Glorious THYAGARAJA- KEERTHANAS !!!

**Vikram Sampath** · 9th April 2005, 11:23 PM

Ravi shankar, this time it was truly an interestign post that u made...while it does appear convincing, what im trying to say is this...while it is a good practice to suit the audience's choice and sing in a language they can associate with, doing that all the time compromises on the music! customer is king no doubt, but then at what cost??? dilution of the 'classicism' and 'tradition' just to pander to the so-called majority of the audience??

You did mention about concerts where varnam to mangalam the songs are in tamil..fair enuf...we have similar concerts in Bangalore on the Dasa sahitya where from start to end all compositions are in kannada...so, thats just not the point here...till about half a decade back tamil and Kannada songs were not even considered 'classical' enough to be included in the repertoire of any musician...sanskrit and telugu ruled the roost...these songs were at best tail-enders....(in fact purandara dasa kritis continue to be mere tail enders to this day, dont they)..so at that time wasnt the audience predominantly Tamil??? did they abandon the form ONLY because the songs were not in their own language...u r then ascribing a very parochial and regionalistic attitude to all tamilians--"we wil listen and appreciate only if its in our native language"...so that brings us to the original topic of this thread--so does that mean, carnatic music is tamil music /tamizh isai and the answer is an emphatic NO as i already elucidated earlier...for instance, if u observe the Hindustani vocal music scenario where 90% of the vocalists are maharashtrians--some tikekar, ankalikar, abhyankar, amonkar, talwalkar, sadolikar..in short *.kar

(in C parlance!)...so does that make Hindustani music Marathi music??? or do these ppl resort to only Marathi songs?? in fact abhangas are tail enders in Hindustani concerts as much as they are in many carnatic recitals! the original places of origin of Hindustani music--be it Lucknow, or Jaipur, gwalior etc hardly listen to it these days...the case is similar to what happens in Andhra pradesh with carnatic music...so do the hindustani chaps compromise on the music just to "play to the galleries" and get a few extra claps????

i fully agree with ur statement abt the way musicians murder the lyrics due to ignorance...they should go the extra mile to understand what they sing, else its a futile attempt...they wudnt be able to emote and what doesnt come from the heart doesnt reach anotherz heart...thats one reason why a lot of carnatic concerts get reduced to mere lyrical and arithmetic jugglery, a lot of cacophony and very less melody and 'bhaava'...im not saying all of them,.but in cases where the singer is oblivious to the meanings. a very reputed singer once rattled on "Brandy yathako manuja" to a dasa kriti which was actually "bhranthi yathako"(why are u dazed o man! )

and the majority of the kannada speaking crowd sat stunned to noe if he was propagating teetotalism

so i agree there that one must take supreme care of the lyrics, esp since carnatic is more sahitya oriented...

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**Idiappam** · 10th April 2005, 04:09 AM

Vikram wrote:

so does that mean, carnatic music is tamil music /tamizh isai and the answer is an emphatic NO

You are right there! Carnatic music is just an infertile offshoot of Tamil Isai!

**Idiappam** · 10th April 2005, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by viggop

Idiappam Sir
Another humble request.Please participate in the "Thiruvasagam" thread in Tamil Literature section.
Me,Madhu,Yudhagit and Ilavenil will greatly benefit by your knowledge of Thiruvasagam.The thread is struggling as none of us know a lot in Thiruvasagam.

I think there is great progress, with all of you there, especially Yudhajit! Great really. See you at the Tamil Isai thread soon.

Meanwhile, I will listen to a thirupugazh set to kunthalavarali at this site. You too, Mr Viggop!

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/1/...284/artist.51/

**viggop** · 10th April 2005, 11:16 AM

Carnatic music came from Lord Shiva himself.It belongs to HIM.

**viggop** · 10th April 2005, 01:41 PM

Idiappam
Arunagiri's thirupugazh was lovely but unfortunately,i do not understand its meaning.Please post the meaning in some threads.For e.g.
Dr.Jaybee is giving us translations of Skanda Sashti Kavacham.

Similarily,erudite persons like you can take a literature section(say Thirupugazh) and explain its meaning(literary and philosophical) in simple words.It would benefit lot of young people like me.

**Vikram Sampath** · 10th April 2005, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Idiappam

Vikram wrote:

so does that mean, carnatic music is tamil music /tamizh isai and the answer is an emphatic NO

You are right there! Carnatic music is just an infertile offshoot of Tamil Isai!

Idiappam, if that was meant as a joke...ok well taken, i tickled myself to death..but if u meant what u said, then it was quite a base thing to say and facts would prove ur statement otherwise..!
God bless!

**Idiappam** · 13th April 2005, 09:39 PM

Over to Tamil Isai thread! Shall post there on Tamil Isai!

**Sudhaama** · 14th April 2005, 09:06 PM

For all such oppositions... there are ... UNBIASED... VALID.. .HEALTHY.. Answers... based on REASONING...

... Which I will put forth as the LAST man... after hearing from others ... more knowledged ...

... but like-minded with me...as... PRO THYAGARAJA-KEERTHANA ADMIRERS

... In fact I am WAITING ... Dear Friends... Nobody to speak on the OTHER SIDE?

**Idiappam** · 14th April 2005, 09:41 PM

What opposition did you note here, Mr Sudhamaa?

**viggop** · 16th April 2005, 11:20 AM

Sudhaama
Are you assuming being pro-thygaraja keerthanas means being anti-non thygaraja keerthanas? Nothing like that.I like carnatic music because of its nature.Other than keerthanai,you have varnams,javalis ,padams,RTP's etc too in carnatic music.everything is enjoyable in carnatic music.Every keerthanai of every composer rendered well is beautiful.being pro does not mean being anti others!