IR News and Other Titbits Ver.2009

[raagas]

Firstly i dont want to spoil the party, but still as you are pulling IR's leg again and again, i have to do this.

First thing first, from the beginning of his career IR has been appreciating and acknowledging MSV's role in tfm history and also MSV's influence in his life, MSV has been reciprocating it. And IR went to some extend to request MSV to work along with him in an AVM production movie, after came to know that MSV was not doing good financially.

Where as ARR never revealed that he worked for IR couple of years until recently, on top of it he said that he never listened to any of IR's work. On the other hand IR never opened his mouth about ARR. But the things changed post 2000 as ARR started to appereciate IR and now IR is reciprocating it.

So, please dont assume things if you dont have history on ur side.

I am not pulling IR's leg. I am only expressing my thoughts abt certain things which I, personally, feel are just as valid as they rightfully should be so.

It is surprising to read that ARR never revealed that he worked for IR, while i myself have seen many of his interviews, way back in 90s, in which he took the names of Ilaiyaraaja, Ramesh Naidu, L.Shankar and many others. Infact, in 1996-97 period, i was constantly reading ARR's profile as 'erstwhile keyboardist to Ilaiyaraaja'. One ARR interview (posted on a website hosted by some subramaiam) quoted him talking about IR as 'He is a legend in his own right and he is the only composer who has been consistently giving good music' (these remarks are etched in my mind, since i felt proud as IR fan). Then, I have seen one channel-V interview, a decade ago (in 1998), in which ARR quoted 'Oru Iniya Manathil' (from Johny) as his favourite iliayaraaja song. Ofcourse, recently he said that How to Name it is his fav album. So, this thing about ARR talking about IR only after 2000 is false.

I dont exactly remember who it was but I have also seen one post by a frequent hubber (and famous too) in this forum (or was it in orkut..shit i dont remember), who is a hardcore IR fan and expressed some disappointment over IR disapproving ARR's music - something which that hubber saw in a Doordarshan interview apparently. That hubber, despite being a IR fan, felt sad/surprise that IR made unnecessary comments in derogatory fashion. I myself read one interview, before 'Cheeni Kum' in which IR said that people might develop 'wrong notion' about music if ARR continues to make the music he was making. So, please dont think that I am merely assuming things.

My point is: he might be right or wrong, but such comments were unnecessary. a dignified silence is far better.

How many times we have seen IR talking about 'Popcorn music'? Honestly, i never liked all that talk of 'others are making popcorn, i am making full-meals' kind of talk. It is a different issue that i still rever IR, but frankly, i personally didnt like all that talk.He may be partially right (partially, because he too gave Popcorn music, apart from fullmeals, pickles, snacks, feast..etc). Even if such comments were not directed at ARR as such but at entire music fraternity as such, i felt it was not needed.

And IR reciprocating it?? I am yet to see it, not for ARR'ssake but for IR's sake (i naturally feel little selfsh about my idol to have big heart and inclusive attitude and remain non-controversial). This event... Lets see what unfolds.

[nanchil_guy]

nanchil_guy ,
what arr said was that he stopped listening to illayraaja's music , to avoid his influence !

yup i have already mentioned it here http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic....light=#1701722.

[nanchil_guy]

And IR reciprocating it?? I am yet to see it

I dont have anything to say amymore.

[jaiganes]

Firstly i dont want to spoil the party, but still as you are pulling IR's leg again and again, i have to do this.

First thing first, from the beginning of his career IR has been appreciating and acknowledging MSV's role in tfm history and also MSV's influence in his life, MSV has been reciprocating it. And IR went to some extend to request MSV to work along with him in an AVM production movie, after came to know that MSV was not doing good financially.

Where as ARR never revealed that he worked for IR couple of years until recently, on top of it he said that he never listened to any of IR's work. On the other hand IR never opened his mouth about ARR. But the things changed post 2000 as ARR started to appereciate IR and now IR is reciprocating it.

So, please dont assume things if you dont have history on ur side.

I am not pulling IR's leg. I am only expressing my thoughts abt certain things which I, personally, feel are just as valid as they rightfully should be so.

It is surprising to read that ARR never revealed that he worked for IR, while i myself have seen many of his interviews, way back in 90s, in which he took the names of Ilaiyaraaja, Ramesh Naidu, L.Shankar and many others. Infact, in 1996-97 period, i was constantly reading ARR's profile as 'erstwhile keyboardist to Ilaiyaraaja'. One ARR interview (posted on a website hosted by some subramaiam) quoted him talking about IR as 'He is a legend in his own right and he is the only composer who has been consistently giving good music' (these remarks are etched in my mind, since i felt proud as IR fan). Then, I have seen one channel-V interview, a decade ago (in 1998), in which ARR quoted 'Oru Iniya Manathil' (from Johny) as his favourite iliayaraaja song. Ofcourse, recently he said that How to Name it is his fav album. So, this thing about ARR talking about IR only after 2000 is false.

I dont exactly remember who it was but I have also seen one post by a frequent hubber (and famous too) in this forum (or was it in orkut..**** i dont remember), who is a hardcore IR fan and expressed some disappointment over IR disapproving ARR's music - something which that hubber saw in a Doordarshan interview apparently. That hubber, despite being a IR fan, felt sad/surprise that IR made unnecessary comments in derogatory fashion. I myself read one interview, before 'Cheeni Kum' in which IR said that people might develop 'wrong notion' about music if ARR continues to make the music he was making. So, please dont think that I am merely assuming things.

My point is: he might be right or wrong, but such comments were unnecessary. a dignified silence is far better.

How many times we have seen IR talking about 'Popcorn music'? Honestly, i never liked all that talk of 'others are making popcorn, i am making full-meals' kind of talk. It is a different issue that i still rever IR, but frankly, i personally didnt like all that talk.He may be partially right (partially, because he too gave Popcorn music, apart from fullmeals, pickles, snacks, feast..etc). Even if such comments were not directed at ARR as such but at entire music fraternity as such, i felt it was not needed.

And IR reciprocating it?? I am yet to see it, not for ARR'ssake but for IR's sake (i naturally feel little selfsh about my idol to have big heart and inclusive attitude and remain non-controversial). This event... Lets see what unfolds.

Technical experimenting with music and letting technology dominate organic film music is like synthetically cultured food dominating the organic foods/old world process . I feel Raaja is the last man standing when it comes to old world school of film music composition (Hollywood still has john Williams and Thomas Newman steadfastly in this area) in India and the camping is unavoidable. The success of one camp will crush the other camp equally. We are not talking about music and notes - it is computers Vs man. Even in technology aided decision supported processes cannot mimick the 'art aspect' influenced by human mind - However the modern music trend is to let the computer provide choices and MD choosing - instead of letting musical patterns emerge out of pure human inspiration.

[raagas]

Raaagas, you cant club YSR and KR together as IR's sons doign same type of music - they are a world apart in their musical philosophies. Yuvan belongs to the Rahman school - Karthik's headmaster is IR

I agree that Yuvan belongs to ARR's school of thought. But i am yet to listen to a pathbreaking album by him (agreed, i haven't listened to many of his albums).
KR.. I dont know. I didnt like much either. But i meant that, overall, YSR and KR are making music which is not that sublime enough. For me, even that is as much a pop corn as the ones made by others currently. I only meant/wondered - why constant bickering about popcorn music, when part of it is coming from his own house/dynasty. either disallow them to be part of it, or stop labelling 'popcorn' and simply move on.

[raagas]

Jaiganes

I agree with you. But the same John Williams or Thomas Newman or James Horner do not indulge in nitpicking about techno scores or computer-usage.But IR did it manytimes.whats surprising is he too uses the same technology, synth, computers.for that matter, compared to yesteryear great composers, did IR not use ahead-of-time-technology in 80s? If a S.D.Burman or Madan Mohan were alive in 80s, they would have felt even octopad or any synth rhythm pad that IR used, as machine and not organic. Then? even they could have criticized IR right.
We as listeners might feel - Organic vs. Techno ratio in IR is 80-20(suppose) while in ARR, it is 50-50(suppose). Taken, we as listeners are entitled to our choice of how much % or ratio we want and lap it up. But IR complaining that it is 50-50 or 40-60 is unfair, because it looks as if he is mandating 80-20 and that only that much means good music.thats unfair.why such emperical judgement?who shld decide that?

One can criticize or complain about any element only if he did not touch that element.today, if a pure classical musician complains about synth, we can admit that criticism but if IR does that, sorry, i cannot endorse it, no matter how much merit i find in the argument as such. My natural question will be "But u too did it right, proportions aside..."

[jaiganes]

@raagas

use is one thing and dependence is another.
IR doesn't condemn the 'use' of it. He condemns consistently the 'dependence' on it and the prevalent notion that mastering the science of generating musical choices with the help of technology alone is the be all and end all of music composition.
This is not with reference to ARR - he knew about music and his handling of technology is on a different plane - that is with understanding of the underlying patterns - but for laymen, it will appear that 'any one can compose' with the help of a computer and win accolades. Repeated interviews from ARR collaborators/ fans on his 'crazy love' for latest computer will only add to the fear inherent.
Raagas - I find it amusing that 'you too did it argument' against ilaiyaraja. Because he indulged in it as a curiosity only and his main bread and butter was from pure instrumental notes that he composed extempore.
With everyone jumping on Apple Macbook music composition bandwagon, people who used old world style lost out on quality players who wanted only sleeve note mention and not difficult composition playing sitting whole day in prasad studio. A generation of music players faded out while next generation switched to computers and 'I too will become Rahman' mode and Raaja was left with a reduced orchestra with a big gap to be filled with outdated synth pads - cheaper in price and quality for the budger he is operating with. If I am a composer and given a choice - keep learning latest sound mixing software or keep creating counterpoints for real flutes and violins backed up by bass guitar I would choose option 2 even if the studio is half full with only some synth to fill in the bass guitar shoes. Thats the choice Raaja is making vis-a-vis film music and I am glad he is making that choice still and sticking to the 'organic' style of music composition.

[app_engine]

Guys, I think IR's statement dissing "music after his days" - pop corn / plastic etc. - should not be taken seriously.

'நேற்று இல்லே நாளை இல்லே எப்பவும் நான் ராஜா' என்ற மனநிலையில் இருந்தவரை,
'முந்தா நாள் ஒருத்தர், நேற்று நீர், இன்று நான்' என்று சொல்ல புதிய ஆள் வரும்போது வெளிப்படும் சாதாரண மனித இயல்பு. அவ்வளவே.

If anything, it just helps people to understand that he is still only "trying hard" to become spirtiual but unfortunately far from reaching that goal, unable to untangle from 'Asa-pAsangaL'

Though it's difficult for people who grew up listening to his emotinally powerful music to separate his human nature & phenomenal quality of music, it's a fact to be understood and separated.

While all those politics are acceptable during normal times, and he'll still be considered normal, "Oscar-Time" is something extraordinary (just like TbI Time when ARR showered praises on Raja) and glowing praises on ARR from IR is in order. Again this need not even mean praising ARR's music but praising his "phenomenal achievements".

If he fails to do that, on the eyes of someone like me who have appreciated his music for years while treating his personality as "normal", it'll be a big disappointment.

I think all will go well and he'll shower praises on ARR on a stage in TN and end all these speculations.

[jaiganes]

@AE
Even his presence would do.
Because if he says something there will be 'data analysts' who would do psycho evaluation and pour tonnes of crude oil on him.

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

I am with you on this. What Illayaraja has been saying in interviews is that the computer has started making decisions. It is not about using a synth pad. It is about using an already available loop or some 'off the shelf' sample vs using your own brains to compose. Therein lies the difference. Raja wants every note and every beat to be his own while most of the modern MDs, including Rahman, don't mind using samples from various sources. So it is not about technology but about how much the human input driving the technology. This is what Raja says in one interview for a Malayalam channel. "Why are we not using our brains to create?" The current state is that no one is bothered about samples or otherwise. Everyone is satisfied if the final product is good. Maybe that is something which will not satisfy Raja. He wants to be a creator of music and not an assembler of music. Maybe old school of thought? Maybe not.