New age IR's Raga Choices

[KV]

I've been looping on this song for the last couple of days - Oh Prema Devathe from Gulabi (Kannada), sung by IR and Chitra. Another hauntingly lovely duet, possibly from the mid/late 90s. I'm not able to place what ragam this falls into. The scale seems to be S G2 M2 P D3 N3 S, S N3 D3 P M2 G2 S (or replace the G2 with R3). There doesn't appear to be a ragam with this aro/avaro. The closest match is one of Rasikapriya's janya, Ishtārangini - S R3 M2 P N3 S, S N3 D3 P M2 G3 R3 S, but this has G3 in it.
There's some resemblance to Kannammaa kaadhal ennum kavidhai solladi at some places, but Kannamma has a sure R2 in it while the Gulabi song doesn't.
When the charanam goes prema vaahini, it kinda gives a lag in the tune, but he then follows it up with a brilliant pallavi connector!

http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song...3368b14bdab6d4

[baroque]

KV,

oh...prema devathe......




remember en kanavinai kel namba...... Cheran movie tune too carries the same humming/ similar tune elongations

Vinatha

[vel]

I've been looping on this song for the last couple of days - Oh Prema Devathe from Gulabi (Kannada), sung by IR and Chitra. Another hauntingly lovely duet, possibly from the mid/late 90s. I'm not able to place what ragam this falls into. The scale seems to be S G2 M2 P D3 N3 S, S N3 D3 P M2 G2 S (or replace the G2 with R3). There doesn't appear to be a ragam with this aro/avaro. The closest match is one of Rasikapriya's janya, Ishtārangini - S R3 M2 P N3 S, S N3 D3 P M2 G3 R3 S, but this has G3 in it.
There's some resemblance to Kannammaa kaadhal ennum kavidhai solladi at some places, but Kannamma has a sure R2 in it while the Gulabi song doesn't.
When the charanam goes prema vaahini, it kinda gives a lag in the tune, but he then follows it up with a brilliant pallavi connector!

http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song...3368b14bdab6d4

Hi KV, cthis song was the first time Raaja used this rare scale - | S R2 G2 M2 P D3 N3 S | S N3 D3 P M2 G2 R2 S. As vinatha pointed out, the other two numbers following the same scale are En Kanavinai Kel Nanba from Dhesiya Geetham and Ulagame Nee Manidhanai from the film Ivan.


But i see that you have missed Rishabham in your mapping....please check on these songs again and come to a conclusion !


BTW, for the sake of easy reference, this scale is refered to as ''neethimathi'' in carnatic parlance. Dont know what would be the equivalents in thamizhisai or hindustani or even western scales.

[KV]

Thanks Baroque, vel. But I don't think Kanavinai and this are exactly the same scale.
Vel, I listened to the song a whole lotta times, but couldn't map R2 anywhere (like I said, G2 maybe taken as R3. I don't see any other Ri in the song).
Can you please tell me which phrase(s), in your calculation, maps to this swara?

[KV]

'alli sundaravalli' is a good song to show that raga name doesn't really matter for him. He can do the same, be it sahana or desh. However, in 'alli' case, I am unable to call it great even through there's catchy tune, good raga, orchestration. Something's lacking - sorry..

RR, have you listened to the Kannada version of this song by SPB (Halli laavaniyalli from Nammoora mandhaara hoove)? Needless to say that it sounds better than Arunmozhi's rendition.

[baroque]

Ravinat put out the same kannada song , RR must have followed that composition only. All 3 are talking the same composition.

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thanks Vel.

that's nice, there is another song from IVAN movie.
Yes, I checked out.

The humming/aalaap of the tunes, I can observe.

you think, it is neethimathi....mmmm.

I check out the raga's improvisation.

vinatha.

[vel]

you think, it is neethimathi....mmmm.
vinatha.

vinatha, i said "for the sake of easy reference, this scale is refered to as ''neethimathi'' in carnatic parlance. Dont know what would be the equivalents in thamizhisai or hindustani or even western scales."

so it is about how a set of scale is used differently -- it is just a different way in which a set of 7 notes, called as neethimathi in carnatic world, have been used for film music. More than serving the original grammar, it is more important to see how the scale (note i am not saying raga) is used in a versatile manner, suiting the film situation.....

[RR]

KV, I see what you mean. Yes it's a bit better just because of SPB.

vel: It's interesting that IR went for neethimathi for such two grand orchestral works.

[vel]

vinatha, i said "for the sake of easy reference, this scale is refered to as ''neethimathi'' in carnatic parlance. Dont know what would be the equivalents in thamizhisai or hindustani or even western scales."

so it is about how a set of scale is used differently -- it is just a different way in which a set of 7 notes, called as neethimathi in carnatic world, have been used for film music. More than serving the original grammar, it is more important to see how the scale (note i am not saying raga) is used in a versatile manner, suiting the film situation.....

vinatha -- see this video on how he wants to try new sangathis for a carnatic scale.....





a) varadha sangadhigal padunadhanal carnatic musicáanu....!
b) adhe sangadhigal bore adikkum !
c) kelvikekkaana aal venum (we need people who demand for new things....only that makes a composer get inspired)

[Sureshs65]

KV / Vel,

To me, 'O Prema Devathe' has the feel of SumanesaRanjani (aka Varunapriya). Similar to 'jal jal jal salangai', the Jeyachandran / Swarnalatha(?) song. Ofcourse I too see the deviations but the pallavi and especially towards the end of pallavi the Varunapriya feel is very strong.

As usual, with Raja you can never tell. As Vel says, he has probably used a scale in a way he wants and which is logically consistent. It is just that we are unable to comprehend the logic.