charu nivedita's comments on veda

[bis_mala]

There are also areas in the Vedas not acceptable by current standards.

[kannannn]

I read Charu Nivedita's comments on the veda and to cross-check, also went through the vedas on this site:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm
I am glad to say that I haven't missed anything from not reading the vedas before. I just see a collection of hymns, mostly addressed to the elements and procedures for religious sacrifice. That I can live without!

Loka samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu : May all the worlds be happy
I know there are many more such, but the utter simplicity and all encompassing nobility of this prayer is a testament to the good in the Vedas.

Even going by your arguments, don't the number of anachronistic chants far outweigh the kind quoted?! (BTW what is the book number, chapter number, .. of the hymn you have quoted? I tried searching for it, but in vain)

Well, one thing is for certain. I will know what people are talking about when they sing praises of these books. Charms for begetting sons and a prayer for success in gambling? - give me a break!!

[srivatsan]

Mr. Kannan:nnnn

Nobody in the olden days cared to write book number or slogan number. "Loka Samstha Sukhino Bhavanthu" is a common text, occurs in many part of "Nithya Karma anushtanam", as I know them by first hand, as I myslef, is an Adhyayayi....So if you go and searh this in websites, probably you never would find them...

If you are so much interested in classifying something, then I think the best way is to learn it in the proper way....and not searcing in the website... Good Luck

[kannannn]

If you are so much interested in classifying something, then I think the best way is to learn it in the proper way

Ah! My grandfather is probably stirring in his grave.., but jokes apart, why do you answer selectively? Maybe there is a passage in the Rig veda that says so, but a look at the website I have mentioned clearly brings out the fact that vedas just served the purpose of the day: outline the code for religious sacrifices and prayers for.. ahem.. obtaining a wife and protection of cattle ('Indra opened the hole of Vrtra; the topmost cattle he grasped by the back and pulled out; a thousand cattle followed it, it became hump backed. He who desires cattle should offer this humpbacked (one) to Indra', Yajur Veda, Kanda 2, Prapathaka 1 on Special Animal Sacrifices).

Giving you the benefit of doubt, it is possible that "May all the worlds be happy" is tucked into a corner and is part of probably a small collection of hymns that pray for universal well being. But that doesn't make the vedas so special, do they? I can quote other poets too who have prayed for universal prosperity.

The vedas were probably useful in the vedic days when people were heavily dependant on agriculture and diary products for their living and were constantly attacked by wild beasts and poisonous reptiles ('I release (thee) from the fury of the black serpent, the taimâta, the brown serpent, the poison that is not fluid, the all-conquering, as the bowstring (is loosened) from the bow, as chariots (from horses)', Atharva Veda, VI, 13 , 6), but do they serve any practical purpose today? That's my question.

Pray tell me, what the numbers in the reference to Atharva veda in the following quote mean:

"May the Omnipresent and Omnipotent God endow us with faith and Pure Reason at the same time." Atharva Veda 19:64

If it's a few prayers like "May all the worlds be happy", among the many impractical ones, that bestow upon the vedas such respect, I would choose 'Thirukkural' any day.

[srivatsan]

Dear Kannann Sir:

The system of Vedic education is very different from what you think Sir! I am not a scholar, but being an Adhyayi by myself, I know , atleast, how to read and understand vedas.

The vedas have 6 angas, namely 1)Siksha 2) Vyakarana 3) Chandas 4) Jyotisha 5) Nirukta and 6) Kalpa.

Siksha explains the proper pronunciations of the Vedas,

Vyakarana explains the grammar of the Vedic words

Chandas explains the metres of the various Riks and accoustic science assosiated with this.

Jyotisha delas with Universe and the movement of planets and stars around us. Even in Jyotisha, there are 2 parts(which is not in to the focus of the subject)

Nirukta contains the Sootras or formula for word formation or mantra formation.

Kalpa describes the proper method of performing the various ritual mentioned in the Vedas and its practical application with clear cut riders.

Vedas should be learnt in this above mentioned way and not from websites or from McCauley's system of education.

Generally vedam has two broad classification in its application
1. The portions connected with daily rituals or nithya karmaanushtana are called Karmakanda. It deals with how rituals like various yagas are to be done. It is called Purvakanda.
2. Portions dealing with philosophy and knowledge of Brahman are called Jnanakandra or Brahma kanda. Upanishads are the simple examples of Jnanakanda.

So the mantras that you hear and you mention as useless or "not suitable for today's life is just a small drop of an ocean.

Sir, I again (may be for the last time ) wish to tell you, "There are things around us very far beyond our imagination and just ridiculing something without even knowing what it is just childishness.

I dont say, Thriukkural or Aathi Chuvadi is inferior or superiour....I respect both Vedas and these Thamizh scripts for I know, both have tremendous amt of good things in it.

I repeat I am not a scholar, but I will not call names or redicule something, which I dont know about.

[bis_mala]

Scholar Dr S. Vaiyapurip Pillai concluded in his researches that the Vedic people learnt jOthisham from the Greeks. He has pointed to the number of Greek terms which have found their way into the Vedas. ( I do not have the references with me now.). Thus originality of certain aspects has been made clear.

Apart from the question of originality, one has to look at the parts incompatible with our modern era. Certain passages like the one on the establishment of warnas have had the most detestable impact on the entire subcontinent and its people. The virus may be immensely minute in size but what of its causation of consequences?.

[kannannn]

The vedas have 6 angas, namely 1)Siksha 2) Vyakarana 3) Chandas 4) Jyotisha 5) Nirukta and 6) Kalpa.

Siksha explains the proper pronunciations of the Vedas,

Vyakarana explains the grammar of the Vedic words

Chandas explains the metres of the various Riks and accoustic science assosiated with this.

Jyotisha delas with Universe and the movement of planets and stars around us. Even in Jyotisha, there are 2 parts(which is not in to the focus of the subject)

Nirukta contains the Sootras or formula for word formation or mantra formation.

Kalpa describes the proper method of performing the various ritual mentioned in the Vedas and its practical application with clear cut riders.

Vedas should be learnt in this above mentioned way and not from websites or from McCauley's system of education.

That McCauley sure knew how to enter any discussion on modern education in India!!

There is a fundamental difference in the way we perceive the vedas. You have put it upon a pedestal and even follow laid out rules to read them. I see them as just another collection of books. If I will ever rever the vedas as much as you do depends on what I find in them. A translation is good enough for that, because I go by their meaning.

Maybe, sanskrit is sweet to the ears and the nuances of the vedic hymns can be better understood through a formal course in sanskrit. But that is beyond the point here. Learning Ancient Greek is a sure way of enjoying the finer aspects of Homer's Iliad, but a good translation is enough to know if it deserves the respect it gets.

So the mantras that you hear and you mention as useless or "not suitable for today's life is just a small drop of an ocean.

Well, can't say anything on that. We disagree on our basic approach to the vedas. I still go by the translation. Upanishads - I will take them up sometime.

There are things around us very far beyond our imagination and just ridiculing something without even knowing what it is just childishness. I dont say, Thriukkural or Aathi Chuvadi is inferior or superiour....I respect both Vedas and these Thamizh scripts for I know, both have tremendous amt of good things in it.

I don't mean to start a fight here on what is better. I am still learning. If someone can quote, from a translation, the good aspects (that must be in a overwhelming majority) of the vedas, I am willing to buy the referred translation and see for myself. Maybe my attitude to vedas will change after that. But for now, what is see is not pleasant.

[srivatsan]

I don't mean to start a fight here on what is better. I am still learning. If someone can quote, from a translation, the good aspects (that must be in a overwhelming majority) of the vedas, I am willing to buy the referred translation and see for myself. Maybe my attitude to vedas will change after that. But for now, what is see is not pleasant.

The point is that you hav not seen vedas at all. If you say that a 6th standard physics text book is enough understanding the "Theory of Relativity", seriously I have nothing to say sir.....

[abbydoss1969]

If someone can quote, from a translation, the good aspects (that must be in a overwhelming majority) of the vedas, I am willing to buy the referred translation and see for myself

Yes, I have been looking forward to someone explaining the good points of vedas by quoting relevant slokas,(without getting into personalities), but no one seems to do so.

[srivatsan]

If someone can quote, from a translation, the good aspects (that must be in a overwhelming majority) of the vedas, I am willing to buy the referred translation and see for myself

Yes, I have been looking forward to someone explaining the good points of vedas by quoting relevant slokas,(without getting into personalities), but no one seems to do so.

It very very rare to find a scholar, who have learnt vedas in the way it shd be learnt. Those learned persons, unfortunately are not as aware as we are about such discussions and forum...However, I know a gentleman who has learnt the vedas in a way it shd be learnt and he is also little aware about these forums..I will try to approach him or I myself will spend time on this and try to quote something in this forum.....