Raja's Gems - the latest one you heard...Part 3

[Sureshs65]

app_eng,

My situation is very similar wrt to 'Hey Ram' songs except that I consider 'isayil thodangudhamma' a top class song which can be ranked along with Raja's best. Other songs have not made a major impact I would say. As you said, it could be that Raja had to force fit the song into something which was already picturized and probably did not have much leeway. Compared to the other Raja-KH albums like Guna and Virumandi, I listen to 'Hey Ram' less often and that too I listen mainly to 'isayil'.

[Devaraagam]

good to see different opinion on HR...even though IR done it for already picutrised, I have a opinion that HR is one of the best from IR on the orchestration.

[raagas]

raagas,
Thanks for Vennilavin. romba munnadi 3 time kaetu iruken.
Beautiful fusion...

enna enna ragam iruku indha paatula?

Sriranjani raagam!

[raagas]

good to see different opinion on HR...even though IR done it for already picutrised, I have a opinion that HR is one of the best from IR on the orchestration.

I couldnt understand the aspect of doing songs for picturised scenes. Lets look at the film/songs:
1. Ram Ram - Comes in the end, with no lip sync - Hence it might not have been that difficult for IR.
2. Chaahe Pandit Ho - Comes with full lip sync - If IR composed this song after picturisation, he would have gone to Guinness Book of Records. Because, practically speaking, it is impossible.
3. Janmon Ki Jwala (Nee paartha): Am not sure about this song. It comes like a montage with Rani Mukherjee reciting poetry. Do you guys think, this is a lip synced one?
4. Har Koyi samjhe (Isaiyil): Background song
5. Prem Baan (Marathi Lavani): comes with shots that have lip sync and shots that dont have lip sync - This could be a song which he might have composed after picturisation.
6. Sanyaas Mantra: It is more in dialogue form.
7. Vaishnava Janatho - Lip Sync - given that this song is short, there could be a possibility that IR might have composed it looking at lip sync.

What I am trying to say is.. composing songs looking at the screen and reading the lip movement is practically not possible. I never understood the claims that he did it looking at scenes. It is believable if he did it for scenes that do have lip sync (he did that many times before all along 80s, 90s). but composing a song that obeys the lip movement of the actors on the screen - too far fetched! impossible, practically speaking!

whats your take guys?

[Sureshs65]

raagas,

I guess you do not know the background here. The songs of the film were first composed by L Subramaniam. From what we were given to understand from the press statements, these songs were picturized. Towards the time when the film was getting ready to be released, there were serious differences between Kamalahasan and L Subramaniam regarding the compensation to be paid. Since LS thought that what KH was proposing as a compensation was ridiculous, he walked out of the film. Kamal then surrendered himself to Raja, asking him to provide the BGM and give the songs for the movie. He couldn't use the songs given by LS. So Raja now had to re-create the songs using the lyrics as well as the lip movements and the scenes that were actually shot. Yes, it was an almost impossible thing but according to all reports, this was how it was done. Going by this background, you can see what Raja had actually pulled off. Kamal did not have to re-shoot the songs. (It would have been almost impossible given that the songs had people like Rani Mukherjee and Shah Rukh, who were the busiest people in HF that time!!)

[Plum]

I kind of back raagas here. I dont exactly understand how a lip-synced song can be set to a different tune, and if so, how different.
In a way, I feel, even if he did, it is kind of a mode where your choices are restricted and you choose. Like, there is only so much variation on tune you can do to that lip-sync and you choose one among those limited variations. Ofcourse, only a truly gifted composer can see those variations.

Unless we get to hear the LS versions, it is difficult to form an objective opinion on this. As a fan(atic), ofcourse, I'll uninhibitedly talk this up.

[app_engine]

Usha Chechi,
Sorry if I hurt your sentiments. I'll refrain from the pAtti usage hereafter.


Latest IR number heard and ringing continuously in my ear : 'engEyO, EdhO, pAttonRu kEttEn'
(PS-SPB, nathiyaiththEdi vandha kadal)

Very sweet!

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

Very true about the restrictions when you are retuning for an already tuned song. It will really be an interesting exercise to compare what LS had tuned and what the tune of Raja was. I am sure no one is going to release the LS version. Given the circumstances then, I do think this happened and Raja did compose for those already tuned numbers and ensured lip sync.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Isayil Thodangudhamma - One of Raaja's very best (Singing of the highest order too)
Raam Raam - 8 shots of adrenaline and awesome singing to boot
Nee Paartha Paarvaikkoru - Beautiful song

The only bad song is "Raamar Aanaalum", which is rank bad even by Srikanth Deva's standards...

[Shank]

I second what Suresh mentioned. I have personal knowledge that what Suresh described is true. There were also some idealogical differences besides the compensation issue.

That's why it's mind boggling to even imagine what Raja did for Hey Ram.