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Thread: The Golden Era of Dr.IR and Dr.SPB

  1. #3781
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber SoftSword's Avatar
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    V_S :no_words:
    vaartthailayae violin vaasikkireenga
    Sach is Life..

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  3. #3782
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber SoftSword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    One correction to my earlier post, Panakkaran was also released in 1990 (on Pongal day) and hence there were two releases for RK in 1990. Disappointment for his fans was no RK release for 1990 Deepavali (that had MMKR for KH) and hence 1991 Pongal was set as a hard deadline for the release of DD. In 1980s, both RK and KH had deepvali releases almost every year (except for 1988 when KH didn't have one). Looks like DD wasn't remade from any hindi movie based on Grouch's question.
    hi A_S,

    it would be great if u can throw information on the simultaneous releases of Rajini and Kamal during festival times...
    Sach is Life..

  4. #3783
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    V_Sji!

    Speechless!

    mikka nanRi!





    One of the best posts I've read in the hub, for a very worthy song!

    Instead of quenching our thirst & satisfying our appetite, your writing has only increased them

    That means this thread will have a lot more longevity - much beyond the 'avasarakkOlam-aLLiththeLikkal-one-a-day' compilation of mine

    While time availability is going to be an ongoing constraint for you, on the flip side, there's no "deadline / time limit"!

    You can pick songs at leisure and keep posting about them for a long time (most of the 300+ posted here deserve your detailed analysis while you wrote about only a select few based on requests)

  5. #3784
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    Quote Originally Posted by al_gates View Post
    App, can you confirm ejjatly when they started releasing the audios first?
    I don't know for sure - that probably predates my birth

    From the time I've started following IR's releases closely, they had mostly been prior to movie releases. No big "release functions" as V_S informed earlier, but the recording centers used to place the new release disks predominantly displayed - sometimes even with posters.

    Occasionally, there had been newspaper advertisements for "isaiththattu veLiyeedu" also. I clearly remember the 'alaigal Oyvathillai', 'ninaivellAm nithyA','kAdhal Oviyam' LP record release advertisements on paper. Those were done by the music companies, in association with the movie producers. Polydor released 'alaigal Oyvathillai' as their first Thamizh album (Thiyagarajan was a manager in that company who acted in that movie too - prior to that, I've seen only Hindi records by that company).

    Needless to say, the songs were playing in recording centers and tea-shops much before the film got released. In most cases, the audio companies also made sure they get copies available to IOKS that broadcasted the songs without bothering about whether the movie got released or not. (AIR had a policy not to broadcast songs from unreleased movies). Since a big area of TN was covered by IOKS broadcasts, the songs reached patti-thotti well ahead of the movie's release (IOKS is the reason how I even know 'sOlai pushpangaLE' was originally meant for the unreleased movie 'oomai veyyil' - even though it later became part of 'ingEyum oru gangai' as director Manivannan bought the rights)
    Last edited by app_engine; 13th April 2012 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #3785
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PARAMASHIVAN View Post
    Yes I have heard these two, "Nadapathu nadakattum" is quite an energetic song, IIRC SR sings this while drunk in the movie! Here you go
    More than just being energetic.. the song has a trippy rhythm structure and the way it has been structured is a goooogleee.
    I mean while the voice is on, there is one pattern and then in the interludes and intercharanam ludes, the rhythm skips and sputters - much like a drunkard's footsteps.. Sometimes I feel Raaja is keenly observing the goings on in the world and tries to recreate them in music - A true Brahma in those terms..
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  7. #3786
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V_S View Post
    Sundari KaNNaal oru SEidhi - Thalapathi

    Any film released on a Deepavali day is always special. Watching the film in the midst of all the fire-crackers around and also along with the noise of the crowd is something special. Most important thing, watching it first show. Nothing like that. The film too should also deserve to be celebrated on the Deepavali day. A dull film on a deepavali day is not a welcome. It should be a grand one. Whether it has substance or not does not matter as long as it entertains the crowd on that special day is what matters the most. We would hardly hear any dialogues on the first shows. Still that did not cause any displeasure. Moving with the crowd. Remember those days standing in the long queues hours together in that hot sun, a week or two before the release to grab the tickets. No online tickets those times. The satisfaction after we get the tickets is itself like watching the film. Remembering the Mannan scene how Rajini and Annan get the tickets. You can never match that experience. Big cut-outs, grand decorations, ferocious crowd, fire-crackers, lighting camphors, more than the Deepavali festival, the theaters wore a grand festive look. I don't remember if I had gone to temple on that auspicious day, but I do remember that I have watched many films the first show especially on a Deepavali day which also include Thalapathi. Sometimes they release a day before or on a Friday. Also apart from the movies, wearing new dresses with pride, enjoying lunch and sweets at every friends house is all a unique experience. Those days we never get full whatever we eat, so much appetite. To add more spice, good TV programs all day. Returning back to our homes only during the night. This trend in south is for just one day deepavali affair, but imagine a 5-day diwali (including Lakshmi Puja and Bhaubeej/Bhayya Duj) celebration in north and how would that be. This is the only indian festival which is celebrated across religions and across countries. A festival of lights which happen almost close to new moon day, which lit up the dark sky only to show that today, the heaven is on earth. That craze is surely gone now for me, staying away from home.

    The expectation from this film was already sky-high even before its release. Many magazines already posted about the brief story-line with Rajini and Mamooty's stills. Those days there were no audio releases like today, so we were guessing all the time how the songs would be and also excited to watch the film. With that excitement, we watched it on the first day. Definitely it was great film for the first time. As and when we got to see multiple times, the tiredness in the film surely woke us up except for some great acting performances. Starting from Agni Natchathiram, it was obvious to us that Mani has started giving more importance to style rather than substance. Dialogues became shorter and discontinuous, editing became more harsh/abrupt, cluttered/shallow story-telling/script without going deep into the subject, but somehow managed to create controversies in almost every film, which gained the publicity for the film. Most of all, he chose the best composer in his films which worked every time. Three Mani films I liked the most were Mouna Raagam, Nayagan and Alai Paayuthe, to some extent Kannathil Muthamittaal. He is very good in love subjects, but when he combines it with other social elements, that grip is not there, as surely there is a confusion which one to take and which one to leave. Without further delving, let us switch to one of the best song which mesmerized millions. A song which was a rage at that time. Every radio program was airing these songs. Doordharshan was playing these songs every week or so.

    She sees a violent event on road when she is traveling by bus. Her lover is cutting another man's hand. Stone-hearted. She is shocked. She is alone and waiting for him. He comes there and says he is like that and cannot change. He assumes that she will not like him because of her brought-up, yet she is madly in love with him. The stone-heart melts. The fear in her whether he will be with her always in her life. The fear in him whether she will marry him or get separated. Fear is the biggest cause of all problems. She dreams that sometimes he is with her, sometimes he is away from her. Which one is true?. Mani has handled the song cleverly except he forces some unwanted war scenes just to make it grand (another case of style vs substance). Maestro will never say No as he has enormous scope for this WCM orchestration skills. Mani leaves the audience to guess whether this is a dream song for Shobana, Rajini or both, as he cuts the scene just before, with Shobana lying in Rajini's lap. That's where the song starts. I am going to take a little different route this time.

    Mani decides to go to Italy using a space shuttle which switches him back to 17th century. That's the birth place of many legends and genius composer on the banks of venice, just like our divine kaveri river side. He believes he can get a good score only from Renaissance period composers like Claudio Monteverdi. He knocks the door of Monteverdi and introduces himself. Claudio welcomes him with a warm smile. Mani asks him if he can score a song for his latest film Thalapathi explaining the above situation which he obliges. Mani explains him the situation and also conveys that this is a dream song. She is constantly thinking of him and he is far away. She is fearful if he will marry her or she will be left alone. She is caught in a tension and confusion. She sends her love to him and he responds. Claudio stops him there. After carefully conceiving this situation he invents a new technique called Tremolo just for this situation. Claudio does not know at that time, the concept he invents will be the base for scientists like Marconi in 19th/20th century to invent another wonderful concept in transmitting voice and music signals over radio waves through amplitude modulation (AM). Claudio plays this portion with his orchestra.

    Tremolo technique is normally used with varying signal strength, that's why we hear that trembling effect, as the frequency is constant. She is constantly thinking of him (like frequency constant), but he is far away, so the signal strength (signal is constant, only its strength) varies. The information on that signal is vital. If you can hear that sober flute (implying her sober heart) on top of that tremolo, which is the information, she wants to send him through that tremolo. Once the signal reaches him on the same carrier (tremolo), he sends back another signal (I think some wind instrument, not sure, if that is a sax) on the same carrier which reaches her, before he reaches her. Once she sees him, the mood completely changes and both rushing towards each other. The sounds matches the galloping horse when he grabs and takes her into his horse. After this, we would assume the tremolo would end, as they both now united, still Maestro continues the tremolo but you can hear the tremolo in different ranges when the bell sounds come in. The bell sound is an indication of auspicious occasion, that is their marriage. So, when the bell rings they exchange the garlands. Even when they met and they know they are going to unite (again only in dreams), they are still nervous till they are married. So the tremolo sound continues, but taking different ranges, one for her and another for him. Once they exchange the garlands, the nervousness comes down, so tremolo stops there. When he plays with his orchestra, Mani was stunned by that sound. That clearly explained what he was thinking in his mind about the situation and he was surprised to hear that Claudio brought out exactly what he was thinking. That's the trembling effect the heroine experiences since his lover is far away.

    Meanwhile Claudio gets a call from church that he is already late and has to perform madrigals, so he feels sorry and leaves in a hurry. Mani now caught in dilemma, switches back his machine to 18th century to get a glimpse of this music scenario, but he somehow lands on the banks of river Kaveri, which he never expected. Saint Thyagaraja was singing

    'sundari nee divya roopamanu chooda thanakku dorikenamma,
    manda gamana neethu kadaksha balamo, mundhati poojaa balamo tripura'

    on the streets in the name of the Goddess Gowri describing her beauty in ever glorious Kalyani raagam. 'Oh Beauty of the three worlds. I am lucky to have seen your pretty form. Oh Goddess, with a pretty walk, this luck of mine is due to your side long glance, or it may be due to the worships I did earlier.' That struck our Mani sir like never before and he decides there that his song should be like this and in this raagam, totally forgetting about what Claudio offered earlier. He even got how the lyrics should sound. Sundari kanaal our sedhi (similar to 'this luck of mine is due to your side long glance' from Thyagaraja).

    He could not visualize further, but he could not wait either for that piece to be composed. He assumes that St. Thyagaraja is singing for his situation. With his blessings, he leaves from there. Suddenly remembers Claudio again to go back to Italy, but switches his machine to early 20th century to see how Western classical music has developed only to see the World is torn into pieces because of World wars. He sees the pain suffered back in the family when he fights for his country. This cue struck him and he directly reaches to Giacomo Puccini (a great successor to Verdi, who is known for his famous operas) to compose a opera/oratario piece for the interludes explaining the war situation and how it separates the family.

    Starting with the marching drums with high horns creates the tension in the war ground, while the choir which follows it, depicts the family behind, longing for his men. There is both male and female choir. For a split second it appears like a vocal counterpoint, but it is THE BEST and wonderful harmony, clearly showing the hearts of men (male choir) at war and the hearts of women (female choir) back at home, beating a similar pattern, even when they are performing their respective duties one at war and another back at home. After the war is over that day, the loneliness creeps in, when the dusk sets in. That's where the violin ensemble soothes both their hearts. Mani could not believe what he was hearing. Touched Puccini's feet. With that music ringing his ears and with heavy heart, he flies away seeing the atrocities during the World war, back to 14th century, to have solace and love, nothing else.

    Amir Khusrau a great poet and scholar of India during medieval times, welcomes him with this beautiful poem.

    Do not overlook my misery by blandishing your eyes, and weaving tales; My patience has over-brimmed,
    O sweetheart, why do you not take me to your bosom.
    Long like curls in the night of separation, short like life on the day of our union;
    My dear, how will I pass the dark dungeon night without your face before.

    After a good night sleep with these mind-soothing poems and also assuming composer Tansen (of 16th century) singing these songs, he gets up from the bed to see that he was in a big dream the whole night. Back to the future Part IV. He was shocked to see that he was still at his home and could not believe what he dreamt last night. After freshening up, he immediately rushed to Prasad studio to convey all that he dreamed last night, to Maestro before he forgets. Maestro, just seeing his face and impatience, he got all the telepathy and morse codes from all those above great men Mani met last night in his dream . He immediately called on Vaali sir, SPB sir, Janaki Amma and the whole orchestra. While Mani was impatiently waiting to tell the situation for that song and how he liked to see that song, Maestro started with the same Tremolo and flute which he heard in his dreams. He thought that was a coincidence, when Vaali sir started his song with 'Sundari' he got reminded of St. Thyagaraja's Sundari Nee kriti in Kalyani raagam. He was astonished to see Maestro coming with same raagam with similar lyrics glorying the lover, just like St. Thyagaraja was glorying Goddess Gowri. Still he was not convinced. That's when Maestro started his war theme in opera style, same what he heard from Puccini, he got stranded. But he was quite sure that Amir Khusrau poetry cannot be replaced here, when SPB was singing

    maadhangaLum vaaram aagum naanum neeyum kudinaal
    vaarangaLum maadham aagum paadhai maari oadinaal

    He immediately recalled 'Long like curis in the night of separation, short like life on the day of our union' from Amir Khusau's poem. He goes and hugs Vaali sir and SPB. Lyrics was again outstanding with both SPB and SJ's voice and singing brimming with soul.

    Maestro has still not finished his composition. He still has to do second interlude. While he starts on the same road as he did the first interlude, with the marching drums and trumpets, he takes a different turn when he starts the violin along with trumpet. As and when a head of a soldier is cut or as and when he is wounded, the violin cries which directly transmits that sad signal to their family. The culminating flute with underlying violin tells story of the bereaved family. Mani feels it was way better than what he heard from Puccini last night as this piece directly relates to pain, not just in lovers heart, but the pain for the love itself. He now feels that his dream has come true, rushed to Maestro, hugs and kisses him. Maestro gives him a gentle smile and leaves as if he did nothing.

    It is extra-ordinary to think this way as we can see the clouds of ambiguity clears out as we go from century to century when we hear diametrically opposite genres. Where is Renaissance, where is Kalyani, where is opera, and where is the poetry. Where is Monteverdi, where is St. Thyagaraja, where is Amir Khusrau and where is Puccini. If you hear the melody separately and interludes separately, you will never identify these pieces are for the same song. Int that way, it is a very rare composition; that it has no connection between pallavi/charanam and its interlude. Interlude is a separate western classical piece with no connection whatsoever to the melodic structure. Sameway, the melody has no connection to its interlude, yet with the last bar, how he connects both these diametrically opposite pieces seamlessly together is a testimony to this genius. The main highlight of the song is not these separate pieces, but how he brings all those legends of yesteryears in front of us together without we need to go back to their times. Maestro eases our job of listening and also eases the job of directors by bringing these hidden elements of treasure on his own, having studied and appreciated all forms of music thoroughly and seen all faces of music daily. A composition worth more than a billion, by one and only complete musician of our times. Do we deserve it?
    Agree word to word on this brilliant post except the bolded lines... It is purely mani's passion.. Many interviewers have asked him to define the most difficult step in Indian film making and Mani's constant refrain has been "picturising" and maintaining a narrative structure around music. So it is not a gimmick - but a conscious desire on the part of Mani to do this- and in Sundari - he does the BEST. nicely weaves a narrative context around the song and then complements it with gorgeous picturisation that reflects the totally different worlds the hero and heroine inhabit.. One coy and pleasant pastoral, the other one harsh, gloomy and bloody battlefield.. This aesthetic and poetic visualisation speaks a thousand scenes written to reinforce the contrast.. Awesome at all levels. Hats off to Mani Ratnam the genius..
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  8. #3787
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes View Post
    More than just being energetic.. the song has a trippy rhythm structure and the way it has been structured is a goooogleee.
    I mean while the voice is on, there is one pattern and then in the interludes and intercharanam ludes, the rhythm skips and sputters - much like a drunkard's footsteps.. Sometimes I feel Raaja is keenly observing the goings on in the world and tries to recreate them in music - A true Brahma in those terms..
    Yes very true!
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

  9. #3788
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Wasn't Kamal's Kalaignan and Orabhu;'s Rajakumaran release on 92 ?
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

  10. #3789
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    Thank you very much Bala, SS, App, Jai, Param, A_S for all your elevating comments and kind words. I am really moved. All credit to Maestro and big thanks to App for asking me to write.

    As Jai mentioned, everything is perfect in this song, even the kitchen sink. Mani is always lucky when it comes to songs.

    Yes, I agree. As Bala/grouch/App mentioned, we should not stop this thread, we should be moving, as there are lot of treasures like this we need to savor. Whatever little contribution, we can make, we should make it. Yes the frequency of the posts might be an issue, but definitely I will make sure, to post whenever and whatever I little can.

    Thanks again for all your support!

  11. #3790
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    Jai,
    Wonderful points and nicely put. I agree. The reason why I wrote that is, as a song narration and as a stand-alone piece yes it is awesome and Mani has done it superbly. But I was thinking more from the overall script perspective, how it fits into the story, and whether can it be done a little bit differently. Since this is a dream sequence and anything we can dream, yes then you are right in that perspective.

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