World Cricket II

[P_R]

Rao bahadur, Rai bAhadur (depending on whetehr you were born in South or North) vAngi iruppinga. Ofcourse, you'll take that as a compliment.

I am going to call you Rao Bahadur Prabhu Ramar henceforth. Her Majesty, the queenOda Indian representative adhigAri illaiyA?

yOv, adhu oNNu dhaan illaingaREn...maRupadiyin adhaiyE solReerE.


wizzy, the analogy holds.I don't see how you have rebutted it. Homegrow your performers can be said to any developed nation now, no?

[wizzy]

you can't equate US with Eng w.r.t braindrain...correct analogy would have been a socialist India/students spending peanuts for their undergrads at IITs/AIIMs and then looked for greener pastures in US with virtually no funding for higher studies to pre 90s apartheid SA whose players had no means to redeem their cricketing skills hence consented to play/represent Eng/Oz/NZ in tests/odis...it is blasphemous to equate US with English cricket because US was a success story before our peeps landed on their shores and now English cricket is seen as a success story courtesy these very mercenaries and also US can survive with just their homegrown talents/system and we can't say the same about English cricket either..Eng/county cricket will be brought to its knees if all the mercenary/kolpak players turned their backs on them.

[P_R]

correct analogy would have been a socialist India/students spending peanuts for their undergrads at IITs/AIIMs and then looked for greener pastures in US with virtually no funding for higher studies

is what I meant. The former brain-drain argument.

to pre 90s apartheid SA whose players had no means to redeem their cricketing skills hence consented to play/represent Eng/Oz/NZ in tests/odis...

There are only so many spots. People who want to try out elsewhere, as they always have can. And mind you they are not hedging. They have to be in England 4 years. So they are forsaking their local opportunities when they do so.

it is blasphemous to equate US with English cricket because US was a success story before our peeps landed on their shores and now English cricket is seen as a success story courtesy these very mercenaries and also US can survive with just their homegrown talents/system and we can't say the same about English cricket either..Eng/county cricket will be brought to its knees if all the mercenary/kolpak players turned their backs on them.

I think these are exaggerations.
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.

Again, this is not to discount how valuable they are.I think you are discounting the others far too much.

[wizzy]

apartheid SA players looking for opportunities elsewhere is natural brain-drain.

Trott who played under 15/19 for SA and now playing tests for Eng is unnatural brain-drain with SA fielding a competent test side

I think these are exaggerations.
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.

I meant the entire kolpak players who make up the county cricket for what it is today...If only Ecb rests Trott/KP for a test series and play their homegrown Owais/Ravi then we could arrive at a conclusion

P_R to put it succinctly..getting a competent test batsman is a long/tedious process which also involves fair amount of luck w.r.t identifying/grooming the right talent ..OZ with their famed domestic system couldn't muster a prospective test bat to fill the void and are still holding on to Punter/Huss for whatever their worth and same was the case with India holding onto trinity bats..now imagine ECB snapping up 2 quality test bats out of thin air without spending a penny/time.

[P_R]

Trott who played under 15/19 for SA and now playing tests for Eng is unnatural brain-drain with SA fielding a competent test side

What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)

If only Ecb rests Trott/KP for a test series and play their homegrown Owais/Ravi then we could arrive at a conclusion

avaingaLai nambi ellAm naanE ticket edukka mAttEn What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.

P_R to put it succinctly..getting a competent test batsman is a long/tedious process which also involves fair amount of luck w.r.t identifying/grooming the right talent ..OZ with their famed domestic system couldn't muster a prospective test bat to fill the void and are still holding on to Punter/Huss for whatever their worth and same was the case with India holding onto trinity bats..now imagine ECB snapping up 2 quality test bats out of thin air without spending a penny/time.

Of course. This is true of a public school trained doctor in SA.

Why did KP move? He hates the quota system and thought he won't get his due and went to England.
It is there for a good reason. If people don't like it, then they take the highway. As simple as that. No?

It is quite possible that ECB engineered to have him dropped from the Natal team, and stoked the disfavour he had against the quota system and thereby had him quit and procured him. ippadi yEdhAvadhu irundhA vanmaiyA kaNdikkalaam.

maththapadi, thappillai.

Trott Britis passport. avingallAm appadi dhaan 'nga. angittum ingittum pOyittu dhaan iruppAinga.
Trott's brother plays for some South African county and also for Netherlands

Mugabe's kaduppu with many of the whites is they don't identify with Zimbabwe. They maintain dual citizenships, they repatriate the earnings to England etc.
idhu oru broader social issue 'ngREn.
Cricket will be in pattern with rest of society.

[wizzy]

What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)

P_R enna kelvi edhu? Trott made it to under 15/19 and I have every reason to believe he would have made it to SA senior side if it wasn't Eng/County dangling the carrot...the chances of him getting a place in Saffer side is as good as Jac Rudolph

What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.

Eng lost 8 tests in the last 3 years..other than the Galle test in which Trott scored a 100 still Eng managed to lose it..even then KP didn't fire in that test ..in all other matches Eng have lost over the last 3 years KP/Trott haven't made any significant contribution.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...m;view=results

so there is some correlation between KP/Trott scoring and Eng winning..suffice to say if it wasn't for these two mercenaries Eng test side would be brought it to its knees the first scorecard in the query should serve as a sneak peek into a Eng side with only home grown talents on the batting front.

[Plum]

If Aussie Cricketrs start playing for India, eventually that'll lead to more Aussies in other fields in India. We have to start somewhere, don't we? Why do people go to Eng/Aus/western countries? Better opps - it has been happening for decades. It all started with that single plumber, no? Let it start with Cricket in India. What's your problem? How is this not the same as England getting Cricketers from other countries seeking better money in England. Where there is money, man goes. There is nothing more natural than this. You are just inventing a reason to justify England's mollamaarithanam(natural immigration, unnral immigration etc). Which is exactly how Englishmen deal with such issues. Raise some non-issues to distract the main issue. Which is why you can be considered a quasi-Englishman. Your concept of natural and unnatural is simply not enough justification to claim that England using Trott is different from India using Aussie bowlers. And it is this aspect - and your refusal to see reason in this aspect - that annoys me and makes me believe you are vidhandaavadhing

[Plum]

Trott would have easily made it to Saffers team. He went to England for better financial opps. Just as a second grade Aussie cricketer could come to India for better financial opps. We are a cricketing super+power baby - you want dough? Come here and l**k our a**e. Not that I'd be happy supporting an indian team with an Aussie make+up. I have enough trouble identifying with a pre-dominantly north indian team. But sauce for goose, sauce for gander etc. Do not obfuscate the issue by taling about natural, unnatural etc. What's more natural than man travelling to wherever'll get respect and money?

[ajithfederer]

Persistence thy name is Plum, Prabhu ram nu kooda sollalam but plum covers a wider spectrum.

[P_R]

Eng lost 8 tests in the last 3 years..other than the Galle test in which Trott scored a 100 still Eng managed to lose it..even then KP didn't fire in that test ..in all other matches Eng have lost over the last 3 years KP/Trott haven't made any significant contribution.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...m;view=results

so there is some correlation between KP/Trott scoring and Eng winning..suffice to say if it wasn't for these two mercenaries Eng test side would be brought it to its knees the first scorecard in the query should serve as a sneak peek into a Eng side with only home grown talents on the batting front.

Point taken. Their contribution/influence is indeed as crucial as you claim.

btw Trott double passport.

Let it start with Cricket in India.

Even you don't believe this Plum. You think this is a start or an anomaly. Your take is, 'even if it is an anomaly, let it be'

What's more natural than man travelling to wherever'll get respect and money?

If that is ALL you are willing to feel about the whole thing, that is the only plane in which you are going to consider it, if an urge to consider the long-tradition is malicious obfuscation, then I will concede it is the most logical thing in the world.


btw England now wants an IPL style T20 Interesting times ahead in these pages.