á£Ð Á¢ġ¼ì- ¸ñ§¼ý :-- THIRUVARUTPA- Poem of Arutprakasa Valhlhalaar Sri.Ramalinga Swamihalh) sung by MS Subbalakshmi ...
Immediately he jumped with Joy...saying ...Ah! it is so Enchanting and Mellifluous... not only the Music but also its soft- words... I am an International Tourist who have travelled not only all over the world but also almost the whole of India too.. and heard the Songs in various foreign and Indian Languages... as well....
...But comparatively... such a best combination of two sorts of Sweets by ... Language plus Music.. I am hearing only Now ... in the Tamil-Songs.
And he ordered 100 Gramophone Records of the Song... and took with him to Germany for presenting to his Relatives and Friends there.
... even though of an Unknown Language to all of them.
...To Continue....
Tamil Isai (music) is not just in the Language! Something more in there! Mr Sudhaama - can you guess what they are???
Idiappam
I do not understand your question fully but is it devotion to God that you are talking about?
The popular 'Carnatic music' is just about 250 years old! At least, that's what you hear in concerts - songs of the Trinity, a couple of thousand songs - sung over and over again and again by ALL artists - starting with 'Vathapi ganapathim', then 'Ramanee samana mevaru', then 'mariyatha kathura' then 'varamu lasaki'.
Aiyaiyo samy - the same story every concert.
Tamil songs (and even Purandaradasa's kanada songs) are classified and humiliated -'thukadas' and 'sillarai' sung as the last one minute piece at the end of Concerts, that on the average lasts two hours.
There is nothing new anymore in Carnatic music no longer. What's Tamil Isai?? Why is 'carnatic music' and infertile offshoot of Tamil Isai?? What existed before the Trinity?? Who coined the word 'Karnataka Sangeeth' - and when?
What are ploys these Carnatics used to bewilder the ordinary man to keep him away from music? The Melakartha?? What's happening? And what happened??
We have to study the 'carnatic music' closely to seek answers to these questions. More coming up.... But, meanwhile - any questions anyone??
Mr. Idiappam,
Good... Interesting presentation... although some points are disputable...
The word Karnataka .. has nothing to do either with the so called Trinity... nor any such Vagkeyakara (Composers)... nor even the so called state Karnataka...
Nor as per our Tamil Colloquival sense......" Hae.. this man is a Karnaatakam ..."
... by which we mean in Tamil... "Paththaam-pasali".../ Kattai-vandi type / Out-dated...
But in fact..."Karnataka" ... means... ANCIENT... in Sanskrit.. which word has been adopted in Tamil and all other Indian Languages too.. in that good healthy sense only..
Mr. Idiappam... please continue and complete whatever you want to say in totality.. No doubt you have some sensible points...
. .on which... I will reply after your full postings..
Mahashtran King Someswara III (1127-1139 AD) ruled a small kingdom, just north of Karnataka. His interest in music brought him to the southern music world. He called it Karnataka Sangita - as that was the name of the place south of where he ruled. His writing - Manasaollase - probably on music (I don't know). The music in the South was none, but Tamil Isai. So, the label Carnatic Music was stuck on was was then Tamil Isai.
But how did 'Carnartic music' come to ignore Tamil music compositions prior to the Trinity. The Trinity: 1. Thiyagaraja (1767 - 1847) 2. Shyama Sastri (1726 - 1827) 3. Muthuswamy Dikshitar (1776 - 1835).
All three born in Thiruvaarur, Tamil Nadu. Learnt Tamil Isai. Thiyagaiyer composed in Telegu, Sastri sang in Telegu and Tamil, Muthuswamy in Sanskrit.
What compositions were there in Tamil before these Trinity?
Theruvil vaaraanO - ennai satRE
Thirumbi paaraanO
---- Muthu Thandavar (1600 AD)
Kaalai thooki nidradum theivame - enai
kai thooki aal theivame
---- Marimuthu Pillai (1712 - 1787)
ArO ivar ArO - enna
pErO aRiyEnE!
---- Arunasala Kaviraayar (1711 - 1779)
These earlier Trinity were deliberately ignored in concerts even when the extent of their works run in multiples of what the later Trinity had done - why?? Because they composed only Tamil??
What Tamil compostions have these three to their credit? Who are the other Tamil composers of this period. We will see later.
While gathering them all, I think I should listen to D.K. Pattamal's voice - "Eppadi paadinaro?" at this site. You too, Mr Sudhaama!
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/1/...2298/artist.4/
DKP's eppadi paadinaro is excellent.It was composed by Gopalakrishna Bharathi.
I read that Muthu Thandavar sang one song per day in Chidambaram temple.But alas,only 60 songs is available now,i think.
Most of his bhakthi songs on Lord Nataraja is gone :(
The present day singers just sing what was taught to them by their gurus.Of course,they sing with a lot of devotion which is why God is with them.
:)
Present method of teaching music is said to have been devised by PurandaraDasa.So, the first raga a student is taught is usually MayamalavaGowla
Papanasam Shivam and Koteeshwara Iyer also composed songs in each of the 72 melakartas like Dikshitar.Koteeshwara Iyer's grandson K.Veeramani is also a devotional singer.
Sudhaama and Idiappam
Please listen to this wonderful jugalbandhi of Chitravina Ravikiran and Gaurav Mazumdar(on Sitar).
The RTP in charukesi is simply superb.This concert was in Music Academy,chennai.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/6/s/artist.354/
Idiappam
I do not think anyone wants to insult Thamizh and Kannada songs.Most of the carnatic musicans are Tamils!!!
They are required to sing all songs with equal devotion to God irrespective of the time duration(that is their dharma)
Also,there are lot of new things coming up in Carnatic music.Especially,more interactions with Hindustani music,new instruments like mandolin,guitar,saxophone,keyboard etc are getting introduced in music
Also,carnatic musicians are learning new songs like Bengali songs,Marathi abhangs,hindi bhajans.Madurai Mani Iyer even sang a english note(but heard that if a westerner listens to that,he'll have a poor opinion of carnatic musicians!!! :lol: )
Also, modern day musicans are interacting in the world wide level like L.Subramanian,Ravikiran etc.
With the current technologies like DVD,CD's ,carnatic music is reaching audience throughout the world.
It is really good time for it and musicians and let us pray for its success to Lord Shiva. As long as HE blesses it,nobody can destroy it. :)
[quote="Idiappam"]The popular 'Carnatic music' is just about 250 years old! At least, that's what you hear in concerts - songs of the Trinity, a couple of thousand songs - sung over and over again and again by ALL artists - starting with 'Vathapi ganapathim', then 'Ramanee samana mevaru', then 'mariyatha kathura' then 'varamu lasaki'.
Aiyaiyo samy - the same story every concert.
Really dont know if its worth a reply...this is both the most shocking and also simultaneously the most hilarious statement ive heard idiappam..and im pleasantly amused that u have cheerleaders who laud this as well! anywayz...each one is entitled to his views. perhaps uve been terribly unlucky to have heard those 3-4 kritis u mentioned...that is ur problem, not carnatic music's...probably ur choice of artists was pathetic,...the number of kritis composed by sri tyagraja itself is over 20,000 of which nearly 1300 are in vogue right now--as in sung or played by musicians..purandara dasa has composed over a lakh kritis of which a number of them r sung --as tailenders may be, but nonetheless...
and so what if carnatic music is 'just 250 years old'??? just because smthing is ancient it doesnt mean its the BEST! that way cave man's art was as ancient as u can get,.,,so why not eulogise that as well...
There is nothing new anymore in Carnatic music no longer. What's Tamil Isai?? Why is 'carnatic music' and infertile offshoot of Tamil Isai?? What existed before the Trinity?? Who coined the word 'Karnataka Sangeeth' - and when?
im sure uve never heard of anything called 'manodharma sangita'..where an artist improvises extemporaneously...each concert is new...for the artist and the listener...the alapanai, neraval, kalpanaswaram or RTP wouldnt be the same the next day if u hear the same artist..and still u say therz nothing new in carnatic music...my plea---dont make generalised theories based on ur sad experiences...as far the infertile shoot--i already said in another thread that it was too base a thing to say...carnatic music is an evolved version of the ancient tamizh isai and draws from it no doubt...its like an upgraded windows version man. :wink: 24 or 27 panhs of tamizh isai...versus 72 melakartha ragas(ohhh the same word which supposedly 'bewilders common man'...wonder why or how!!) and innumerable janya ragas or derivative ragas...obviously the scope of the canvas is bigger in the latter and hence its the former which is an infertile old version...
What are ploys these Carnatics used to bewilder the ordinary man to keep him away from music? The Melakartha?? What's happening? And what happened??
:lol: again a wonderfully hilarious stmnt..man, u entertain big time!! i didnt know the word melakartha scared u so much...anywayz...Putthandu Nal vazthugaL! ur zeal for the language is admirable...i just request u to keep it within the limits of rational thinking. :)
Vikram
Purandaradasa is supposed to have composed about 4,75,000 kritis.
Muthu Thandavar,Marimuthu Pillai ,Arunasala Kaviraayar composed for the sake of God.They were not interested in competing with any one.Similarily, trinity composed for the sake of God and for HIM only.All these great souls would be pained that what they have composed & language they composed has now become a point of contention!!! They just wont be bothered about such mundane things.They were devoted to GOD and only to sing his praise they composed.
So,the intention of singers should be to capture the bhakthi of these great souls.Language was never an issue for the composers as well as singers!
Even for the Chennai rasikas who flock to concert halls during the december season,language has never been an issue.
The core is bhakthi and music just elevates them there.Nothing else matters, atleast for me.
If you listen to the link I gave,jugalbandhi of RTP in Charukesi by Ravikiran and gaurav,it is simply superb.The music just elevates you to a higher plane.Music has no langauge and it is a language of its own. :-)
A sad state of affairs here
===========================
http://www.sangeetham.com/others/arc...Focus&pass=yes
hahahaha! Mr Sampath. You words are edging on mockery and comments on me. Keep your cool and just comment on what I say, will ye!
If you read carefully again, my posts, you would note that I have no complains about the Composers - Telegu, Sanskrit or Kanada or whatever.
It is the progressive suppression of Tamil Songs in concerts, that I wish to address here, besides a few other 'defects' of carnatic music.
Episodes next comming up!
BTW, Mr Vikram, how many ragas are used in Carnatic music???
viggop..i dont understand when i ver contested ur claim on bhakti and the fact that it was the sole raison de'tre for the composers-the trinity..i dont understand why u keep hitting back on it again and again..when no one seems to disagree with u on that at all...if u had read my posts on this or the other thread, i think therez a degree of convergence between the views of idiappam, u and me--all i have been saying is that classical music is beyong linguistic barriers...by giving it a regionalistic hue just because a bulk of 'popular' artists come from a certain state, it simple narrows the scope, appeal and acceptance of that art form...thats all...
and viggop thanks for that number..of the kritis...i had vaguely remembered it to be around that many..but didnt wanna risk giving a wrong numerical so that the whole world wud then pounce on me for my 'unpardonable sin' :wink:
Idiappam sir, i neither have the time nor the inclination to indulge in worthless insinuations with u...so kindly desist from advising me from what to do and what not to do...
coming straight to the last question that u posed...
pal, classical music is also called 'Shastriya' sangeeth..the word 'shastriya' has a meaning here--one that has rules or shastras...so the supposed jargons u claimed that carnatic musicans throw at ppl to initimidate them, is actually their lingo...a C-programmer will talk in terms of if andfor loops, a doctor in his lingo..similarly classical musicians have their own language of communication--if that puts off 'common 'people..cant be helped...these common ppl shud stop seeing a doc as well because half the time we dont understand their mumbo jumbo and jargons...
as u know, there are these 72 melakarta ragas that define the bedrock of carnatic music..they are sampoorna ragas and use all 7 swaras in their ascendant(arohanam) and descendant(avarohanam)..the scheme was proposed by musicologist Venkatamakhi sometime in the 16th century(bad at history dates...so reserve my doubts on 16 or 15th!! come on yaar, gimme some benefit of doubt :wink: ) ragas with 5 notes are called oudava ragas and those with 6 notes are shadava..now, if u have 6 in the ascendant and 7 in the descendant it'll be a shadava-sampoorna raga...simple High school maths will tell u the different permutations combinations possible here-
1) sampoorna - sampoorna
(2) sampoorna - shadava
(3) sampoorna - oudava
(4) shadava - sampoorna
(5) oudava - sampoorna
(6) shadava - shadava
(7) shadava - oudava
(8) oudava - shadava
(9) oudava - oudava
---contd---
Mr. Vickram
Thankyou for that unnecesary bombast that you posted in reply. I know all that stuff. I also know what the Tamils have written on music long before the Sanskritis came up with their 'oudava-Shadava' thingy!
My question was very simple! How many ragas are there commonly used in carnatic music?
So stop your bush-beating and come to the point, Mr Sampath!
The first case evidently refers to the melakartas themselves and does not generate any janya ragas.(BTW melakaratas are the janaka ragas or parent ragas and their kiddos are the janyas) The example of Bilahari belongs to the 5th or oudava - sampoorna case. Using the sampoorna - shadava case as an example, there are 72 sampoorna arohanams and six shadava avarohanams for each, leading to total of 432 janya ragas of this type. (Again if uve done Maths in class 11 or 12, u cud crack this one...perms and combs chapter!!!) By the same argument, there are 432 janya ragas of shadava - sampoorna type. Following this procedure, one can arrive at a total of about thirty thousand independent janya ragas. However, a large number of these are not in use since they do not have distinct raga swaroopas. This brings us to the important observation that it is not just mathematical jugglery that produces ragas. As the saying goes, 'Ranjayathi ithi Raga' - that which is beautiful is a raga. Ragas are produced through experimenting with the possible combinations, looking for distinct swaroopas. This process has been conducted for centuries by composers and musicians to arrive at some two to three hundred or so janya ragas currently in use.
U can have further variations of janyas called bhashanga raga, upanga raga, vakra ragas and that would take the tally a little more than that...but all that on a later date, lest i dont lose u completely :wink:
i really dont understand ur last stmnt abt 'faults' etc...even if there are faults, so what?? art is an expression of human emotions...humans are imperfect, so their art cant be perfect...art is also a continuously evolving process..what u find imperfect today wud become a part of the form a few centuries later...so letz not get there at all...the point i reiterate is abt the evolutionary aspect of any art...i fully agree (and being a tamilian myself) that the roots of carnatic music lay in the tamizh isai of the ancient tamils who had reached a v early stage of literary and musical supremacy...Idiappam, with times things improve, evolve...even ur operating systems versionz get added features with new versions...how can, then a form thatz evolved now out of its old parent be its infertile offshoot?? it wudnt have survived n thrived in that case...tamizh isai had some 24-27 panhs(panhs was the equivalent of the word raga)..also it totally lacked the hallmark of classical forms--Improvisation. it was more of Kalpita sangeetha or composed music..whereas both styles-Hindustani and Carnatic bank on a lot of Manodharma Sangeetha or Improvised/spontaneous/extemporaneous music(its more in Hindustani than carnatic, agreed)..through components like Alapanai, Neraval, Kalpana swarams, RTP the artist treats the raga like his child..helps it to grow stage by stage and then expose its traits and beauty in all its majesty...this makes singing an ever green, a fresh experience and also challenging...cos ur composing right there on stage, not looking into whatz written in a book or taught by ur guru...thats where the beauty lies..one which the ancient forms DIDNOT have..
take the case of hindustani music as we noe of it today...inital indian classical music as documented by Bharata in his natyashastra in some BC year,..where he said all these 7 swaras emanated from nature etc...and later sharanga deva's sangeeta ratnakara--there was no distinction between Hindustani or carnatic styles--the names also werent known...dhrupad was the most ancient form of Hindustani music..been there for over 1200 years...but with turko persian invasions and influences, the Khayal form developed..which is what is in vogue today...dhrupad has almost died with just the dagars, gundechas and others practising it...khayal gave rise to other offshoots like thumri, kajari, dadara, tappa etc some of which were from the courtesans and looked down upon...but today its a part of any Hindustani musician's repertoire...similarly carnatic music has evolved, changed, metamorphosed from the ancient styles...added on more features, become structured and grown and continues to grow..like the khayal singers abandaoned the elements of dhrupad (alap jod jhala--which if u notice is interestignly similar to our ragam tanam pallavi!), so also composers over the years abandoned languages like tamil and kannada and took on sanskrit and telugu...therez no earth shattering consequence of that...if u say language doesnt matter, then why r u worried abt tamil compos being subsumed??? contradiction of sorts???
and anyway imperfection is good..Perfection is death after alll!
ur beyond help sir...live with ur views..Good luck and God bless you..
Wow, Remarkable feat Mr, Sampath! Really! You have produced a '10 page report' for an answer that just needs 3 digits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Sampath
Bewilder Bewilder Bewilder - never mind, that's common amoung some carnaticians and some anti-Tamil elements that I meet often.
Let me post my simple question for a genuine answer from someone.
How many ragas are there commonly used in carnatic music?
Mr Vikram mistakenly said:
You are terribbly mistaken there! You just counted the pans in Thevaaram! There are over 100 pans! Just about the number of ragas commonly used in carnatic music! What 'raaga inovation' are you talking about in carnatic music??Quote:
tamizh isai had some 24-27 panhs(panhs was the equivalent of the word raga)..
Melakartha eh?[/quote]
Vikram Sampath
My post was not at all against you! I am also of the opinion that music has no language barriers.
Is it not Tamil musicians who have an open mind to singing in all languages? We should appreciate ourselves(Tamilians) for this broad outlook we have.No one forced it upon us but still we sing in different languages.All the Tamil muscians claim that there is no language in music.
Idiappam
Raga improvisations usually happen in RTP.Raga alapanai is supposed to be the place where an musician can show off his knowledge of music(vidwat) & his creativity.
GNB had a style in alapanas when he was elaborating and exploring a particular raga.It became later known as the GNB bani.
Flute Mali used to pick up some important notes of the raga and elaborate on them only(unlike GNB).
SO,you'll find that RTP and raga alapanai of the same ragam will be very different from each artistes.
Even in Songs,you can sing with varying tempos.You can sings songs full of brighas.T.N.Seshagopalan is well known for his brigha laden renditions and also kannakkus.
Manicka mudaliar wrote a book about the mathematical basis of carnatic music.Mathematically,you can have an infinite number of ragas.
Idiappam
Music season concerts as we know now started in 1927.Before that,i think people used to sing in courts of rich people and kings and also in temples.
I dont think there was a progressive suppression of Tamil songs.I think the muscians themselves did not have any agenda to suppress any language especially since 75% of the muscians are Tamils and they speak Tamil at home.They probably chose the songs which brought forth their vidwat of music,brought forth their devotion.
Musiri Subramanya Iyer usually chose thygaraja krithis because of their high bhakthi content and he is supposed to be very good in showing emotions through music.Hence,in his concerts,Dikshitar kritis were almost absent as they were more of philosphical nature.
Why do you say that there was a deliberate suppression of Tamil songs?
What does that achieve for the musicans?Which time did this start to happen?
Atleast for younger generations people like me, we hear songs in all langauges including Tamil and carnatic musicans release casstettes which are based on themes,Kshetras etc containing all language songs.Also,they sing with equal devotion to the Lord in all langaugaes like DKP rendition of "eppadi paadinaro"
Guys
Did anyone of you hear the jugalbandhi(RTP in charukesi) of Ravikiran and Gaurav Mazumdar? Was it not simply superb? That itself shows that carnatic music is apart from any one language
in ur zeal to counter me, u didnt notice in that same '10 page report' of mine that i mentioned clearly that (as viggop also said) there can be mathematically infinite no of janya ragas, around 300 janya ragas are in vogue..to add u add 72 melakartas and a few bhashanga/upanga/vakra ragas, u get around 400-450 ragas...sad that u cudnt get even this much out of that "report"and could only jump to condemn the effort i took to share some of my limited knowledge with u.....how many ever it might be, one thingz for sure, the no of ragas in vogue were certainly more than the no of panhs! so u know which one is more evolved than the other...btw, how many panhs were in vogue Mr Learned sir???
and improvisation is in the raga elaboration and exposition...it is not set music sung from a book..i dunno how better i can explain the same concept to u...ive tried all means...and dont think ive succeeded too much..
stop branding others...im not an anti tamilian...im a tamilian myself...but that doesnt make me an irrational zealot...i also need not be a militant carnatic fanatic...carnatic music has stood the test of time and doesnt need worthless people like myself to defend it...if u didnt like it so much, wonder what ur doing on a classical music forum!
u say language isnt important in music in an earlier post and then in the same breath lament on the "suppression" of tamil songs...what a classic contradiction!
viggop, i do agree with u on the issue of why those particular kritis were more in vogue...bhakti was of course one thing...at the same time, an important aspect that sri tyagaraja brought to music was the concept of 'sangatis'...it is often said that his kritis(especially the pancharatnas) have been perfected to such an extent that no more improvisation on the sangatis can be done...a simple example is this famous kriti 'Dari ni Telusu kontinaiya tripura sundari...ni' in Raga Shuddha saveri.(u must hear MLV sing it..shall send the link sometime)...the pallavi of one line has 11 sangatis...the anupallavi has some 15 sangatis and the charanam has 10 sangatis...what more cud any other musician add???
the compositions of dikshitar were rich in lyrical supremacy...astute and chaste sanskrit..at the same time, dikshitar travelled to the north extensively and is said to have brought in elements of hindustani music , and north indian ragas too to carnatic music---like Behaag, Dwijavanti, Madhuvanti, etc. also both these composers set many of their compositions in the melakarta ragas which were neglected by musicians for long --mainly because they were too tough to comprehend for them and at the same time tough to distinguish the minute differences between melas of the same chakra(there are 12 chakras of 6 ragas each)...in contemporary musicians DR Balamurali krishna has composed kritis in all 72 melas and in fact many present day musicians have started using his kritis extensively as well....
viggop...the RTP was indeed excellent...thanks for the link...but i dotn see the point that u make...both are instruments..so anyway they r free from the crutches of language! so hardly matters which instrument is carnatic n which is Hindustani!
the real challenge comes in a vocal jugalbandi when language enters the scene...ask me abt it...i have been a student of carnatic music for 15 odd years now...and have been experimenting with jugalbandis with my hindustani friends on the concert stage...but its never been a very fulfliing experience for me personally and ive always felt it difficult to keep the synchronisation...i dunno if its my lack of expertise or the general lacuna that vocal music suffers from...dunno!
Vikram Said;
Test of time??? How long was that?? Carnatics used to deplore Tamil songs - There were even walk outs by carnatic fanatics when Dhandapani Desikar sang Tamils songs at a Temple concert, saying that the stage got 'theetu' because of Tamil.Quote:
carnatic music has stood the test of time and doesnt need worthless people like myself to defend it...
Now you see, a different story - audience got tired of the same non=Tamil 'carnatic' songs - the same 'ragunaayaga' etc. That now senior singers like Sheshagopalan had to grab and sing the Kamba Ramayanam to keep the fizz going. Bombay Sister went for Bharathiar Songs, and Sudha R. got one or two kavadi chindu and some Bharathidasan songs. Tamil Songs are the ones the is sustaining some life in 'carnatic' music. Properly said, 'carnatic music is infertile'.
What else do you know about me, my dear friend?Quote:
if u didnt like it so much, wonder what ur doing on a classical music forum!
Ah.. where?? Take your time, Mr Sampath read my posts again! I chose my words carefully!Quote:
u say language isnt important in music in an earlier post and then in the same breath lament on the "suppression" of tamil songs...what a classic contradiction!
Just another few questions?? What is the western violin doing on a carnatic stage?? Who brought the harmonium to India?? Before these instruments, what was there???
I think Nadaswaram was the chief accompaniment before the violin.Violin was introduced by Baluswamy Dikshitar(brother of muthuswamy).It was further enhanced when the Tanjavur quartet(Pillai brothers who were disciples of Muthuswamy Dikshitar) took to it.
Did not know that harmonium was not an Indian instrument!It has become so synonymous with our music!
Unfortunately,now nadaswaram vidwans are suffering.The situation became so bad that some carnatic musicans led by Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer conducted a special nadaswaram vizha to show case the power of nadaswaram(mangala isai).Now,I believe the Kanchi Mutt is sponsoring lot of nadaswaram vidwans.The Tamil Film people spoil the image of Nadaswaram and thavil by using it for their "dappang gutthu" songs which have vulgar meaning and dances.:-(
Idiappam
Very surprised that you mention that the audience gets tired? I have attended lot of chennai music concerts when i was in chennai and audience never get tired of the songs.Any song sung well will take us to bliss.there is no tiredness at all.carnatic music songs are not the type of songs where you will get tired if hearing it or singing it again & again. also, the raga improvisation in RTP and alapanai is very much appreciated by the audience.People do poojas and recite skanda sashti kavacam and vishnu saharanamam daily? Do they get tired of it? Carnatic music actually gives people a peace of mind and bliss.
Actually,vidwans and vidushis are singing benagali songs,rabindra sangeeth,marathi abhangs,bhajans etc.they are trying to learn as much as possible too in all languages but mostly they sing devotional songs only and in praise of Hindu Gods/Godesses.SO,they are also trying to enrich their knowledge base as most professionals are required to do so.
OS.Arun too has rendered Kambaramayanam.
Heard TNS is now trying to move to harikatha.Let us wish him well.
Carnatic music came from Lord Shiva.Hence,I believe mere mortals like us cannot do any damage to it.When the Lord decides to take it within himself again,only then it'll get destroyed.Till HE is backing it,it'll keep on getting enhanced by HIS grace.
So,dont worry that carnatic music is dying etc.Lord Shiva is protecting it.This can be seen that it is reaching a worldwide audience and carnatic musicians need not beg anymore and they are getting prosperous. :-)
Sanjay Subramanian,renowned carnatic musician was asked in a concert whether carnatic music is dying.He responded that these predictions have been going on for a long time.Britishers wrote in the gazette that carnatic music is dying after the passing away of the trinity.But,now it is flourishing but the predictions are repeated that it'll die soon.Dont worry.It'll only die when Lord Shiva absorbs it within HIMSELF.it came from HIM and only HE can destroy it.Fortunately,i think,HE is showering his grace on it by getting even young people interested in its beauty.
You would be surprised to know that my organisation conducts "thyagaraja aradhana" annually with only its employees taking part.And all of us are in the age group,21-27 only!!!