IR News and Other Titbits Ver.2009

[Plum]

jaiganes, thosee are 2 nice posts that you have written. Well put.

Entertainment, I wasnt serious about predicitng IR's speech - I am pretty sure he wont praise Rahman in that way. As I said, whether Rahman appreciates IR's music or viceversa is not an issue. It should not be an issue.

[raagas]

Jaiganes,

I understand and agree with it. But i just feel uncomfortable about the often repeated 'popcorn' talk. All said and done, everyone is doing everything. He can have an opinion but repeating it so often and then he himself using some popcorn elements is what i find strange. Bottomline: i wish IR too remains non-controversial, like ARR, while talking about others.

Plum,

I couldnt understand many parts of your post since it was in tamil. But i understood the intent of it, though not the content and thats where i agree with you.

Whatever friends, all our discussions will find their counter-thoughts on March 1st.

Lets see what unfolds.

[krish244]

It seems it was a deadlock in deciding on who would be the national award winner (for music) between "Roja" and "Thevar Magan":

http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-mov...-25-02-09.html

thanks,

Krishnan

[Plum]

raagas, you didnt miss much. I was grinding ground floor again. The summary is "Dont expect your idols to have the same values as you". "Values", "Societal norms" help in running the social machine smoothly. But if we start being fundamental about these, then the whole purpose of these is defeated. If IR doesnt praise ARR, or is silent about ARR, where is he being controversial? Controversy is in your mind here. Sheer societal pressure should not be the reason why IR praises ARR.

[Plum]

If what Balu Mahendra says is true...
For years, I had been thinking that the NA jury for 1992 was unfair in choosing Roja over Thevar Magan. Harbinger of a new generation as Roja was, I felt that that should not have been the criteria rather the rootedness and the intelligent BGM of Thevar Magan should have been rewarded. In my wildest dreams, I couldnt have imagined that Balu Mahendra would have been the chairman of jury that year. Ada paavi, neeya? Neeya ipdi panna? Nambave mudiyalaiye...neeya panna?

[raagas]

raagas, you didnt miss much. I was grinding ground floor again. The summary is "Dont expect your idols to have the same values as you". "Values", "Societal norms" help in running the social machine smoothly. But if we start being fundamental about these, then the whole purpose of these is defeated. If IR doesnt praise ARR, or is silent about ARR, where is he being controversial? Controversy is in your mind here. Sheer societal pressure should not be the reason why IR praises ARR.

Plum, Please read my posts - i mentioned somewhere that wish IR maintained dignified 'silence'. Controversy, as i said, is not when he is silent... but when he speaks condescendingly about others(not just ARR). What is mean is all that 'fastfood', 'popcorn' talk, which i think is unnecessary. I have seen it manytimes during 90s and even recently when IR said "music which ARR is making can give people wrong notions about music"(i read this interview). Now, as IR fans, we might still be accomodating the idea that probably he meant something else, but as such when a reader reads it, tell me what does it say? Couldnt he avoid such controversial statements. My respect for him did not dent even a bit, but yes, i didnt like it.

Why, in a 1997 filmfare issue, when Karthikraja was interviewed after he won R.D.Burman filmfare award, KR said "ARR is only a good musician not a good composer. I appreciate only his sound,but his songs, never". I was shocked to read that., because that was KR's debut (Grahan, for which he won that award) and he is already talking about someone who has been making music since 5 years before him(good music or bad music..whatever).it is not appropriate right.

[crajkumar_be]

Plum,
Talking about passing judgments and having opinions, like i said "humility", "political correctness" etc seem to be overrated sometimes. I agree with you there. And we can't help passing judgments on anyone from Sreekanth Deva to IR. Aana appadi paatha edha pathiyume namma pesa mudiyadhu, cricket, cinema, etc etc.. just teak kadai talk (naama pesarom, avinga *seyyarainga*)
Anyway in this case (or in case of my Aandavar) its more out of 'patru' and 'akkarai'

Now, to clarify one basic point - you are talking about musical appreciation, i'm talking about recognizing and "vaazhthufying" *achievements*, as a predecessor and a 'guru'.
Personality, working style, priorities - let them be different. Let an individual have his opinions and not be told by nobodies like me what to do, say and how. I'm just expecting an acknowledgement and a pat on the back for what Rahman has done for us. Is it too much to ask for?

P.S: Even in musical terms, while Isaikkadavul has the supreme right to have his opinions, ennala andha frequently used "popcorn" dismissal-a oru slight kasappu illama eduthukka mudiyala but thats a different issue.... raagas has already touched upon some points which i agree with. Its not just about passing an opinion but sometimes i interpret it as "this is good music, today's youth must listen to good music which i give...ALL we get today is popcorn stuff" (note the sweeping 'ALL' here)
[Raagas, please don't mind the Tamil, i'm sure you get the drift]

"The only problem i have is - he should not be saying it about others,"
No, no. I am not in favour of issuing ultimatums to artists - mavane, nee ipdi behave pannalaina, nee dhoosu da apdinu. Rahmanai paarataradhum paarattadhadhum IR's own ishtam. We have to understand this clearly - IR will appreciate ARR if he is really appreciative of his music. Apdi pannalaina, I will take it as his belief in his school of thought - and that is a pure, unadulterated-by-societal-norms mindset that I support whole-heartedly. Poramai, kiramainu solravanga sollittu ponga. CR, of all people, I expect you to understand this(based on the CR, the person whom I have visualised based on your blog, assuming I am right about the blog that I am thinking of as yours). Look, my job requires me to be at my best-PR mode all the time, and I know how much I lie to mediocre people to keep my fireplace burning. Heck, I am mediocre myself, and because precisely of that, I support an artist like IR's mindset when he calls spade a spade, and mediocre, mediocre. Who decides what is mediocre? Well, he does, ofcourse. Pinne, avar enna raagas definition padiya pesa mudiyum. As I said, avar appadi thaan. Lets not try to place our values on him.

If IR doesnt feel that about ARR but just comes and offers "engappanum katcherikku ponaan" platitudes, that means nothing to me. My view is he wont do it.That is my evaluation of IR, the person. In his old age, he has made a few compromises but certainly I dont think he will change his fundamental nature.
OTOH, if he comes and praises ARR, that will be true from his heart - I will take that as the ultimate enconmium on ARR because that would mean IR appreciates him truly.

[Plum]

ok, so I havent heard that popcorn thingy so I cant comment. I think I'll take Jaiganes's take on that - the question is how much you use technology and how much you depend on it. Music as such does refer to a system - so my view is IR's - that is, the establishment view of rigidity and fidelity to underlying form. If IR is fundamental about it...I am comfortable with that. If you guys are not comfy with that, I can understand that. What I am not so fundamental about is dismissing Rahman as "not music". I can 'tolerate' and 'agree-to-disagree' with the 'anti-establishement' view of Rahman and whole-heartedly appreciate his achievements in his context. I can even enjoy Rahman passionately when he gets relatively conventional, like, say Swades or Kangalal Kaidhu Sei. The music of KKS appealed to me instantly and there were moments there which I told myself "now that is so IRish". I also believe IR has a right to be fundamental on this - I think another key factor is IR holds spontaneity sarcosanct, and a fundamental aspect of music making and the music making process of Rahman is not conducive to that.

What I am not happy about is judging him by our standards - even though it is against democratic principles, I believe that people like IR(and ARR) should be given special rights and judging them by 'normal' standards banned.

[Plum]

"I'm just expecting an acknowledgement and a pat on the back for what Rahman has done for us. Is it too much to ask for"
No, not too much. I reckon IR will actually do it this time.

But my basic point about musical appreciation of ARR/IR for each other is not somethign we should expect as a birthright. Abusing them for that reason(like ARR never said he likes IR music, he didnt mention IR in influences and vice versa) is not on..

[crajkumar_be]

But my basic point about musical appreciation of ARR/IR for each other is not somethign we should expect as a birthright. Abusing them for that reason(like ARR never said he likes IR music, he didnt mention IR in influences and vice versa) is not on..

Very true but then just like i would have a problem if say, a purist Music Academy mama rubbishes Ilaiyaan's music as "polluting junk", i have a problem with IR rubbishes ALL contemporary music as "popcorn". Nobody can impose his/her opinion on the MA Mama or IR, but anyone has the right to disagree with such a view and express displeasure


[I do get the human input vs computer aided stuff thing but when someone says "innaikku irukkara isai ellam enna, popcorn isai dhaane", and on more than one occassion, i can't get myself to imagine it as a critique on JUST techno dependence. Lets not dive deeper into it. We have digressed enough. However, i agree that everyone, mortal or genius musician, is free to have his own musical preferences and dislikes, free of compuslsions of political correctness and niceties]