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16th August 2005, 05:08 PM
#1
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Will Indian cricket never learn from it's mistakes?
A new season has started-a new captain,a new coach,new tactics.
But how was the beginning?-the SAME OLD story.
The team lost 3/3 to Lanka out of which two was there for their taking but as only the Indian team can,they contrived to lose.
Will the cricketers ever display traits like a common sense&an absolute dedication to WIN?Why are they so laid back&lack lustre in their approach?
To add to this,the selectors too play a strange game of musical chairs. They are more keen in keeping the powers that be(Jagmohan Dalmiya)happy than thinking about the future of the team?
Instead of giving Dravid a full season as captain,they give him a series&add Ganguly to the team at the last minute.What does that mean?-you better win this series or you lose the captaincy.
What has Saurav done to deserve a place in the team,forget being captain?
Then they go ahead&drop Kumble????,Balaji????????&bring in of all people Ajit Agarkar???????????????
Do these men have something called VISION?
Is it not time for us fans&the media to stop hyping up this team&accept the fact that it's just a rag-tag bunch of talented individuals who can't do simple things right consistently.
As Harsha Bhogle commented in one of his columns,India are at No 7(in the ICC ratings),played like one&will continue to languish there unless they get their basics right.
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16th August 2005 05:08 PM
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16th August 2005, 06:08 PM
#2
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
cinefan!
well said.
Add to this the stories on factionalism in Indian cricket team.
Also the inability to create a momentum out of a win(rarely they do!!). that can be attributed only to players playing in one game to stay in the team and in the tournament and fissling out later because of complacency.
Players like Yuvaraj and Kaif fire once in 12 to 13 games. Players like Sourav don't fire at all. Players like Harbhajan fire only against weaker opponents.
Zaheer khan's runup is aster than delivery and his followthrough is longer than the run up of freddy flintoff. Can anyone explain why he is in the team? just because he yorked steve waugh millions of years ago?
If you can solve all these puzzles and then come back to what is actually happening between Saourav-Dravid-Sachin-Coach, then you can crack this puzzle successfully!!!
Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
- Gore Vidal
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26th August 2005, 08:02 PM
#3
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Players like Yuvaraj and Kaif fire once in 12 to 13 games
Both were doing reasonably well until the recent series against Pakistan..
Both are coming back to form now.. We should give some more time.
Players like Sourav don't fire at all
Sourav is one of the best one day players India had produced. Agreed , one should not thrive on past glory but definitely Saurav has atleast another 2 years of cricket left in him...
Players like Harbhajan fire only against weaker opponents
I wonder how did arrive at this conclusion ??Turbanator might not have taken more wickets but definitely had contained the runs well..
Zaheer khan's runup is aster than delivery and his followthrough is longer than the run up of freddy flintoff. Can anyone explain why he is in the team? just because he yorked steve waugh millions of years ago?
Having nurtured him in the last 2 years, he needs to be given another opportunity... Definitely will do well in the future..
We have hired a high cost Foreign Coach .... Mr.Greg Chappell should bring in all his AUSTRALIAN APPROACH to Indian team....
England has already copied the Aussie model of being very very aggressive.... I mean Flintoff... Jones.....Trescothick...Waugn.....
Today they are doing well due to their aggressive approach copied from Aussies....They have started scoring at 4 runs per over which India also should start doing ...
First we should stop playing against Grade 2 countries like Zimbabawe....Bangaladesh .....
Should play more against England... Australia.... IN THEIR COUNTRY... not in India....
Create more Bouncy and fast wickets......
Look at today's plight.... Bond continues to be India's nightmare... as he is a genuine fast bowler..............
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26th August 2005, 08:07 PM
#4
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Kumble should be preserved for Tests so that he will last for another 3 years…. Definitely has the staying power in the longer version…..
In his place, Murali Karthik can be tried for onedays….. who has good potential
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26th August 2005, 08:14 PM
#5
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Persisting with Dravid as a Captain means closing the doors for Ganguly…. Virtually…… Ganguly lost his place for 2 reasons….. the slow bowling rate judgement and failure in batting…..
I think Ganguly still has atleast 2 years of cricket left IN ONEDAYS…. And should be retained ….. Probably should lead up to next world cup……
After all, Ganguly had done well as a Captain…… All he needs now is to score some runs which I am sure he will do it….
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27th August 2005, 01:24 AM
#6
Senior Member
Senior Hubber
Balaji,
Your comments seem to be good for an upcoming team, not for a team which made the world cup finals a couple of years back and where considered among the Top 3... We keep talking about Talent and youth, but the same team that was playing so well two years back has been close to being awful in the last few months..
Part of it is the schedule where our guys dont play international cricket for almost 5-6 months in a row.. Even when they play its a triangular tournament involving 5 games or a one day series involving 3 games.... A tour of 3 months where you play 5-7 onedayers and 5 tests is what gives the players international experience , not a triangular tournament in kenya or zimbabwe or srilanka which involves either bangladesh, Kenya or zimbabwe... We have seen India make the finals in every triangular tournament by defeating the weaker team only to lose in the finals..
Next is our selection committee... You drop a developing young bowler like Balaji and bring in a guy Agarkar who has failed umpteen number of times in the international scene.. The BCCI have realized that no matter what is the result, people are going to keep watching cricket in India.. So instead of putting a team that could actually win, gather a team that could benefit the selectors in some way (financially or in other ways)... This has been happening for years when Shivlal yadav got in guys like Noel David and Gundappa Vishwanath got in players who were not even fit to be in State teams..
Performing in the field : Ganguly's failure to accept criticisms... Ganguly better stop talking about what he has done over his international career and start performing on the field... Everyone knows that he has hit 10,000 + runs in international cricket, but what have you done lately is the deciding factor in international cricket.. Sehwag has to know that he has to stay for sometime in the wicket before going for his shots.. Invariably we find India 10-1 or 20-1 within the first 5 overs...
When there is such a political debate and fighting going over being the president of a Cricket board, you can understand how much the position would mean to a person and how it would benefit him... Cricket in India is becoming more of a business for certain people and players, whereas its the passion among millions of fans throughout the country...
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27th August 2005, 10:51 AM
#7
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Thiru,
About Politics in Indian Cricket.....
You know well that its going on for the last 30 years ever since Sunny and Bedi days....
I think we will have to live with this sad thing as Indian cricket is big commercial activity now.... Sponsors and ads dominate Indian cricket.... the kind of money involvement ....... it amazing to note....
What you mentioned about VIshy... bringing in his group his absolutely right... Having watched Vishy's playing days and the kind of sportsmanship he displayed... I am stunned by his role as a Chief of Selectors.....
Sachin factor.....
Even Sachin's match winning days seem to be over now.... I have not seen him playing extremely well ... either to win matches or to save a test atleast..
There are numerous occasions... in recent times... Sachin did not fire ... to his potential........especially the finals of all the tournaments we had lost in the last 2 years... including Natwest ....
Even in tests.... he could not do well in crucial tests like in Melbourne....
Even in the world cup final...agreed 340+ chasing is not a joke... but there was no need for him to go for big shots in the first over itself... that too against Mcgrath....
What he does is coming up with a big score in one inning which makes up for his lost average in other innings in a series... in the final analysis... the average remains intact.....
The sooner, we find a good alternative for Sachin, its better for Indian Cricket......as he also bogged down by injuries.....
Ganguly....
Agreed he is not that forceful player of the past but definitely needs to be given another chance to reestablish ... both as a captain and also as a batsman... probably for Onedays... while Dravid can be persisted for Tests.......
Greg Chappell....
More than anybodyelse... this guy will be keenly watched by the Critics ( past players of India ) and he will be on the firing line now.....He should bring in the Australian approach to Indians.....
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27th August 2005, 11:18 AM
#8
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Ajit Agharkar….
Could be the most influential guy in Cricket as he keeps on coming back with no credible performances…..Even the century he scored in England was against a virtually sealed match when England were certain of a victory… with a huge margin….I wish this century is taken away from the record…. As this will time and again will be applied for chosing Agharkar…. as a so called All rounder…..
May be the Shastris and Gavaskars are playing their part in Agharkar's selection.......
Chosing Agharkar ahead of Balaji… is a cardinal sin……. Hope Balaji doesn’t get demotivated by this sinful act of selectors……He should keep focusing on his bowling and finetune them ….. besides maintaining his fitness levels….
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27th August 2005, 01:42 PM
#9
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
West Indies dominated Cricket for a decade 1970's to 1980's...
After that India won the World Cup..Remember only world cup! After that West Indies came to India ..... gave a big blow ... saying that "You are not big team..boss u have to grow up!"
But i wonder about one team- Australia
Look at their records
1975 World cup
Australia - Final, but losed to West-Indies
1979 World Cup
Australia- Very very poor performance they beat Canada but losed to England,Pakistan
1983-World cup
Australia- Quarter Finals
1987-World Cup
Australia - Won the World cup
1992-World cup
Australia- Quarter Finals
1996-World Cup
Australia- Final but losed to Sri-Lanka
1999-World Cup
Australia - Won the world cup
2002-World cup
Australia - Won the world cup
This is called consistent..consistent for more than 3 decades except 1979 world cup all the other cups they did reasonably well.
Indians on the other hand
1975- World cup
India beat only East Africa..and losed to England and Newzealand
1979-World cup
India losed to all the teams
1983-World cup
India won the world cup
1987-World cup (Played at India)
India reached semi final but losed to England
1992-World cup
India had a mixed luck....but didn reach Semi-Finals
1996-World cup
India reached Semi-finals but losed to Srilanka
1999-World cup
India reached super-six but failed to enter semi
2002-World cup
India reached final but losed to Australia
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Now the stats shows the performance of both the team..But What about playing with other teams
Australia in One Day Internationals
Against Played Won Lost NR/Tied
Bangladesh 9 8 1 0
Canada 1 1 0 0
England 85 47 34 4
India 80 49 27 4
Kenya 4 4 0 0
Namibia 1 1 0 0
Netherlands 1 1 0 0
New Zealand 97 68 26 3
Pakistan 74 43 27 4
South Africa 56 29 24 3
Scotland 1 1 0 0
Sri Lanka 55 36 17 2
USA 1 1 0 0
West Indies 108 49 55 4
Zimbabwe 27 25 1 1
TOTAL 600 363 212 25
Against team in which Win>Lose
Ecept Wesrt Indies...all the teams!!!!!!!
On the other hand India
India in One Day Internationals
Against Played Won Lost NR/Tied
Australia 80 27 49 4
Bangladesh 14 13 1 0
East Africa 1 1 0 0
England 51 24 25 2
Kenya 13 11 2 0
Namibia 1 1 0 0
Netherlands 1 1 0 0
New Zealand 72 35 33 4
Pakistan 101 35 62 4
South Africa 46 16 28 2
Sri Lanka 82 41 34 7
UAE 2 2 0 0
West Indies 78 30 46 2
Zimbabwe 47 37 8 2
TOTAL 589 274 288 27
Against team in which Win>lose
Bangladesh,East Africa,Kenya,Namibia,Nethrlands,Newzealand,UAE,Sri lanka,Zimbabwe
So from these stats..we can come to a conclusion about the weakness of the Indian team..They didn learn from the past mistakes no not at all
India is not having proper fast bowler..can any one show a fast bowler in India whose econ.rate is less than 4.5
Zaheer Khan - Not as consistent as Chamindha vaas
Ajit Agarkar- I dunno why he is in the team
Nehra- Shines once in a blue moon
Balaji-impressed initially..but not now
We dont have proper wicket keeping batsman after Nayan Mongia... Saba Karim was there then Parthiv,Dhoni..and i left one or two i don remember...
Under New coach,Sourav Ganguly captaincy
India losed 3/3 to Srilanka
Won 2/2 to Westindies
Losed 1/1 to Newzealand
So total playes 6 matches Won 2 and losed 4
Where they have learned...India will also never learn this mistake even after a decade or so.... Pity of Indian fans (Includes me )
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27th August 2005, 02:50 PM
#10
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Beckham,
You have missed out the Cup which we won under Sunny in Australia . Virtually the same team which was instrumental in winning 1983 world cup..
Probably the best ever team we had was those !
I think the major problem with the current Indian team has been inability to win the finals… Probably what South Africa had earlier under Hansie Cronje…we are going through now…. It all started with the Nairobi Knockout under Saurav when we played extremely well but lost to Newzealand in the finals….
All started from there and still we could not win a final ( except Natwest… that too was an incredible performance from Yuvi and Kaif )….
Probably if Greg Chappell can focus on the real problem that our guys are facing in the finals…. Especially on the bowling front… where we have been giving more runs… and the scores getting ended up with 280+ … that area if its focused… we can expect better results……..
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