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29th January 2010, 07:25 PM
#11
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
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But for the advent of the Great Seer, SANKARACHARYA....!!!....???
...the Awathara (Re-incarnation) of God SIVA.!!!
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(1) Lord Gowthama Buddha, the Founder of Buddism, was born in Kapilawasthu, NEPAL.
So when Buddhism sprouted in India at Gaya, Bihar... it expanded around fast and spread its wings to Nepal too.
Some of the Buddhist mutts of such ancient days still exist even now... at Nepal, as a Standing-proof for this fact.
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[/html:7b5c15ac3c](2) After the Kalinga war, the Emperor Ashoka embraced Buddhism and patronised it highly such that his whole Empire spread over almost the whole of North India became the domain of Buddhism...
..beating out Hinduism.
Then the Buddhist Monks propogated Buddhism all over India... converting all the People to Buddhism, starting from the Kings.
(3) Consequently due to lack of Patronisation, the Hinduism gradually became almost exrinct, until the advent of the Great Sankaracharya, who revived Hinduism, the Vedic Religion.
(4) Adhi Sankaracharya took up a dynamic lead with a vow to rout out Buddhism and Jainism at the earliest,
...and Throne up Hinduism again at the earliest...
Just within a short period of 16 years... He travelled all over India extensively alongwith his main disciple assistants... almost by foot... in search of each Religious Monk Leader of every Region in those hard days
...and challenged them on the Veracity and Viability of Buddhism in counter to Vedic Religion, so called Hinduism.
Invariably Sankaracharya won over every Opponent Leader in the Debate and converted them back to Hinduism along with thousands of their disciples...
...conforming to the pre-conditions.
Thus Hinduism got revived prominently in North India.
(5) Then he took up South India, where Buddhism was firm-rooted with its Head-quarters at Kanchipuram.
He determined to fight it out at its capital itself and so established his Headquarters at Kanchi, and achieved his goal, by defeating all the Kanchi mutt Buddhist heads too.
Eventually the whole of South India too reversed back to Hinduism, only because of the Sole warfoot endeavour of the Great Sankaracharya....the INVINCIBLE of that era.
(6) How Buddhism got spread.... out of India.?
Because of Sankamithra the Daughter of Emperor Asoka... who travelled extensively out of India along with a Batch pf Monks and spread Buddhism...
....exploiting the widespread IGNORANCE, INNOCENCE and poverty of peasants...
...they could be converted from Hinduism (as per History -Not my Opinion)
(7) If Sankaracharya would have set his feet... out of India too...
Hinduism would not have lost its glory there, and Buddhism would have been wiped out almost radically out of India too.!
(8) The main point of Sankaracharya against Buddhism was... that Buddhism is NOT AT ALL A RELIGION...
..but the Human Code of Conduct... of MORAL VALUES...
...and NOT BEYOND... towards the Soul aspects... as is necessary to be qualified as Religion.
Because Buddhism is SOONYA VAADHA.... Does not clearly and pinpointedly speak about God, the Supreme Ruler of Universe.
And even within Buddhism there exist lot of Self-contradictions. .
... it got split up into several splinters... conspicuously with the two prominent Branches as KEENA-YANA and MAHA-YANA
Buddhist Monk- Heads of various divisions... used to constantly vie and oppose with each other...
....amongst themselves of one and the same Religion, Buddhism...
...which unhealthy trend helped Sankaracharya to rout out the whole of Buddhism easily..
....one by one of contradictory divisions.
(9) Concurrently Sankaracharya became cautious to safeguard Hinduism because of similar probable trend in Hinduism too..
...by means of several Branches as Saivam, Saktham, Ganapathyam, Kaumaaram Sauram etc.. within One composite Vedic Religion Hinduism
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[/html:7b5c15ac3c]Hence Sankaracharya's second battle was to correct such a SICKLY MAN-MADE ATMOSPHERE within one and the same Religion... the Vedic Hindu Religion.
So he went in search of each such Branch-heads, challenged them for debate and won over everyone of them invariably...
Ultimately he established the VEDIC TRUTH.. that all those Six main Branches of ONE HINDU RELIGION...
....Comprising of various Sub-divisions... as Saivam, Saktham etc ..the the God-made branches of MOSAIC FORM...
...being WIDEST OPTIONS... made available, suiting to the individual Mind-set of the multi-faceted devotees.
Rather they are the Branches of One Common Religion... Indirect Vaishnawam... with multi-paths....
...leading towards ONE COMMON GOAL..... Paramathma NARAYANA...
..since Lord Narayana is the SUPREME VEDIC GOD... who has created several other Gods...
..through whom Narayana, so called Parameswara bestows His grace... as the Common Protecor Ruler for ALL HINDUS..
...as categorically declared by Vedas.
Vedic Sankara-Bashyam, Geetha-Bashyam and Sahasranama Bashyam of Sankaracharya firmly assert....
....such an UNDISPUTABLE Vedic stand... quite clearly, undoubtedly and categorically.
Ultimately Sankaracharya could unite all those Splinters of Hinduism within on fold of Vedic Religion, so called Hinduism.
(10) But for the advent of the GREAT SEER Sankaracharya... the whole of India NOW would have been chanting...
...."Buddham charanam gachaami. Sangam charanam gachaami Dhammam charanam gachaami..!!!...
..similar to most of the present Thailand, Burma (Myanmar), Srilanka regions.,..
...wherein the Great Mahaan... the Reincarnation (Awathara) of the God PARAMA-SHIVA Himself...
... as Adhi Sankarachrya.... did not ever set his sacred feet.
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29th January 2010 07:25 PM
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2nd February 2010, 03:30 PM
#12
Senior Member
Diamond Hubber
Originally Posted by
Sudhaama
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...leading towards ONE COMMON GOAL..... Paramathma NARAYANA...
..since Lord Narayana is the SUPREME VEDIC GOD... who has created several other Gods...
..through whom Narayana, so called Parameswara bestows His grace... as the Common Protecor Ruler for ALL HINDUS..
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Sudhamma sir,
I am really sorry to say this, this is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'. This Narayana became famous, thanks to our cult creator and brain washing founder 'A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada during the 60's , it bacme cult amongst 'Gypsy' like americans in USA.. It was him and another film producer called 'Ramanand saagar' who bought this 'Narayana' concept, in the name 'International Society for Krishna Consciousness'
As you are aware shaivites completley rejects the above theory!
Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye
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3rd February 2010, 08:40 PM
#13
Senior Member
Diamond Hubber
Originally Posted by
Sudhaama
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(7) If Sankaracharya would have set his feet... out of India too...
Hinduism would not have lost its glory there, and Buddhism would have been wiped out almost radically out of India too.!
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Sudhamm sir
Pardon me, If I am wrong, didn't the Chola Monarchy rule south and central India during 'Adi Shankararchrya' period , ie. 7th century?? Chola's ruled burma, thailand, indonesia , malaysia, sri lanka and as far as Philipines??? Didn't they establish Shaivism there?? then how did budhism manage to survive in those places?? interestingly how did 'Islam' got spread 90% of Indonesia????
Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye
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3rd February 2010, 10:02 PM
#14
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
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Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
Originally Posted by
Sudhaama
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...leading towards ONE COMMON GOAL..... Paramathma NARAYANA...
..since Lord Narayana is the SUPREME VEDIC GOD... who has created several other Gods...
..through whom Narayana, so called Parameswara bestows His grace... as the Common Protecor Ruler for ALL HINDUS..
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Sudhamma sir,
I am really sorry to say this, this
is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'. This Narayana became famous, thanks to our cult creator and brain washing founder 'A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada during the 60's , it bacme cult amongst 'Gypsy' like americans in USA.. It was him and another film producer called 'Ramanand saagar' who bought this 'Narayana' concept, in the name 'International Society for Krishna Consciousness'
As you are aware shaivites completley rejects the above theory!
Dear Paramashiva,
Welcome to differ with me.
But please assert your stand by means of counter-points SPECIFICALLY....
..quoting from Sankaracharya's works and Biography.
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(7) If Sankaracharya would have set his feet... out of India too...
Hinduism would not have lost its glory there, and Buddhism would have been wiped out almost radically out of India too.!
.
Sudhamm sir
Pardon me, If I am wrong, didn't the Chola Monarchy rule south and central India during 'Adi Shankararchrya' period , ie. 7th century?? Chola's ruled burma, thailand, indonesia , malaysia, sri lanka and as far as Philipines??? Didn't they establish Shaivism there?? then how did budhism manage to survive in those places?? interestingly how did 'Islam' got spread 90% of Indonesia????
Chola Empire covered... partly South India, SriLanka, Burma (Myanmar), Singapore, Malaysia, Maldives, Indonesia and partly Philippines.
In Indonesia there exists a River… named KAMPAR River… as a proof of the spread of the wings of Chola dynasty there too.
Chola Empire was founded only in 8th century ruling over a large Empire for about 500 years upto 13th century
Adhi Sankaracharya’s Life-period was just for 32 years during 788 – 820 A.D.
...prior to Chola’s period.
No doubt, Cholas established Hinduism all through their Empire especially Saivam of Nayanmars.
Sankaracharya was so much over-burdened during his very short Life-time...
...that he could not have any time to spare for taking up the task out of India too.
..
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3rd February 2010, 10:15 PM
#15
Senior Member
Diamond Hubber
1) Adi Shankaracharya born on :- 788 CE
2) Chola dynasty was from 300 BC till 1279 right?
So surely 'Adi Shankaracharya' was alive during the Chola times, am I wrong?
Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye
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4th February 2010, 04:31 AM
#16
Senior Member
Senior Hubber
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
I am really sorry to say this, this is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'.
He does, at several places, as 'Narayana', 'Vishnu' or 'Hari'. For example, in his Brahmasutra Bhashya, commenting on sutra 1.2.7 (referring to meditation on 'Hari' in the salagramam); or in his commentary on Mandukyakarika, commenting on karika 4.1 (where he speaks of 'Narayana purushottama'); or most unequivocally in his commentary to sutra 2.2.42 (in the Brahmasutra bhashya) where he refers to Narayana (specifically, using that name) as 'paramatma sarvatma'. A scholar will be able to cite many more instances - these are what I can pull out. All this makes perfect sense if you understand what Adi Shankaracharya was trying to do.
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
As you are aware shaivites completley rejects the above theory!
Well, some of them do anyway, usually by arguing that each of these verses refers to something less than Parabrahman. Others don't (there are many advaitin communities in Tamil Nadu and South India which have no problem with Vaishnavism). I think the original Sanskrit is quite clear, but that's only my opinion.
Ultimately, the point is that it makes very little sense to project Shaivite-Vaishnavite sectarianism - which in its virulent form doesn't go much further back than the period of the Imperial Cholas - onto Adi Shankaracharya. It's about as absurd as trying to interpret the rivalry between the Cholas and Pandiyas in the light of DMK-AIADMK rivalry. Shankaracharya was not a sectarian Shaivite or a sectarian Vaishnavite, because sectarian Shaivism and Vaishnavism did not exist in his day, thank God.
ni enna periya podalangai-nu ennama?
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4th February 2010, 04:51 AM
#17
Senior Member
Senior Hubber
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
1) Adi Shankaracharya born on :- 788 CE
2) Chola dynasty was from 300 BC till 1279 right?
So surely 'Adi Shankaracharya' was alive during the Chola times, am I wrong?
The Chola kingdom more or less disappeared between the 3rd century AD and the 9th century AD. There are no records of the kingdom or dynasty during this time. The Chola kingdom was reestablished by Vijayalaya Chozhan, who claimed to be the heir to the Chola throne, in 848 AD (approximately). We don't really know what happened to the Cholas in the interim. It's much the same with the Pandiyas - they disappear between the 3rd century AD and around 590 AD when Kadungon Pandiyan reestablished the kingdom. Adi Shankaracharya lived in a period when the Pandiyan kingdom had been reestablished, but not the Chola kingdom.
ni enna periya podalangai-nu ennama?
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4th February 2010, 03:48 PM
#18
Senior Member
Diamond Hubber
Originally Posted by
podalangai
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
I am really sorry to say this, this is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'.
He does, at several places, as 'Narayana', 'Vishnu' or 'Hari'. For example, in his Brahmasutra Bhashya, commenting on sutra 1.2.7 (referring to meditation on 'Hari' in the salagramam); or in his commentary on Mandukyakarika, commenting on karika 4.1 (where he speaks of 'Narayana purushottama'); or most unequivocally in his commentary to sutra 2.2.42 (in the Brahmasutra bhashya) where he refers to Narayana (specifically, using that name) as 'paramatma sarvatma'. A scholar will be able to cite many more instances - these are what I can pull out. All this makes perfect sense if you understand what Adi Shankaracharya was trying to do
Podalangai sir,
I know he mentiones about Narayana, and all other names of God, but as Far as I know he does not refer naryana as 'Supreme being' he refers the supreme being as 'Parama Shiva' as far as I know
Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye
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4th February 2010, 03:55 PM
#19
Senior Member
Diamond Hubber
Originally Posted by
podalangai
Ultimately, the point is that it makes very little sense to project Shaivite-Vaishnavite sectarianism - which in its virulent form doesn't go much further back than the period of the Imperial Cholas - onto Adi Shankaracharya. It's about as absurd as trying to interpret the rivalry between the Cholas and Pandiyas in the light of DMK-AIADMK rivalry. Shankaracharya was not a sectarian Shaivite or a sectarian Vaishnavite, because sectarian Shaivism and Vaishnavism did not exist in his day, thank God.
I completley agree with you podlangai sir, but what really annoys me is the brain washed ISKON members , they are extremley fanatical, they completley reject the idea of Saivam, and promote vaishnavam as the superior. They are just blindly following a follower, who has wrote some books based on various upanisad, geetha , puranas and his 'OWN' views.. This seem more like cult to me than religious practice
Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye
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4th February 2010, 06:09 PM
#20
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
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Conforming to Devotee's SELF-ASSIGNED Faith, Self-centred Perception...
...Mindset, Propensities, Imagination, Will and LOFTY WISHES.!
....although CONTRADICTORY amongst themselves.!!!
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
Originally Posted by
podalangai
Originally Posted by
PARAMASHIVAN
I am really sorry to say this, this is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'.
He does, at several places, as 'Narayana', 'Vishnu' or 'Hari'.
.... All this makes perfect sense if you understand what Adi Shankaracharya was trying to do
Podalangai sir,
I know he mentiones about Narayana, and all other names of God, but as Far as I know he does not refer naryana as 'Supreme being' he refers the supreme being as 'Parama Shiva' as far as I know
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[/html:18b6fcc1a2] First of all, I am unable to understand...
..why this UNNECESSARY discussion...
....amongst WE, THE FOLLOWERS...
....on who is the PARAMATHMA .... SUPREME GOD....
....the Omnipotent ONE SUPER-COMMANDER over all other Gods.
Hinduism is the only Religion which renders ample Freedom and Liberty to worship and believe any Vedic God as the Supreme, at the devotees own choice... and WILL.
Yes. If a Saivite believes Lord Siva as the Supreme God / Paramathma... he / she is at Liberty to believe and worship so.
Similarly a Shaaktha believes Shakthi or Kali as the Supreme Paramathma, he / she can worship and chant accordingly....
...and parallelly the other Sectarians amongst the Six Sects... created by One Paramaathma Narayana...
..as Various Elementary paths towards One Common Goal...
...by Sauram, Gaanapathyam, Kaumaram, Saivam, Saaktham and SWAABHAAVIKAM.
The Supreme God created for the convenience of Mosaic form of Humanity...
....seeking PRIVATE Options at the devotees own choice..
...similar to various sorts of Food as Options.... while all of them render the same nutritions in different forms and Ingredients.
Accordingly various Puranas... other than the common 18 Puranas... depict different Gods' Greatness... CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER...
..such as Muruga the Supreme... the Guru for Siva....
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...Ganesa the Prime God who created other Gods...
...Vishnu and Brahma searched for the Head and Feet of Siva and failed by Adi-mudi Kaanhaa padalam (as portrayed by Nayanmars)....
..Shakthi Parvathi was defeated by Nataraja, Siva...
...Shakthi maatha is the Supreme creator Ruler over Vishnu Siva and other Gods...
..who as Kali, defeated Lord Siva...
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[/html:18b6fcc1a2]. ...and so on.
...to suit the specific sectarian's SELF-CENTRED WISHES... although they are the VARIOUS FALSE BELIEFS...
...since Not True... conforming to Vedas.
So to mean... all these Six Sects are the various IMAGINARY FAITHS... as the tributary Feeder-paths....
....towards the ULTIMATE ONE COMMON MAIN PATH ....VAISHNAWAM....
....as clearly declared by Vedas.
The most interesting part of Vedic Religion Hinduism is... that it renders as the Sixth Option named as... SWAABHAAVIKAM...
By which the devotee can worship any Doll, Tree, Mountain, River or ANY OBJECT of his own making too.... as God... if he can believe it so.
In such a case, the Supreme God enters into that Object and renders His Grace...
...making the Devotees Faith as True... even though a False belief.
Vedas categorically assert that the Supreme Lord Paramathma is Narayana only...
....and Narayana only the PARAMESWARA in different forms and Names.
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Krishna Chaithanya, Thukaram as well as even the German Scholar Dr Max Muller... have further clarified that Truth... in ONE VOICE.
Sankaracharya too... has clearly asserted such a Vedic Truth as Narayana is the ONLY PARAMATHMA.
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We can observe in Kerala Temples... even now-a-days...
...the devotees chant ACHA NARAYANA (Oh Father Narayana)... while entering Siva Temples ... and...
...AMMAE NARAYANA (Oh Mother Narayana)... while entering Shakthi temples...
...even if there may be NO SANNIDHI in those Temples... for GOD NARAYANA.!
That is the traditional custom laid down by Adhi Sankaracharya...
...to ELIMINATE ANY PROBABLE CONFUSIONS.... in the minds of Devotees on the ONLY Paramathma NARAYANA... as per Vedas...
...who bestows grace through different Gods, Forms and Names as per individuals choice and wishes.!
Vedic Religion Hinduism is extolled by Dr. Annie Besant, Dr Max Muller and several other International Scholars too...
....as the Great Religion... UNPARALLEL IN THE WORLD...
...mainly because of such WIDE OPTIONS... provided to cater to the varied individual devotees tastes and choices...
..conforming to the Devotee's own self-assigned Faith, Imagination and LOFTY WISHES.!
....although CONTRADICTORY amongst themselves.!!!
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