View Poll Results: Your most favourite song in the album is..?

Voters
72. You may not vote on this poll
  • Ennodu vA vA endRu solla mAttEn

    34 47.22%
  • sAindhu sAindhu nee pArkum pOdhu adadA

    30 41.67%
  • kAtRai konjam niRkach chonnEn

    34 47.22%
  • vAnam mella keezhiRangi maNNil vandhu aadudhE

    33 45.83%
  • muthal muRai pArtha nyAbagam

    43 59.72%
  • satRu munbu pArtha mEgam mARi pOga

    38 52.78%
  • pudikkala mAmu padikkaRa college

    21 29.17%
  • peNgaL endRAl poiyyA poi dhAnA

    21 29.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 51 of 247 FirstFirst ... 41495051525361101151 ... LastLast
Results 501 to 510 of 2469

Thread: Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

  1. #501
    Moderator Platinum Hubber P_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    10,036
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bharathi's penury is because of his time. In an earlier era it was the norm for artists to be supported by Kings. At the turn of the centuries with printing, publishing and slow ground-gaining of the European model there was a distant dreamy possibility of being financially your own man. Bharathi was caught in the cusp. His temperament was unsuited to work as a court poet composing lurid (yes lurid!) songs for the ettaiyapuram zamindar for financial sustenance. He hints at his regret for having to do that (Bharathi Krishnakumar's recent book arundhavappanRi is about this dark phase in Bharathi's life). He mentions it in his long poem suyasaridhai.

    Then in fits and starts he tries to be his own man. He has ambitious plans for publishing and collecting money from people. Doesn't work. He has infrequent sundry patrons but wallows without support. The only time he had a steady stream of revenue when he was working in magazines like swadesamithran.

    The same ettayapuram zamin whom he thought poorly of he praises to the sky for money. He writes many a- what is knowns as - seettukkavi, pleading, literally begging for financial support and singing disproportionate songs of praise about the 'King'.

    Someone whom he paints even a slightly dirty caricature (thinly disguised), in his short story chinna-sankaran kadhai.

    Even his Panchali sabatham is dedicated to 'poets and the patrons who will support them' (i.e. he hasn't got faith that a publication business will take off yet)

    He wrote senthamizh naadennum pOdhinilE not on his own accord - it was for a contest on that theme organized by the madurai tamil sanham - which had a good cash prize (his detractors use that to claim, the lines were thus insincere. We need not necessarily conclude so. But it is useful to acknowledge the context anyway).

    To be allowed to reenter kadayanallur, he had to write a clemency plea to the local British administrator stating he would be on good behaviour. He did. It was around the same time when he wrote achchamillai achchamillai. Is the former going to colour your opinion about the latter? Doesn't the poem just scintillate anyway?

    Contemporaries have ripped apart Bharathi's lack of சொல், பொருள், காலம், யாப்பு mix-ups. He may claim he did it intentionally as a rule-breaking. But he is fair game if someone uses that for lack of control. On what basis do we evaluate 'prowess'?

    If we are to take the influence on people/masses...really we'd be overstating the possible reach - I say this with no disrespect. It is fact of the possible reach and technology.

    If we are talking about content. Sure, phenomenal. Even in content and outlook he has written many lines that could be unsavoury.

    So, if I were to play devil's advocate, I could make many such points.

    And lastly: just to be clear I am NOT myself comparing the two artists. It is as apples-oranges as it can get! I was invoking that simply as a way of framing, looking at kalai-cherukku. How I cringe when Raja says something but then I smile when I hear such things about Bharathi!

    And even here, I don't even recommend that as a universal framework. Merely stating my personal musing. That's all.
    மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #502
    Moderator Platinum Hubber P_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    10,036
    Post Thanks / Like
    -matter over-
    Last edited by P_R; 30th June 2012 at 10:31 AM.
    மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே

  4. #503
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber SoftSword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Vels
    Posts
    8,063
    Post Thanks / Like
    indha visaaranaiyil pala unmaigal velivaruginaranaa... sabaas...
    pr, oru thani thread pottu relevant things ellaam anga eludhalaamae...
    Sach is Life..

  5. #504
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,941
    Post Thanks / Like
    "ஆ நீங்க அப்படி நினைச்சா போதுமா? இதை நீங்க தகுந்த தரவுகள் தந்து நிறுவணும். ஒரு rigourous ஆய்வு முன்வைக்கப்படாத வரை, என்னைப் போன்றோர் இதை ஏற்றுக்கொள்வது கடினம். ராஜா தான் greater!"

    equa,
    ஏற்கனவே இங்க எம் எஸ் வீ - ராஜா வாய்க்கா தகராறு. இதுக்கு மேல கைய புடிச்சு இழுக்க வேண்டாமுன்னு அப்படி சொன்னேன். தீர யோசித்தா நான் உங்க கருத்தோட உடன்படுறேன். ஒரு அளவுக்கு அத நிறுவமும் முடியும். ஆனா பஞ்சாயத்துக்கு இப்போ கைவசம் சமயம் குறைவு. அதனால இங்கயே விட்டுடுறேன்.

  6. #505
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber genesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like
    What is very irritating to me is using specific attributes to place Raja higher in any comparison. These attributes are varied based on the person he is compared to. Just few of pages ago, MSV was put-down because his orchestration capabilities are not as good as Raja's.

    Now IR-Bharathi... I am not sure IR and Bharathi can be even compared. Different personalities, totally different era and excelled in different fields.

    However there are couple things that go in favor of Bharathi (first one has been already pointed out by baroque)
    1. Most of his work was not done for any monetary gain. Compared to what ARR and others make now, IR was not paid what his music is worth, but what ever it was, he did work for monetary gain.
    2. Bharathi is considered as revolutionary poet (not only in terms of content, but more in terms of style). Tamil poems are referred to as before and after Bharathi. IR can not be used as the before/after benchmark...He mostly stuck to the format and style used by his predecessors. He is the first or only one used lot of WCM elements - that's the only difference IMHO. Majority consider ARR as the before/after benchmark in TFM as well as IFM. (There were people who were using ARR style/technique before Roja, but ARR happened to be the one who took it to the masses)

    Again these are specific attributes and can manipulated to show different results, so I am not interested in any debate.

    Whether IR will be revered like Bharathi only future will tell. But HCIR fans in this forum and other places are trying very hard to make that happen.
    Last edited by genesis; 26th June 2012 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #506
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber baroque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    yeah.. thanks for bringing a good point.

    Bharathi is a pioneer of PUDHU KAVIDHAI!

    C.RAMACHANDRA, S.D.BURMAN, MSV-TKR etc.. all have done different styles of music.

    Whether IR will be revered like Bharathi only future will tell. But HCIR fans in this forum and other places are trying very hard to make that happen.
    Let them try....

    One step at a time for me...
    I hope IR of 2012 will give couple of compositions in NEPV for me to revere or go awe like Ninaivellam Nithya or Agni natchathiram!

    when I admire needhane pon vasantham...NN,
    I admire Kavingar Vairamuthu and Bala equally and thank them for being there for IR!

    I am a content fan, IR!

    vinatha
    Last edited by baroque; 26th June 2012 at 01:44 AM.

  8. #507
    Senior Member Platinum Hubber
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    10,586
    Post Thanks / Like
    genesis,
    There were, are & will be comparisons very many in the world. It can't be helped.

    Depending upon either the facts or the comparing person's bias, one will be upped and the other downed or sometimes shown equal

    And, it all depends upon the reading person's bias whether to get irritated or thrilled

    Coming to those in this thread in recent times :

    Comparing Bharathi & IR is quite far-fetched IMHO.
    oruththar iyal - innoruththar isai, reNdu pErun vevvERu kAlaththavar; ippadi pala vidhangaLil the parametric differences abound.

    The only similarities seem to be: (a) both are creative artists from TN (b) both with historic skill levels in respective fields (c) both with gnAnachcherukku.

    OTOH, I feel the comparison between MSV & IR on their artistic skills isn't that much off the mark.
    Parametric similarities are too many and the differences betwen the compared individuals is negligible on many but considerable on some. Some observations are based on facts and others based on bias. Matter simble, why kolaveRi on that?

    That way, BRangan using MSV as a benchmark is not too far-fetched. As long as he is willing to take the criticisms on the critic in the right spirit (and not arrogantly slight the posters as dimwits who can't appreciate poo-peN), it could pave for some interesting interchange of minds.

    Wait for a month or so for the mother of all comparisons

    VTV v/s NEPV

  9. #508
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,058
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by genesis View Post
    He mostly stuck to the format and style used by his predecessors. He is the first or only one used lot of WCM elements - that's the only difference IMHO. Majority consider ARR as the before/after benchmark in TFM as well as IFM.
    It's that simple as you pointed out. Well done! I would like take this opportunity to add to your excellent quotes. Even in WCM he has not done anything. He didn't do anything in folk. He didn't do anything in Indian Classical music. He didn't do anything in contemporary music. He didn't invent new sounds. I would say, he does not know music and he has not done anything. We all forgot one thing. There is no one called Ilaiyaraaja and that's why it is very wrong to compare against MSV sir. Now I am remembering everything. Roja came in 1976 followed by Puthiya mugam. That's the best way to put it.
    Last edited by V_S; 26th June 2012 at 02:11 AM.

  10. #509
    Senior Member Senior Hubber Devaraagam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    331
    Post Thanks / Like
    App,

    I used to think one common thing with IR and bharathi. GUTS to talk and do what they think.


    However I do not want to compare orange and apple because I like both
    Music Unities Everyone

  11. #510
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber genesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by app_engine View Post
    genesis,
    There were, are & will be comparisons very many in the world. It can't be helped.

    Depending upon either the facts or the comparing person's bias, one will be upped and the other downed or sometimes shown equal

    And, it all depends upon the reading person's bias whether to get irritated or thrilled

    Coming to those in this thread in recent times :

    Comparing Bharathi & IR is quite far-fetched IMHO.
    oruththar iyal - innoruththar isai, reNdu pErun vevvERu kAlaththavar; ippadi pala vidhangaLil the parametric differences abound.

    The only similarities seem to be: (a) both are creative artists from TN (b) both with historic skill levels in respective fields (c) both with gnAnachcherukku.

    OTOH, I feel the comparison between MSV & IR on their artistic skills isn't that much off the mark.
    Parametric similarities are too many and the differences betwen the compared individuals is negligible on many but considerable on some. Some observations are based on facts and others based on bias. Matter simble, why kolaveRi on that?

    That way, BRangan using MSV as a benchmark is not too far-fetched. As long as he is willing to take the criticisms on the critic in the right spirit (and not arrogantly slight the posters as dimwits who can't appreciate poo-peN), it could pave for some interesting interchange of minds.

    Wait for a month or so for the mother of all comparisons

    VTV v/s NEPV
    app - I am not complaining about comparison - but how it is done. Yeah, you are right about bias. HCIRF fans get irritated whenever an unbiased opinion is expressed. That person get immediately stamped as "IR hater", "Hidden Agenda", "ARR Fan' etc etc.

    I am very sure NEPV will be rated very high in this forum. I will judge based on whether GVM will ever go back to IR.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •