Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

[senthilv.com]

kiru,

I understand what you say but to be honest, having followed the careers of many music directors across languages I can surely say that many slowly lose their musical prowess. Now this in nothing wrong. Whether it be some of the great Hindi directors or Telugu music directors, either their tune making ability comes down or they are no longer relevant. And that happened to not only MSV and KVM but also to the likes of Rajeshwar Rao and Pendyala in Telugu, to people like O P Nayyar in Hindi. Someone like Kamal Aakarsh will back me up on this as he has also followed the careers of Rajeshwar Rao, Pendyala, O P Nayyar etc. So I don't think we are disrespecting MSV when we say his music making capability and his relevance (musically) went down by mid 80s. We don't assess a music director by his bad period but rather by the good period.

Raja, on the other hand, is still relevant, musically to many and in some places commercially. I am sure Myshkin came to Raja for the music. He knew that Raja's commercial impact would be negligible. Same with Suseendran. For movies like 'SreeRamaRajyam' Bapu would not be able to think of anyone else other than Raja. And Raja survives because even today he makes better music than anyone else. That is the simple fact.

Suresh, I'm a HCIRF but your statements are actually unfair to MSV in so many ways and it is so wrong. MSV can make great music even now, the reason for him not making music after 80's seriously has nothing to do with his capability, musical acumen and relevance. The film industry just didn't know how to use MSV's music. Just like industry now doesn't know how to use IR music as effectively as they could. Sivaji sir didn't lose his acting prowess late in his career, just the industry lost it's ability to use him as much as he was used earlier. If all producers and directors run after Kamal, it doesn't him make better actor than Sivaji. It is TFM's loss that MSV was not utilized.

Tomorrow, someone figures out a way to give great hit with MSV, there will be line-up at his door. This industry is a slave to none but trend and is hell scared to go against the trend. There was a time in 80's when every Raja film had him sing the title song and this was supposedly a sure way to make the film a hit. This is how silly the industry gets.

Anyway, just top directors going to Raja or MSV means nothing. Really. It doesn't add a thing to what they have already achieved. Being a HCIRF, I'll follow raja's path and boldly argue, most of MSV and Raja's work can stand up to world music and can undergo any level of musical scrutiny but only few films in the entire history of TFM can boast that level artistry and craftsmanship.

Let's make one thing clear, good music is not equal to hit song or a song that many ppl like it. Which is usually the yardstick used by audience and most ppl in the industry, which is fair considering it is a business. But to objectively claim Raja makes better music than MSV? Come on, it is not a fact. It's ur opinion and nothing wrong with that but it's not a fact.

Senthil

[app_engine]

Yesterday, I watched Paa on Netflix for a while..

The only "IR-MD-ed movie" DVD I see in the Dearborn public library

BTW, I had to use the minivan to commute yesterday and it had the cheeni kum music. Those two instrumental tracks were so soothing during the "back-from-long-work-day" ride

Excellent to hear and betters most "smooth-jazz" music I've heard over the years.

If this is not modern / contemporary / youthful etc, the listener definitely has heavy anti-IR bias. A simple test will be to play that to some modern youth who doesn't know IR (or any TFM) and ask to comment.

Gautam onnum avvaLavu vivaram illAma rAsA kitta varalai

sarakku innum niRaiya irukku!

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

Sorry. I don't buy the 'industry did not know how to use him' angle. I stand by what I said.

[Sureshs65]

And senthil, when did I say 'Raja makes better music than MSV'. Sometimes it is good if you read what is written carefully and not read what you want. What I said was that MSV by 1986 had lost both commercial and musical relevance whereas Raja in 2012 has not lost his musical relevance though he is commercially not a 'hit' music director any more. Why is so hard to understand this statement? I was not making a career wise comparison of MSV and Raja and passing some judgement.

So if you want to argue against my stand, please show me how MSV was relevant in 1986? That is all I ask. Not for your pontification.

[irir123]

MSV gave an astounding 'ninaithale inikkum' when IR gave a 'priya' - NI on anyday trounces Priya in terms of creativity, energy etc etc !

and MSV did give great / outstanding tracks like 'man kanda sorgangal', 'kana kaanum kangal mella', 'ragangal padhinaaru' etc when IR was at his peak (a peak that continued on and on!).

however the Agni Natchatiram example is rather dumb/silly !

then there is the issue of the composing style - my little understanding says that though MSV and IR belong to the old school, IR's composing style was/is marked by prolificity and unmatched speed combined with the kind of quality we have often associated with his output! these traits are very much IR's!

having said that, i have heard rumors that K Bhagyaraj took MSV's help for his 'music composing' for idhu namma aalu! MSV music poda, ivaru than pera vechhukittadhaa oru rumor - dont know how far it is true!

am sure that MSV's basic melody making abilities will still be the same - but, with due respect to MSV's genius, adaptability to a given context such as how IR does for a malayalam film backdrop, or a kannada film backdrop is something only IR is capable of ! thats why mallu directors still seek IR !

[app_engine]

MSV always had severe limitations with orchestration -i.e. even during his prime, IMO, he needed assistants to help him on that.
(Marked difference in orch quality can be seen between MSV-TKR songs plus when Henry Daniel was around v/s later ones with Joseph Krishna as asst.)

That was the reason for Hindi songs to capture the elite-TN during 70's.
Also, one main reason for early success of IR.

No question about MSV's "melody making" capabilities - that were perhaps still intact during late 80's The MSV-IR combo movie senthamizhppAttu got released in 1992 with a couple of decent melodies.

That way, there had been never any comparison possible between MSV & IR as a composer in total.

IR was / is a class apart.

[senthilv.com]

And senthil, when did I say 'Raja makes better music than MSV'. Sometimes it is good if you read what is written carefully and not read what you want. What I said was that MSV by 1986 had lost both commercial and musical relevance whereas Raja in 2012 has not lost his musical relevance though he is commercially not a 'hit' music director any more. Why is so hard to understand this statement? I was not making a career wise comparison of MSV and Raja and passing some judgement.

So if you want to argue against my stand, please show me how MSV was relevant in 1986? That is all I ask. Not for your pontification.

------

Chill. Don't take it personally. I have nothing against you. Just scrutinizing ur points.

You had this to say... "And Raja survives because even today he makes better music than anyone else. That is the simple fact" I interpreted this as "Raja makes better music than anyone else (including MSV)" Was my interpretation wrong? If you believe MSV could also make great music than clarify it, I will take back my word.

"I don't think we are disrespecting MSV when we say his music making capability and his relevance (musically) went down by mid 80s. We don't assess a music director by his bad period but rather by the good period"

First, what do you mean by "musical relevance". Relevance to what? I don't understand it. Second MSV's music making capability went down? One could say demand for his type of music with producers went down. But how do you know his music making capability went down?

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

I was talking about the present. When you read the full sentence, including "Raja survives today', the operative word being today, I meant that Raja makes better music than anyone else who is making music today.

And ofcourse I believe MSV can make great music. Kindly check my blog. You will find that I have listed songs of MSV and more will come in future.

Again, I don't buy the 'demand for his type of music with producers went down' argument. As a great fan of MSV, who had defended him against Raja once upon a time, I did follow his music very carefully during that period. And I personally say that what he produced during that period was no patch to what he had produced earlier. I tell this as a serious listener. Yes, there are some nice songs that irir123 pointed out but they few and far between in the mid 80s. And many of the tunes had the 'heard before feel'. We can do a thorough analysis and I seriously believe that anyone objective enough, when analyzing MSV's output will clearly see a tapering of musicality towards the end of his career.

I am ofcourse ready to accept proof which proves me wrong. And as usual, you have not replied to the last line in my post.

[genesis]

MSV always had severe limitations with orchestration -i.e. even during his prime, IMO, he needed assistants to help him on that.
(Marked difference in orch quality can be seen between MSV-TKR songs plus when Henry Daniel was around v/s later ones with Joseph Krishna as asst.)

That was the reason for Hindi songs to capture the elite-TN during 70's.
Also, one main reason for early success of IR.

No question about MSV's "melody making" capabilities - that were perhaps still intact during late 80's The MSV-IR combo movie senthamizhppAttu got released in 1992 with a couple of decent melodies.

That way, there had been never any comparison possible between MSV & IR as a composer in total.

IR was / is a class apart.

app,

While I agree that IR is the king of orchestration (meaning MSV can not be compared to him in that dept), I do not agree 70s Hindi song orchestration was far superior than MSV's - I think Hindi offered more variety to TN people. The decline of Hindi popularity in TN is more to do with Hindi song quality in the 80s than IR effect (ah ah, there is one more blasphemy!!).

Even today I am able to enjoy 60s and 70s Hindi music, but not the 80s. (I started listening Hindi songs only from late 80s, only after DD Hindi thinippu)

[jaiganes]

Just a small segway/WCM question - Some guy had posted earlier in his/her pasebuk or tuitter that the NEPV scores are good - but very less notes..
What is that implying - notes lesser or more - does it hint at anything?