IR's composing technique

[dinkoarun]

I have question about IR's composing technique. We all know that he composes tunes first and the lyrics are added later. My question is was he the first to adopt this technique in India or atleast TN?

[kbee]

I dont know who was first, but in one interview when asked why he does it this way (because ppl are complaining about music taking over lyrics), he mentioned that it is expected as a MD from him that he score music for the mood of the story and likewise it is the job of the lyrist to write songs for the tune. He mentioned that after Kannadasan no one can be creative enough to write lyrics for the music (but I think VM did a great job too)

[Kupps]

My question is was he the first to adopt this technique in India or atleast TN?

Nope. I am sure that his predecessor, MSV has a lot of 'tunes-first' to his store. I think, in one interview MSV has told that in many instances whoever turns out first(whether KKD or himself) to the studio has done his part first and the later has followed the predecessor. He(MSV) has not followed any pattern rigidly in this regard.

In another interview(long back, in DD, i guess) KVM has mentioned that almost all his tunes are "paattukku mettu".

I do not have much knowledge about pre-KVM era. But, some of the songs of pre-KVM era had "tunes first". GR's song "Echi pizhakkum thozhile saridhaana" is an instance of "tune first". Infact the tune is a rehash of his(GR's) old tune for "dheena karunaakaranE natarajaa".

In an interview, for the question "paatukku metta, illai mettukku paattaa?", IR has answered something like "its not mettukku paattu its only sandhaththukku paattu". Though IR has predominantly done mettukku paattu, still, some of his paattukku mettu were very good, for example "dEvan thandha veenai adhil dEvi seidha ghaanam" from unnai naan sandhiththEn(?) is tuned for one of KKD's pre-written lyrics (used posthumously).

Our fellow DFer, MD, Srikanth has said that the creativity of the MD is shown when s/he tunes for the lyrics.

[rajasaranam]

[quote="Kupps"]

Our fellow DFer, MD, Srikanth has said that the creativity of the MD is shown when s/he tunes for the lyrics.

This may apply to other MD's not to our IR. Raja brings out the feelings of the song musically even before the lryics are Added to it and this is the height of creativity. In case of Prewritten lyrics the MD already has something to work upon-- like he has got a lyric which has got all feelings/emotions written and its only a mere juxtaposing of different tunes and coming up with a good one to suit the situation and lyrics.

[thumburu]

I think the issue is not about creativity, but it is the challenge of a music director to come up with a tune that is equally appealing and fits well into the sandham of the prewritten lyrics. The yesteryear MDs were experts at that

[vijayr]

"In case of Prewritten lyrics the MD already has something to work upon-- like he has got a lyric which has got all feelings/emotions written and its only a mere juxtaposing of different tunes and coming up with a good one to suit the situation and lyrics."

Its not that easy. Tuning to pre-written lyrics poses another constraint/challenge for the composer. Experts like MSV have the ability to change the inherent sandhams the lyricist presents in the lyrics and create his own. That IS creativity. Difficult-to-tune lyrics and unequal lengths of sentences poses a probem for the composer, especially when the lyricist if of the calibre of Kannadhaasan. And the mood of the song is dictated by the situation to which the lyricist and MD must abide with.

IR hasnt come up with a clear answer yet as to why he did mettukku paattu predominantly. Probably he didnt want the lyrics to affect his spontaneity.MSV has attempted both methods in equal measures with astounding success.

[vijayr]

Manadhil urudhi vendum( Sindhu Bhairavi), poththi vecha malliga mottu, a couple of songs from Bharathy are amongst some I know of IR that were tuned to lyrics. VaaraNamaayiram from Keladi Kanmani is also a good example and a wonderful tune with smooth scale changes.

[thops]

all the songs from Swarnakamalam (K. Vishwanath's Telugu movie) were tuned after the lyrics were written...

[kbee]

I think the issue is not about creativity, but it is the challenge of a music director to come up with a tune that is equally appealing and fits well into the sandham of the prewritten lyrics. The yesteryear MDs were experts at that

Well there are various levels of creativity and ability and IR have possibly prooved everything. For Hey Ram and Sambhu, IR scored music after the entire picturization was completed. In Hey Ram case, MD withdrew in the middle of the movie, where as in Sambhu the producer didnt like the songs so he requested IR to score music, both for existing lip movements. So no need have second thought about IR's creativity.

[kiru]

" Experts like MSV have the ability to change the inherent sandhams the lyricist presents in the lyrics and create his own. That IS creativity. Difficult-to-tune lyrics and unequal lengths of .

How does this work ? If something can be changed, it cannot be called by that name. In tamil, letters are classified as kuril, nedil and sandham is basically lists the sequence/combination of this.
This is what determines the thalam. This is the reason thalam is specified for songs, (say thiruppaavai) but there is a choice of ragams that you can use with a given lyric.

IR is precise when he says, the songs are written to a sandham. This is because the lyrics can be sung in different tunes, but the sandham remains the same.

Maybe I am missing something here.