Glorious THYAGARAJA- KEERTHANAS !!!

[viggop]

Vikaram Sampath
"Karnatakam" means "ancient" in Tamil.I think Sudhaama here is trying to prove the same point that music does not have any language barriers.He probably expected someone to argue here saying that it is only Tamil music etc.

I disagree with your statement that other languages enriched carnatic music more than Tamil.NO.Every language has enriched carnatic music ***equally***.Nothing is more equal than others and if this thought comes to our minds,it'll be bad for carnatic music.The aim of the trinity is bhakthi and bhakthi alone! They would be crying if they find that the language they used to reach God is a point of contention!

[Badri]

Agree with both Vikram Sampath and Viggop..especially about the point of the Trinity crying to think their natural utterances expressing their devotion were becoming points of contention for people with nothing better to do!

This kind of vain and futile hairsplitting is positevely valueless, to say nothing of how irritating, as Vikram said, such irrational arguments are.

In a time when music is being recognized as transcending all languages, in a world where an MS Subbulakshmi can sing to the UN Assembly and be applauded for it, or Robbie Williams give a concert in the East and be raved about, it is ridiculous to pay attention to such trivilaties.

In my opinion, if we keep focussing on such trivia, we shall end up losing sight of the more wonderful and divine aspects of music. If we wallow in the primeveal mud and slime of vain and pointless arugements, how are we to rise up and taste the sublime taste of melodies?

I do not wish to cause offense to anyone by this post. Just expressing my views on how absolutely useless pointless arugements are!

[rshankar]

Since many opinions have been expressed on this topic, and everyone has stated that there is no malice intended (!), here is my 2 cents worth:
To begin with, I have to give you my background which does color and bias my judgement. My parents speak Tamizh, and I understand Tamizh, Telugu, Kannada, Hindi and Sanskrit, and consider English my mother tongue. I work in medical research, where, because of a significant drop in funding, I have noticed that people now-a-days choose their interest governed by lack of competition or availability of funds in a particular area, and not the way I was trained: first develop an interest and then seek funding. I think something very similar may have operated with the composers. At the time of the Trinity, Tamizh literature was very highly developed and compositions in Tamizh literally had to float up the 'potramarai' kulam before they would be treated with any respect. I think (and please correct me with references, if I am wrong) that Telugu did not have this 'problem' at that time, and I 'suspect' that 2 of the trinity took the easy way out, and chose a language with little competition! MD compsed mainly in Sanskrit, but to set the record staright, SS has a few (disputed) Tamizh compositions credited to him, and MD has composed in 'manipravalam' with Telugu and Tamizh words. Purandaradasar did compose in mainly in Kannada, but he also has a few Sanskrit songs (lambOdara is in Sanskrit, and so is venkatAchala nilayam).
Finally, at least in the US, my observation has been that the majority members of carnatic music associations are Tamizh-speaking individuals. Given that this music, like all other art forms is a 'performing' art form, it needs the audience to thrive. Therefore, if the audience is mainly Tamizh-speaking, I think that it is not inappropriate to ask for songs in Tamizh. I think that we have enough compositions in Tamizh that will do justice to any concert - in fact, I have heard concerts exclusively in Tamizh (from the varnam to the mangalam), and their musicality was no different (neither less nor more) from the usual fare. So, while I do not think that any one language is better, or offers better musical scope, I think that the needs or preferences of the audience need to be kept in mind (once again, in this business as in any other, the consumer (audience) is always right!).

[Idiappam]

Ravi Shankar! You got them all down to earth! Great post!

[Idiappam]

Tamils have always insisted that - you got to know the meaning of the song for full appreciation!

Refer: Thirukkural - paN ennAm pAdaRkku iyaipinREl....
Thiruvasagam = solluga sollin poruLunarnthu ....

[viggop]

I agree with Idiappam.We have to learn the meaning of the song(whichever language it is sung).Most of the songs are full of Bhakthi ,philosophical meanings.
Even for Tamil songs , we have to understand its philosophical meanings and only then we can really enjoy it.
I try to get the meanings of my favourite Tamil,Telugu,Sanskrit,Kannada,Marathi,Bengali songs as I believe it takes me closer to God

[Vikram Sampath]

well, idiappam, ur right...not earth, im crawling in nether world... GREAT post Ravi shankar, indeed!!

[viggop]

Ravi Shankar
I agree most of the audience are Tamil speaking but the beauty is that most of the audience are broad minded too.

Similarily,most of the singers are Tamils and they sing songs in all languages with the same devotion with which they sing in Tamil.

Again,if you have seen interviews of carnatic artistes and bharathanatyam dancers,they say that "music is bhathi" and they are realising God through carnatic music(Nadopasana).That is the strength of the music.

When you are utterly devoted to carnatic music, any song rendered correctly will bring a lot of happiness in you and you feel that you are getting closer to God.

As Idiapam said,we who form the audience should strive to understand the meaning of the songs be it in any language.This will give us happiness,mental peace and unity with God.

[viggop]

Dear Ravi Shankar
I would disagree with you that trinity took to telugu because it is an easy way out and they lacked knowledge of Tamil that much.
The nayak kings in Thanjavur at that time were Telugu and they imposed telugu.

Tygaraja was a Telugu. So,he composed songs easily in his mother toungue.Dikshitar was a tamil but he composed most of his songs in Sanskrit.I do not know about the mother tongue of shyma sastry.Note that atleast Thygaraja and Dikshitar had direct experiences from God himself.Infact,it was due to grace of Lord Murugan at tiruchendur that Dikshitar could compose songs!
So, they had divinity with them and they could have easily composed songs in any language and it would be the best still. And they were not concerned about self glorification nor were they interested in proving their language skills.I think they were mainly into pure bhakthi.

Thyagaraja sung "Nidhi chala sukhada" refusing to accept money from the king because he wanted to praise only the Lord.Even if it means abject poverty.Dikshitar sung a song praising Goddess Lakshmi when his wife begged him to get money from the King because of their poverty.But he refused and it is said that Godess Lakshmi herself appeared in his wife's dream telling her that money is not the real wealth.How can you say that such people took the easy way out and did not compose in Tamil because they did not have mastery in it?
Their music is about bhakthi and only bhakthi and not language.Lord Rama granted an audience to Thaygaraja when he was in his deathbed.So,much is the power of selfless devotion to the Lord.

Bhakthi only riases you to the Lord and it never brings anyone down to earth.It is only arrogance and pride which will bring people falling down.

[Idiappam]

Viggop said:

As Idiapam said,we who form the audience should strive to understand the meaning of the songs be it in any language

Who said I said all those things you said I said?? I din said that, read again!

I said, singers should sing in a language understood by the listener - agreeing with Ravi Shanker!