New age IR's Raga Choices

[Sureshs65]

The answer is simple. There is indeed a varnam, which starts as 'ninnu kori' in Vasantha ragam as well. The same couple of words, 'ninnu kori' start both the Mohanam and Vasantha varnam. Hope that clarifies.

[Gregorysab]

I revisited Mankanden Mankanden this morning. delight! Beautiful raaga and the way he treats it.. beautiful. now if IR does a symphony in this raaga, it will be so magical.

Ok, before other members pounce on me for being way too demanding, in my wishful thinking... let me end this digression so that we will get to talk about dhoni soon! Have a nice weekend folks!

[RR]

aakarsh.. I think you are just echo-ing the inner desires of all HCIR fans, whether or not we are satisfied with his current music.

I'll extract out the raga digressions as a separate thread for further discussions.

[Sureshs65]

We all know IR is beyond all these and can tune any song in any raga/scale or genre and for any mood. He has proved it several times. So whats stopping him..

.

Maybe the fact that he already proved it So that may not be a great challenge to him. Take a Sahana or Natakurunji and tune a film song. He probably knows he can do it easily. When he can do a song based on Gowlai or Nalinakanthi, it would not be too much for him to tune in some other ragam. I feel that though we may love to have him give us newer ragas, it may not really hold a challenge for him. Maybe the new genre like Jazz is holding that challenge. How can I keep giving variety and give different emotions withing the grammar of jazz. So while we saw Raja go full hog with Carnatic ragas earlier: Vasantha, Lalitha, Nalinakanthi, Gowla and what not, he probably is in a phase now wherein he is exploring something else. My argument has always been that most fans are left behind, longing for more of what he gave while he has moved forward to other territories. So now we get lot of variety in the Jazz framework, 'poo poothadhu', 'thenralum maarudhu', 'unnai patri sonnal', 'endukkamma prema','anadala lokam','mudi mudi','chengkadhir' and lot more.

i can understand what the HCIRF wants but I am also trying to understand the creator's perspective. I do not go with Kamal's thinking that new ragas are 'not coming' to him. As I said, he is exploring newer paths and it is fascinating for me to find out what he is trying to do. It is just our own limitation that we set on newer ragas because our imagination is limited. From all evidence, Raja's imagination is unbounded. So I personally try and figure out what he is doing nowadays. Though i may not have a parallel to it from his earlier work, it still connects.

[V_S]

Suresh ji at his best! I fully concur with your views.

[V_S]

Thanks a lot RR for taking pains to create this new thread. You are one truly dedicated hubber and as Plum said, an unsung hero. Really appreciate your efforts.

[RR]

Suresh,

That's a good hypothesis I have no issues with him exploring jazz or other stuff. That's the creator's space for innovation & experimentation. May befit his other movies (though I think 'common man' watching a 'commercial movie' feels left out by his current sort of elitist approach). But for movies like SRR..? That's where we started this discussion. As I already said, more than cliched ragas.. if I can say, a HCIR fan can feel much of cliched music in this album. (well.. not entirely but several songs..) Though I would think he can do much more with just the ragas he has already chosen and give completely fresh tunes, the choice of ragas could just be the reason for the deja vu feeling. I'm not implying that complex ragas is the only solution, the point is we want him not get complacent but go one more level up in innovation.. Just my thoughts, or rather aadhangam

[RR]

V_S, tks but no formalities pls. IR is the hero here.. we are all his thondargal equal

[Gregorysab]

Maybe the fact that he already proved it So that may not be a great challenge to him. Take a Sahana or Natakurunji and tune a film song. He probably knows he can do it easily. When he can do a song based on Gowlai or Nalinakanthi, it would not be too much for him to tune in some other ragam. I feel that though we may love to have him give us newer ragas, it may not really hold a challenge for him. Maybe the new genre like Jazz is holding that challenge. How can I keep giving variety and give different emotions withing the grammar of jazz. So while we saw Raja go full hog with Carnatic ragas earlier: Vasantha, Lalitha, Nalinakanthi, Gowla and what not, he probably is in a phase now wherein he is exploring something else. My argument has always been that most fans are left behind, longing for more of what he gave while he has moved forward to other territories. So now we get lot of variety in the Jazz framework, 'poo poothadhu', 'thenralum maarudhu', 'unnai patri sonnal', 'endukkamma prema','anadala lokam','mudi mudi','chengkadhir' and lot more.

i can understand what the HCIRF wants but I am also trying to understand the creator's perspective. I do not go with Kamal's thinking that new ragas are 'not coming' to him. As I said, he is exploring newer paths and it is fascinating for me to find out what he is trying to do. It is just our own limitation that we set on newer ragas because our imagination is limited. From all evidence, Raja's imagination is unbounded. So I personally try and figure out what he is doing nowadays. Though i may not have a parallel to it from his earlier work, it still connects.

i do understand your point suresh - that he has moved on other other territories. But i dont think Raaja would dismiss a sahana or natakuranji just like that - feeling that it is easy. If it were so, he would have dismissed a Maayamalavagowla long back - given that it is a cakewalk for him. or even a Mohana, which is even more cakewalk for him (and even for chinese ). Instead, there are these set of raagas he is still exploring. it is not that he has completely given up these scales and began exploring hard core jazz. he still doing a bit of both (or everything). and he was doing a bit of everything even in 80s. he did not sacrifice the thought of exploring a Nalinikanthi - for the sake of a pure Western Classical Symphonies (especially when a Kalaignan came around the same time when he was commissioned to do a Symphony with London Symphony Orchestra). What I am saying is - I really appreciate & am in awe of the fact that he is still learning and exploring a genre like Jazz. But this aspect of "learning and exploring" was there back then as well - with say, western classical. yet, he did go full throttle in his choice of raagas.

And though a lot of fans do want him to repeat his 80s, I am sure most of us here appreciate his recent work and are not really stuck. It is not the same 80s music that we want. But it is the philosophy that he applied to his creations back then, that we want, but in newer/contemporary forms. And whenever raaja delivers it, they are unanimous winner - like say "Kunnathe" from Pazhassi Raja or "Ilangaatru veesaye" from Pithamagan. The soul is same. the robes are new.

And I really dont think that Raaja would summarily dismiss off a Bahudari as a "I can do it easily" or "I have nothing to explore there and hence I will not" kind of thought. If thats the case, then there wouldnt have been even a Saaranga in Padithurai. Also, we know that true/sincere artists do not really undermine (the beauty of) any raaga or even any genre as such (which is why he is fascinated with jazz now). And I believe and I am sure we all here believe - Raaja is a true artist.

PS1: That it is easy for him to explore such raagas - is a fact that WE know. but, as an artist, I am sure he wouldnt be viewing things in such flippant light! Just a thought!

PS2: Not that I am unhappy about his jazz explorations! but, like I said - it is exciting to even imagine Raaja doing a Bahudari fusion or a late-night romantic number in Poornachandrika! because, i again highlight, I dont see anyone else capable of pulling that off!

[Gregorysab]

Also, I dont think the title of this thread is 'completely' justified! I feel he is using unconventional raagas, but only few times. Can we change the title of this thread to "Raaja Raagas in Post-2000 era"?