IR and composers overseas...

[ananth222]

Aathma also has some great bgm. try this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?to93kmaeuwb
theres a baroque style flute (or recorder?) piece at 0:55 that builds up with strings at abt 1:05 and transforms into some mantra chanting - beautifully done!

[app_engine]

moondRam piRai -
A great movie that cannot be watched with family because of the silukku scenes. I hate that irrelevant portions so much, especially because this is one of my all-time fav movies.

Interestingly, it's those portions that have the classiest BGM by Raja that can compete with any international standards.
(And probably one of the best ever rhythms in a song in TFM).

[rajasaranam]

often I feel that IR comes up with a brilliant motif but never gets a chance to develop the same into a full-fledged long score - the best example is the theme for 'Lajja' which had a very original motif - but before it could grow on me, the theme gets over! tats the tragedy of scoring for Indian movies - similar is the theme for Pandavas (the one towards the end credits)

lets hear from other hubbers

Strictly based on my observation:
Its not the tragedy of Indian movies. Even If Raaja Scores for HW this may be the case, because its his inherent quality of not scoring on the whole and develop it, but scoring for the scenes/shots/frames and expressing even minutest of an emotion/feel that flicks past for few seconds. He will end the score abruptly if the scene ends too same way. (Havent we all read abt that magic timer inside his head). Yet he weaves a common thread to the overall mood of the movie.
But All the western composers grasps in the overall mood of the movie and score for it and tend to continue presenting it in variations as the movie proceeds.
A classic example would the Climax of 'kadhalukku Mariyadhai'. Had a western composer composed for this scene he would have grasped the whole mood of the scene and would've composed a thematic score depicting the excitement, confusions, awkwardness, guilt, sympathy, empathy, happiness everything and given a great score. Yet they would've missed what Raaja did here: He entered into every single mind of the characters playing here, every single shot presented to him by the director, singling out the emotions, filling in the gaps ,remaining silent where needed. That's style of Raaja! He may well be written off by the western world if he composed for their movies the only areas we can expect him to be on par with HW composers is the title or end title which will run longer than an Indian movie. There too I suspect he will weave all the themes he composed for the movie, put them together and present it to us.
True I've and am enjoying many scores by these composers, One of them is 'Jurassic Park' Flight Theme. I listen to this often without any dinosaurs entering into my mindscape and just enjoy it for the awesome feel of flying high it gives. But when I listen to any of Raaja's BGM scores, The images of the movie had I watched it or the images that I've created myself had I not watched it immediately fills my mind. 'Raaja' connects with the movie so systematically that his scores and movies cannot be alienated from one another. He is a unique film music composer unparalleled IMHO.

[rajasaranam]

Having said that about the 'film music' composer Raaja. There is this other composer Raaja who can give a run to any Western Classical Masters if he starts composing his own 'Symphonies' in its original sense. But there too he will fight the world asking why should he not use a 'udukkai'/'thavil' as a percussion instrument in a 'Symphony'. He will not find many takers for his understanding and presentation of music.
just thinking how they will be outraged if he weaves in a 'naayanam' & 'thavil' into a WC score for one of the movements and returns back to the violin ensemble
We are fortunate that we bacame fans of Raaja who had broken all rules and thrashed the holiness that surrounded any kind of Labelled 'music'. How daring he was that he took a guitar and entered the 'Banana Grove' in his first movie . A rare phenomenon in the history that he was accepted by the mass despite the outcry of purists for such daring moves he made in his early years.

[irir123]

rajasaranam - tats a very interesting observation you shared with us - hmmm coming to think of it further, I doubt if movies in Hollywood have storylines such as Netrikkann, Mahanadhi, where the entire script is written so as to show a single artist/actor's performance in a zoomed up manner - the script revolves around the stars and not the other way around! given these circumstances, I can understand IR focussing on each and every scene and abruptly ending the score with the scene - but for films like Moondram Pirai or Idhayathai Thirudaadhey(IT) both of which had some extended sequences in which a character goes in search of another, the mood of the score not only fits the mood on screen, but also transitions smoothly into the following scenes/ sequences and this continuity can be felt throughout even when the script becomes feeble but the handling of it is smooth (like in IT)

Listen to the BGM scores for "Tik, Tik, Tik" - there is one amazing piece which accompanies the scenes wen the abducted stars are being operated upon to remove the diamonds - thats both trancy and classy!

If IR were to score for a film like STAR WARS or Jurassic Park, most likely, he will have a separate theme for the different types of characters in STAR WARS and each type of dinosaur(!) besides having a central theme

how abt the percussion part ? strictly IMHO, for some of the run-of-the-mill masala movies, IR's percussion usage in the BGMs is an overkill - and rightfully so, coz those kind of movies deserved tat kind of percussion usage

[kingvj]

But there too he will fight the world asking why should he not use a 'udukkai'/'thavil' as a percussion instrument in a 'Symphony'. He will not find many takers for his understanding and presentation of music.
just thinking how they will be outraged if he weaves in a 'naayanam' & 'thavil' into a WC score for one of the movements and returns back to the violin ensemble .

that reminds me of HTNI's track "Do anything" (featured in "Veedu" when the old man goes to see the house.!). My first listening and reaction was "enna idhu..!?! endha instrument-a enga poyi use panniyirukkaru".. then upon multiple hearings, i realised that he was true to the track's title..and breaking conventions and boundaries that "WCM ippadithaan irukkanuma? tamil folk kalandhu WCM irundha enna?"..!

[raagas]

One of the most underrated scores of IR happens to be Hindi film Lajja. The score overtook my senses, when i was watching the film. The film is actually a disturbing film about Women oppression, but the score elevated the film to a different. It really deserves to be released as a soundtrack. Afterall, he went to Budapest philharmonic again, for Lajja.

And Raajasaranam, your write-up was interesting. I have a similar fascination for IR's BGMs or beautiful BGMs by any composer, be it in India or West.But then, my opinion is that every composer has his own shortcomings, be it exhaustive knowledge or whatever.A John Williams might not be able to do a Mouna Raagam. Likewise, probably IR might not deliver phenomenal stuff for Jurassic Park. Because the terrains are different. 'Anjali' had some phenomenal BGM and so did Any spielberg film with John Williams. we cant compare or interchange. everyone has their own strengths and shortcomings too.
Yet i strongly believe that IR has all that it takes to compose for any Hollywood film.The problem is he doesnt showcase it, with instrumental albums. Once he dishes out half-a-dozen symphonies, he will be sought after.but who wil convince him? Or let someone convince him to release RPO symphony first. That itself is a litmus test.

[Sureshs65]

I was thinking on the same lines when listening to some songs of Illayaraja from Guru. It is one thing to give a small theme and another to develop it for a longer duration. My feeling is that Illayaraja is one composer who can do both. As Rajasaranam says, Illayaraja ensures that he enhances each and every scene and the style of scoring in Indian films is different from the Hollywood films. I have listened to other good orchestrations from our Indian MDs for their songs but when the instrumental part goes for a longer duration, you feel the repetitiveness creep in. That is not the case with Illayaraja and Thiruvasagam is one good example. Even in 'Poovaar' song, where the tune is very similar in each stanza, the background score keeps changing so well. A complete theme based score or a typical Indian film score, Illayaraja can do both. Of this, I am fully convinced.

[kingvj]

who stopped IR from working on further symphonies, when the first one got shelved?

[jaiganes]

The subject is getting really interesting...
The best thing I like about raja in film music is his 'minimalism' - He can always do more with violins and extra array of tracks and stereo effects. However he takes the music to the most appropriate boundary between eyes and ears and leaves the audience to make sense of the story than his music. If you listen to his BGM bits (some of them) they are done low key - less beautiful - however the way they would compliment the scene is something to be felt while watching the movie. IF he gets the quality of directors and richer canvas (in terms of story, visuals)
I am sure he wil give a music commensurate to the scale - not overshadowing the visual and not keeping too subdued - the right mix to create appropriate experience.