The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

[Sudhaama]

...
Chea...Chea... CHEAP ... and FALSE STORY.!... INSULT.!!!

Dear Mr. Nilavupriyan

// Was sahadevan the only guy to have gnana dhrishti??//

From where you got this false story?...FICTION?...CONCOCTION?

It does not form part of Mahabharatha...

...either of Vyasa in Sanskrit or Villi-puthooraar in Tamil.

Such a FILTHY STORY... let NOT BE SPREAD amongst the Society.

There are several such fictions and imaginary stories by several authors... like MAYIL-RAVANA....RAMA-ANJANEYA-YUDDHAM...and the like... totally deviating from the basic Epics...

...and so disegarded by the public especially the Scholars.

Above all such STORIES.... Your story is NAUSATING and INJURIOUS as well as SERIOUS INSULT

... to this Great Indian Heritage Treasure of India.

Will you please DELETE YOUR POST?...I feel much Hurt and Wounded.
...

[Sudhaama]

-deleted-

i read it in a weekly magazine..sorry if i had hurt anyone's feelings!

nakeera..u do a good job..continue!

Dear Mr. NILAVU PRIYAN,

Very many thanks. You have proved yourself as a Gentleman.

With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama

[Sudhaama]

...
War-Rules:SPECIAL / BREAKTHROUGH for Mahabharatha?.

WAR RULES THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOLLOWED !

WHAT HAPPENED ACTUALLY WAS ABSOLUTE BREAKAGE OF WAR RULES

Lets go through the rules :

The two supreme commanders met and framed "rules of ethical conduct", dharmayuddha, for the war. The rules included:

1.Fighting must begin no earlier than sunrise and end exactly at sunset.
2.Multiple warriors may not attack a single warrior.
3.Two warriors may "duel," or engage in prolonged personal combat, only if they carry the same weapons and they are on the same mount (no mount, a horse, an elephant, or a chariot).
4.No warrior may kill or injure a warrior who has surrendered.
5.One who surrenders becomes a prisoner of war and a slave.
6.No warrior may kill or injure an unarmed warrior.
7.No warrior may kill or injure an unconscious warrior.
8.No warrior may kill or injure a person or animal not taking part in the war.
9.No warrior may kill or injure a warrior whose back is turned away.
10.No warrior may attack a woman.
11.No warrior may strike an animal not considered a direct threat.

The rules specific to each weapon must be followed. For example, it is prohibited to strike below the waist in mace warfare.
Warriors may not engage in any "unfair" warfare whatsoever.

Unfortunately , many of these laws were broken at least once by both sides.

I will try to give examples of who & how the above rules were broken during the war once we start running through the day by day account of the war

Glad and Thanks... Mr. Nakkeeran...Welcome. You have taken good amount of efforts and pains to gather much informations. Please continue.

But I find several FALSE INSERTIONS too... in between. Please check up and delete such parts only....

... by referring to AUTHORITATIVE DOCUMENTARY VERSIONS on this Great Epic.

For example... No special War-Codes were framed...DEVIATING THE BASIC YUDDHA-SASTHRA... prevalent in those days, before and after Mahabharatha extending to Ramayana period too. We have to remember the War-Codes then were FAR DIFFERENT from that of the Present days.

...Whereas you are basing some of your arguments, indirectly taking the War-Codes of the present days as your YARDSTICK?

(1) There was NO Category of PRISONERS OF WAR (P.O.W) in those days. Only Two Categories : Friend or Foe. The War should decide it by means of Combative Valour. So the aim of every Warrior was to weaken and disarm the Enemy, especially the Commanders, ultimately making him TOTALLY DISARMED AND HELPLESS...

...forcing him towards only Two Options...

...Either accept the Defeat by Surrender to become a SLAVE or DIE in the Battlefield..

So if any Warrior refused to surrender... even after his helpless state as Totally Disarmed... HE USED TO BE KILLED.

Lord Rama is highly praised mainly because He was MAGNANIMOUS to grant exception to His Enemy...

...by asking him to return on the next day....either to confess or better prepared to confront and DIE. in the Battle.

If Rama would have killed Ravana in his disarmed state... Nobody could have found fault with him...ACCORDING TO THE WAR-RULES of those days....of both these Epics.

The Law Banning the attack on an Un-armed person...was applicable only amongst the Civilians... and NOT IN THE BATTLEFIELD.

... Whereas DISARMING is DIFFERENT from UNARMEDNESS....

"Intentional" DISARMING was THE RUDIMENT OF WAR...in those days.

Rather the purpose of Disarming is to make him realise his Combative incapability, failing in the Supremacy amongst the Combatants...

...Ultimately FORCING HIM to a Dilemma in the Battle... either to SURRENDER or DIE....No other Choice.

Even the acceptance of Surrender... by the Enemy, was left to the Discretion of the Dominant.

EVEN THE SURRENDERER could be killed in the Battlefield due to Distrust by the Winner...

... Treating him as a Traitor...WORSE THAN AN ENEMY...Or as a Future MIGHTIER ENEMY.

...War-Law could find No flaw in either sorts of decisions.

More To continue... after Discussions on this part.
...

[pizzalot]

Pizzalot, I think you are looking for something in the Mahabharatam that traditionally Hindus do not see in it. You are looking at it as if it is a moral guide. I don't know how the northern-revivalist Hindu schools treat it, but in traditional orthodox Hinduism in Tamil Nadu at least it has not had that status. I come from a traditional Vaishnavite background. When we were children, we were taught to keep people like Alavandar, Kurattazhwar, Cherachakravarthi Kulasekara Perumal and other devotees as our role models. For every great devotee there was some quality we were taught to emulate, but we were never told to behave like Yudhistiran or Arjunan or Vimasenan.

For us the importance of the Mahabharata is not that its characters conduct shows morality but that the story as a whole holds many religious and spiritual truths. An itihasam comes in nyanakandam, not karmakandam. I think Badri pointed out that the Mahabharatam shows that in Kali Yuga nobody can be perfectly righteous, because everybody in the Mahabharata has their flaws. The deeper lesson in this is that righteousness based purely on the old texts of the Dharmasutras will by itself not get you beyond a point in the Kali Yuga. Ultimately, in the end even Duryodhanan can argue that he has lived by the letter of the shastras. The only true source of righteousness in the Kali Yuga is the righteousness that comes when you surrender completely to God and let him guide your conduct. For those who have not reached that stage, the only true guide is following the conduct of those who have. Because they did not do this the result of the Shastric conduct of the Pandavas and Kauravas was that they brought destruction on everybody around them including their subjects who they were supposed to protect. This is the only moral lesson that can be learnt from the conduct of the parties.

We do not look for moral lessons in the deeds of Sri Krishnaperumal. It is not like the role of Lord Buddha or the imitation of Christ. Their significance is different. We are taught that the two avatarams at the time of the Mahabharatam demonstrate the difference between an avataram for the earlier yugams and for the Kali yugam. Balaraman is the former - he is disgusted by the war and refuses to take part in it, and he condemns immoral conduct on both sides. But Krishnaperumal's conduct is different because his avataram is a manifestation of God's role in the Kaliyugam. The avataram is not understood from the revelation of the Gita or the killing of Kamsan, but by the moment when Krishnaperumal walks as a humble messenger to the Kauravas. For us this is a very profound revelation about the relationship between a soul and God when it takes refuge in God. Traditionally, we did not even look for moral lessons in the deeds of Sri Ramachandran though because of north Indian influence some now do. The captivity of Sitaiammal had more religious significance in the Ramayanam in traditional orthodox interpretation.

I do not like to discuss my religion here because it is very personal and it is not good to talk about it in a place like this, but since you have been asking these questions for a while I felt it would be rude not to try to answer. I hope I have not upset or offended anybody. Sorry.

Thanks Mr. Podalangai. It is really interesting how things are different in different parts of India though we all read the same text basically.

I come from a back-ground and understanding that Mahabharath is all about good vs evil. I believe Sudhama Sir too was setting a similar tone. So my contentions on behalf of Dhuryodhan revolved around proving that it was oppurtunism that drove the war and not for the purpose of upholding moral values.

With this explanation of yours ( and if everyone agrees to it ), that Mahabharath was not an idealistic follow-path, or not a fifth-veda, I have no point left to disagree. I was only saying that Dhuryodhan should not be considered as an embodiment of all-evil. For his mis-doings on earth were considered very minor, to the extent that he served only 40 years in hell and thence-forward became a permanent resident in heaven even before Yudhistr` arrived there !!

[Badri]

Well said Podalangai!

And thanks to Pizzalot's efforts in kickstarting this discussion that these other viewpoints have emerged. As I had stated, both the parties had their flaws and they reapeed the results of their wrongful deeds. That, is the only lesson one might learn from this whole story.

To divinise the Pandavas as has been done traditionally and call them perfect is narrow-minded and bigoted.

They certainly didn't lead very happy lives either, and paid for their deeds.

As Krishna summarizes in the Gita, as you do, so you reap, and the only way to get out of this cycle is to give up the fruits of your actions.

In some ways, if one looks deep enough, the entire MB can be seen as setting the stage for the Gitopanishad! The word "Kuru" also means "action". Thus, both Pandavas and Kauravas are descendents of Kuru (or action).

And their attachment to the fruits of their action leads them into the cycle of suffering and enjoyment. To get out, the only way is Nishkamaa Karma or desireless action.

[pizzalot]

For example... No special War-Codes were framed...DEVIATING THE BASIC YUDDHA-SASTHRA... prevalent in those days, before and after Mahabharatha extending to Ramayana period too. We have to remember the War-Codes then were FAR DIFFERENT from that of the Present days.

Sudhama Sir, even if there was no explicit listing of rules we can still understand the rules of those days seeing the reactions of neutral characters.

Nakeeran, please assert your point with proof. We hope you are going to cover them in your day by day account of war.

[Nakeeran]

Sudhama : Whereas you are basing some of your arguments, indirectly taking the War-Codes of the present days as your YARDSTICK?

Mr. Sudhama !

I have not even started describing the war events . How did you conclude that I have based my arguments ?

I will ensure that the post of mine is with facts & adequate reliable documents as I have taken this task as a God sent mission to share with everyone about the great war & its consequences.

Thanks


Now, I am working ON THE EXACT TIME & PERIOD DURING WHICH THE WAR MIGHT HAVE TOOK PLACE .

I will be presenting this first before moving to the war .

[Nakeeran]

When the war was about to commence, suddenly Yudhistira , dropping his arms & ammunition, proceeded towards the Kaurava army alone & by foot !!

This made every Pandava worried - why our Chief is going alone towards the enemy without informing anything to us ?
Right from Arjuna to Sahadeva , the entire Pandavas got terribly confused by his approach .

However, Krishna quicky assessing the mindset of Dharmaputhra told Arjuna that your brother is going to seek the blessings of all elders !

Thus proceeded Yudhistira first towards the great Grandsire , the ultimate warrior on the earth - THE SUPREME COMMANDER OF THE KAURAVA ARMY & HIS GRANDFATHER - BHEESHMA

Saluting to him, Dharmaputhra requests him for his blessings that he should win the war ! Bheeshma , on his part, blessed him that Dharma will always win

Then, Yudhistira takes the blessings of Drona & Kripa & finally goes back to his troops.

Atlast, the Pandavas heaved a sigh of relief on seeing their chief coming back !

[Nakeeran]

When the war was about to commence, suddenly Yudhistira , dropping his arms & ammunition, proceeded towards the Kaurava army alone & by foot !!

This made every Pandava worried - why our Chief is going alone towards the enemy without informing anything to us ?
Right from Arjuna to Sahadeva , the entire Pandavas got terribly confused by his approach .

However, Krishna quicky assessing the mindset of Dharmaputhra told Arjuna that your brother is going to seek the blessings of all elders !

Thus proceeded Yudhistira first towards the great Grandsire , the ultimate warrior on the earth - THE SUPREME COMMANDER OF THE KAURAVA ARMY & HIS GRANDFATHER - BHEESHMA

Saluting to him, Dharmaputhra requests him for his blessings that he should win the war ! Bheeshma , on his part, blessed him that Dharma will always win

Then, Yudhistira takes the blessings of Drona & Kripa & finally goes back to his troops.

Atlast, the Pandavas heaved a sigh of relief on seeing their chief coming back !

[nilavupriyan]

how come parasuram and krishna be in same era?..

confusing..isnt parasuram an avatar of vishnu..

or the saint has the name of lord parasurama?