Films of Mani Ratnam

[thimuru]

anjali...roja???????

they are of international class?

did he really deal with the terrorism there?...thats a love story!

[thinkfloyd]

My crib against Mani is that he deceives the viewers by appearing to address an issue when all he is doing is 'manipulate' the gullible audience by using the issue to tap their excitable emotions and then completely skirt and romanticize the issue. As a result, the plot suffers and characters become unrealistic.
There are two things film-makers do. Great film-makers.
They either take a stand and pitch for their belief with the help of the movie and its characters. Others don't take a stand. They just take an impartial view and just let the people interpret without being judgemental themselves. Mani does the former (unconvincingly) but says in the interview he's doing the latter. That's the reason some of his films have the most inexplicably dumb and simplistic endings - Roja, Bombay and now, Guru.
He utterly lacks nativity and you always sense a middle-class, elitist 'feel' when you watch his films, probably stemming from his sensibilities, even though the setting may be in a country side.

About international recognition, i agree with Nerd that there are better films than Nayagan. However, from Mani's works, apart from Nayagan, which was a fantastic teamwork involving a few 'greats', i can think of Kannathil Muthamittal which can represent his best. In that sense, there are far better directors than Mani Ratnam who deserve the international recognition, just like there are better movies than Nayagan and definitely much better film scores than Roja.
Infact, we should not get carried away by this international recognition thing. It involves a combination of factors like marketing, lobbying power, accesibility, and the most important thing cultural and regional sensibilities.

Please note that i've only mentioned only some negatives here which does not mean i don't have positive things to say on Mani and his films too. After all, he is one like ARR who doesn TN proud

[MADDY]

My crib against Mani is that he deceives the viewers by appearing to address an issue when all he is doing is 'manipulate' the gullible audience by using the issue to tap their excitable emotions and then completely skirt and romanticize the issue. As a result, the plot suffers and characters become unrealistic.

well thats the realistic depiction of a upper middle/middle class attitudes......when we see a issue, we discuss it and leave it right there .......do we take stand on that and act on that?? no.....thats wat mani does.......many hubbers felt that Surya killing his father in Nanda is reality while Karthik/Prabhu's tolerance of infidelity in Agni Natchithram is unrealistic........trust me, i wont kill my father for having a second wife.... ......i would embrace that family too......dont u guys think so?? (hope my son also doesent mind infidelity )

He utterly lacks nativity and you always sense a middle-class, elitist 'feel' when you watch his films, probably stemming from his sensibilities, even though the setting may be in a country side.

if Mani also makes movies like Selva(about womanliness and manliness and how it grows and reacts to each other ), CSI,encounter,urban cops, raw killings like Gautam, totally unique and never-seen-before characters like Bala, and not to forget the eternal genius of Tamil cinema - cheran who doesent think elitist urban-middle class thinking is neccessary for TN , then wats left for this "poor" middle class people??? who will make movies for us and about us and our viewpoints??? .....i think Mani's departure will mark a end to middle class sensibilities/viewpoint in tamil films which is already rampant.....

It involves a combination of factors like marketing, lobbying power, accesibility, and the most important thing cultural and regional sensibilities.

how do u think mani and ARR have a better lobbying power/marketing power than BR and IR??? all of them were from Tamilnadu and were Tamilians, if i'm not wrong........how do u think Mani and ARR broke the barriers while IR and BR couldnt.......wat was so foul abt their recognition??

Please note that i've only mentioned only some negatives here which does not mean i don't have positive things to say on Mani and his films too. After all, he is one like ARR who doesn TN proud

mani is making one more Hindi movie after Lajjo and is set to retire after that/....... ........we(TF) guys have already lost him.....u have btter people, dont worry..... ......

btw, dubbing Guru in Tamil is a mistake.......mani should have understood Tamil ppl. sensibilities better......its these small mistakes that get him a huge bad name....... .....

hope lajjo is also not dubbed....

[thinkfloyd]

Maddy,
You needn't have taken this thing as an "us" vs "them" Atleast i didn't mean it that way.

Middle-class sensibilities: I never said Mani should not make movies for or about the middle-class. That he has never made a rural subject is also another point. I didn't mean that. Also, it doesn't have to be the case that only village folks should watch village subjects and vice versa. What i meant was even when he tries to depict a rustic setting, or a character from the slum, the language,dialogue, the casting, the production design or art direction as we say it, reflects a certain "richness" or an artificiality about it.

Lobbying etc: I said its a combination of a lot of factors including marketing and lobbying. Its a necessity. Mani is well respected in the north and so is ARR. That wasn't gifted to them. They earned it. Please don't get me wrong. However, my point is that just because Richard Corliss happened to review Guru i wouldn't call it great blindly nor would i dismiss it as a marketing gimmick - i suspect that you think i do. Rather, i didn't find his review enlightening nor did he offer any insight, which is what i'd expect from a critic.

You mentioned IR. For one, his music doesn't have the national reach that ARR has. That's IR's strength as well as weakness depending on how you look at it. He has never acheived nation-wide recognition or adulation that ARR simply because ARR's music was received better in the North. Lobby means the right people, the powerful people trumpeting the movie in the right places. What Bharat Bala is doing is not a crime, but rather a smart thing to do. Not all have the privilege - not all are undeserving of it. The point is, it so happened that Nayagan and Roja got into the Time list, pipping other more deserving candidates in the process. We can use it as an indicator but not as the authority

And why do i get the feeling that you think my statement about Mani and ARR doing TN proud was sarcastic?? Seriosuly, i meant it.
About Mani doing a movie in Tamil or Hindi, going by what i've seen in Guru, i wish he does something much better next time, whatever the language

[Nerd]

That's the reason some of his films have the most inexplicably dumb and simplistic endings - Roja, Bombay and now, Guru.

I will just take this sentance.

Bombay climax was pathetic and you ve hit the bulls eye

I dont know how else to end rOjA and guru. Lets take guru for example. How will you suggest MR to have ended that film ?? Seeing gurubhai dying with a background song similar to thenpANdi ?? IMHO, the climax saved the otherwise dull second half.

[thinkfloyd]

That's the reason some of his films have the most inexplicably dumb and simplistic endings - Roja, Bombay and now, Guru.

I will just take this sentance.

Bombay climax was pathetic and you ve hit the bulls eye

I dont know how else to end rOjA and guru. Lets take guru for example. How will you suggest MR to have ended that film ?? Seeing gurubhai dying with a background song similar to thenpANdi ?? IMHO, the climax saved the otherwise dull second half.

Roja -
If only terrorists could be transformed like that......

Guru -
1) Do you believe Mani when he says he doesn't take stands and he is just being an objective observer?
2) Did you really buy the lofty noble rhetoric guru comes up with in the climax? What's with the 'inspiring' BGM that accompanies that? That was the epitome of Mani batting for his protagonist
So he is this modern day Gandhi who's motivation is to uplift his share-holders? If this climax is acceptable then all of Shankar's climaxes are very well acceptable
3) What's with the Ash being his partner thing? What did those papers in the hands of the committee members have? Straight from a typical everyday Tamil film.....

Its bad enough how he has treated the movie. What's worse is his interviews disclaiming the Ambani connection (understandable) and claiming a stance of objectivity. That means just this - trying to project an image of himself and his film which runs contrary to his work on screen

[Nerd]

Roja -
If only terrorists could be transformed like that......

Can you suggest something else, please. You should watch other pathetic attempts at terrorists movies like the latest Kabul Express. Do you exactly know what runs in the mind of a terrorist and why did he become a terrorist and things like that?

Guru -
1) Do you believe Mani when he says he doesn't take stands and he is just being an objective observer?
2) Did you really buy the lofty noble rhetoric guru comes up with in the climax? What's with the 'inspiring' BGM that accompanies that? That was the epitome of Mani batting for his protagonist
So he is this modern day Gandhi who's motivation is to uplift his share-holders? If this climax is acceptable then all of Shankar's climaxes are very well acceptable
3) What's with the Ash being his partner thing? What did those papers in the hands of the committee members have? Straight from a typical everyday Tamil film.....

1. After all its an Indian film and if you show that the protagonist was unethical in his moves to become rich, therein bolstering India's economy, then the movie would have looked dumb and no one would have bought that.

2. His protagonist is a genius. Almost lakhs of people's lives are dependant upon him. What else will he say in those five minutes? Its very normal that you bat for a genius. Would you have been happier if gurubhai had been sent to the prison ??

3. Ash partner, I got no clue, may be there is something which you can do. A business analyst might help us, maNi himself being an mba degree holder woudnt have flunked there, I think.

And I never thought that he was Gandhi or whatever. He is just a pure genius and I dont think he cried there in the climax, he still had the attitude with him. He just explained his whole life in 5 minutes, I hate to compare that with gandhi

[kannannn]

Roja -
If only terrorists could be transformed like that......

Can you suggest something else, please. You should watch other pathetic attempts at terrorists movies like the latest Kabul Express. Do you exactly know what runs in the mind of a terrorist and why did he become a terrorist and things like that?

Santhosh Sivan's 'The Terrorist' is one I can recommend. And to really see how terrorists have no concern for sentiments, I recommend 'Arlington Road'. A particular scene in Arlington Road has Tim Robbins trying to make Jeff Bridges see reason for his actions: "In war, children die Michael". I haven't seen Guru, so I can't comment on that, but I think thinkfloyd is right about simplistic solutions to serious subjects in Mani's films. IMHO, he is the most overhyped director in India.

[Scale]

Ratnam skews the argument in Gurukant's favor by making the charges against him ("He converts nonconvertible debentures") too obscure to rouse audience's censure. The real Dhirubhai was the most famous Gujurati after Gandhi, and the film allows Gurukant to compare himself to the Mahatama.

That may be the only reason he is just citing an example. No need for scandalous attacks

& :sleep:

[m_23_bayarea]

Sounds like GURU is becoming a major hit! Is this like the first direct hit for Mani in Hindi?