Film Stats & Assorted queries

[app_engine]

I d think composing tune to already written lyrics will be tougher than composing music on a white paper.

Actually, the mechanical process itself will be "easier" (than creating one from emptiness) but to make it "catchy" may be the tougher part

For e.g., give any Bharathiyar song or kuRAL or silambu to a capable composer, they will come up with 4/5 melodies for each verse in a matter of minutes. (On occasions, this was demonstrated by music directors like MSV / IR in public even). However, whether the outcome is as catchy as what they came up purely with musical notes (and no poem) is doubtful.

I've mentioned about this competition that used to run in our college Thamizh mag (interestingly, that too had the name 'thenRal', like the popular Thamizh mag in NA) where a poem will be published and students were asked to come up with melody for it. I had seen non-composers, engg students with absolutely no musical background, coming up with very interesting musical patterns at the hostel corridor. It should be a cake-walk for KVM-MSV-Raja-Rahman to put together a "tune" for any pre-written poem.

[app_engine]

What's more - nAnE "andheeee mazhai -huhhA -pozhikeeRadhu-huhhA- ovvoru- thuLiyeeelum -unmugam - therikeeeRadhu -aaAH-aaAH-aaAH-aaAh-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum" appadeennu oru tune pOttuppAdi irukkEn...and many seemed to like it at hostel

[SoftSword]

Actually, the mechanical process itself will be "easier" (than creating one from emptiness) but to make it "catchy" may be the tougher part

For e.g., give any Bharathiyar song or kuRAL or silambu to a capable composer, they will come up with 4/5 melodies for each verse in a matter of minutes. (On occasions, this was demonstrated by music directors like MSV / IR in public even). However, whether the outcome is as catchy as what they came up purely with musical notes (and no poem) is doubtful.

I've mentioned about this competition that used to run in our college Thamizh mag (interestingly, that too had the name 'thenRal', like the popular Thamizh mag in NA) where a poem will be published and students were asked to come up with melody for it. I had seen non-composers, engg students with absolutely no musical background, coming up with very interesting musical patterns at the hostel corridor. It should be a cake-walk for KVM-MSV-Raja-Rahman to put together a "tune" for any pre-written poem.

you caught exactly wat was in my mind when i asked that question...
thats why i stressed on the term easier... that even ppl who dont hav much of music knowledge could come up with a naive mettu....
to say exact, Rahmans tune for 'thottaal poo malarum' could hav been much painless than the original tune... (i am not comparing here, mind it)

[SoftSword]

But taking both in *absolute* terms, just given a situation
-A lyricist on white paper can imagine to use all the words that may fit. If he was given a tune - iLaiya nilaa pozhigiRadhE, for the first word he can only think of a 2-3 letter word which should also confine to the grammar of the tune with all that kuRil/nedil/thEmaa/puLimaa stuff.
-A musician given a white paper, like you said can come up with so many things. One advantage the musician has over the lyricst is a song is not just about the main melody. Backing instruments / ludes ellaam pugunthu viLaiyaadalaam.

And my vote is for music and then lyrics too simply because I am not a lyrical.

Softu, to answer your question, I d think composing tune to already written lyrics will be tougher than composing music on a white paper.

i understand... that musician has more scope for creativity... he can even collaborate with other musicians while bringing the music...
but while writing lyrics, most of the times it will be an individual process... ofcourse some director/md's suggestions would take place...
also, the lyricist will be restricted to not use some controversial words, topics in his music... and he need to write related to the situation(ideally) whereas the musician can experiment...

for ur last line, refer my opinion above...

[Nerd]

Andhi mazhaiyai vechikittE ivLavu easynaa, adhu kooda illainaa? thaana naana thaana naanaaa thana naanaa nu pOttalE pudhu mettu dhaanE

[app_engine]

Andhi mazhaiyai vechikittE ivLavu easynaa, adhu kooda illainaa? thaana naana thaana naanaaa thana naanaa nu pOttalE pudhu mettu dhaanE

adhu correct dhAn...because there are so many patterns possible, mettu can come just like that. The tricky part is 'catchiness' 'being likeable to many' etc. That way, having a pre-written lyric limits options to catchiness but free-form gives more freedom to get catchiness (including "senRiduveer ettuththikkum")

[NOV]

"matterukku meter & meterukku matter" (phrase used by MSV-Kavingar combo) both have brought great songs, when the lyricist & MD are capable. So, if you go by past history of TFM, one cannot prove either one is better..

It can ... becos less than 5% of songs were written with tune first.

Softu, to answer your question, I d think composing tune to already written lyrics will be tougher than composing music on a white paper.

agreed 100%
that is why you have boys in their late teens like anirudh and GSV starting to compose tunes.

Take ARR for instance. kannukku mai azhagu was pre-written... how beautiful the song is!

[app_engine]

It can ... becos less than 5% of songs were written with tune first.

Well, if you have such firm statistics, nothing to argue about

We're glad to have someone who was with every composer-lyricist duo of TFM - from 'mahAkavi kALidAs' to 'kAdhalil sodhappuvadhu eppadi' in the song making sessions

Let's accept the fact

[NOV]

ae, one doesnt have to be together to know things.
btw, even 5% is too much... do you know the evolution of TFM .... I mean since the very beginning. just a sincere question, not being sarcastic.

[app_engine]

do you know the evolution of TFM

illeenga

My theory and limited knowledge :

-initially, the existing 'keerthanai's and such classical stuff were widely used (could be either pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu, since all these were done by one individual who did both lines & mettu)
-lot of imports from stage plays, bhaktippAdalkal, folk songs etc whose origins have not been properly documented (could be either pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu, since origins unknown)
-film composers arranging mettu for existing literature (definite case of pAttukku mettu, no dispute here, but this % in the overall TFM cannot be very high, even if one limits to a last date of 1975 for great songs of TFM )
-every film song written by Bharathidasan was pAttukku mettu ( he was angry with MSV when he requested him to write a song for a great mettu, 'seruppukku nAn kAlai vetta mudiyAthu' and walked out)
-most songs composed by KVM were pAttukku mettu (per whatever I read here, this seemed to be his preferred method)
-most songs composed by copy cats, like Veda / Shankar-Ganesh, were mettukkuppAttu (source was indhi films, western music etc and not own compositions)

Other than the above, I fail to see how one can conclude for sure whether the song was pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu Especially those numbers that were built by the formidable kavingar - mellisai mannar combo?

Simply because MSV is a humble man and doesn't talk / write much does not automatically mean that he did servitude to kavingar most of the time. From whatever I read in the hub and elsewhere, they BOTH participated in many song making sessions and all three cases below are possible :
-pAttukku mettu
-mettukkuppAttu
-reNdum getting developed together, with changes / modifications / adjustments etc (I think this should be the max % for this combo)

So, even if we limit to the period upto 1975, we cannot be 100% sure about how many of those great songs were of each category. Even if we take on the face value the statements made by associates (director, producer etc), does anyone have a COMPLETE CATALOG today and has come to an arithematical conclusion / statistics of %?

I'll be glad to view such document and concede - that is for the pre-IR period, where I can be very objective