Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

[senthilv.com]

senthil,

I was talking about the present. When you read the full sentence, including "Raja survives today', the operative word being today, I meant that Raja makes better music than anyone else who is making music today.

And ofcourse I believe MSV can make great music. Kindly check my blog. You will find that I have listed songs of MSV and more will come in future.

Again, I don't buy the 'demand for his type of music with producers went down' argument. As a great fan of MSV, who had defended him against Raja once upon a time, I did follow his music very carefully during that period. And I personally say that what he produced during that period was no patch to what he had produced earlier. I tell this as a serious listener. Yes, there are some nice songs that irir123 pointed out but they few and far between in the mid 80s. And many of the tunes had the 'heard before feel'. We can do a thorough analysis and I seriously believe that anyone objective enough, when analyzing MSV's output will clearly see a tapering of musicality towards the end of his career.

I am ofcourse ready to accept proof which proves me wrong. And as usual, you have not replied to the last line in my post.

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I didn't ignore your operative word. I still believe MSV can make great music, even today. You believe he can't and/or he didn't create good music since 1986. Cool and I respect it. But that's two opinion-- yours and mine. Not a fact.

I was not interested in tackling your last point because i felt it is irrelevant. Since you ask, here's my take.....Sivakumar (actor) has not acted in films since late 1990's. So can we assume his acting capability went down? Replace Sivakumar with any other older actor, won't it sound weird? They are not in the industry, not because their acting are irrelevant but because the roles relevant to them are not written anymore. Roles are written geared towards Suriya & co because of chances/probability to make money is more. But it is not indication of acting talent of Sivakumar or others.

Music Directors are not that different from actors. Especially the likes of MSV and Raja as they are more like musical actors and not produce something on their own. if you give them good situation, narration, story. They musically "act out" and produce great song. Every one of their song is tailored to the T to the situation. if you give them a totally cliched situation, they still give you okay songs. It is against their integrity to "over act" through music to get noticed or stand out.

They are almost like instruments in hands of producers, writers, directors. Can't blame the instrument for bad playing. Every music director has strength and weakness. One has to understand the strength and weakness of music directors to bring out the best in them. MSV was served bad stories/movies in 80's he still did okay. If we tried to figure an instance were MSV botched a good situation with an "okay" song, we have a relevant discussion. But it doesn't seem right to pin down lack of good music from him entirely down to his musical capability.

If you listen to MSV's interview, he attributes success of a song to the team of writer/lyrcist, producer, actor, camerman. Never tries to take individual credit, because it is unfair to the team. So how could we conveniently blame just him for his "failures" in 80's?

[baroque]

Just a small segway/WCM question - Some guy had posted earlier in his/her pasebuk or tuitter that the NEPV scores are good - but very less notes..
What is that implying - notes lesser or more - does it hint at anything?

Does it mean, Raja has created some music themes using less notes - 3 or 4 notes etc..?
Let the album come!
with live orchestra of 100+ pieces, singer like Karthik's vocal, rendu moonu pattaavadhu therum.
adhai thavira instrumental bgms erukkum.
enough of speculations...
varatum modhalla....

[senthilv.com]

Does it mean, Raja has created some music themes using less notes - 3 or 4 notes etc..?

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It could mean "minimalistic". Using less notes to convey the same point/emotion. Which Raja has been doing since late 1980's. Might be new for them.

[baroque]

minimalistic music means less orchestral work or using less number of instruments.

Here they have speculated 'less notes'
that's why I thought that the music themes created with less number of notes.


see...
EARLY ILAYARAJA'S KHAMAJ MASTER PIECE NAAN PESA VANDHEN....
is MINIMALISTIC ILAYARAJA!




kavikkuyil's yearning janu's chinna kannan azhaikkiraan...



Raja blasts with bgm!


BOTH THE TYPES WE ADORE!

[V_S]

senthilv,
You are not answering Suresh ji questions, but rather defending only by blaming music scenario, producers that time does not sound good. Can I blame the music scenario of 90s for IR's so-called failures? Absolutely not! Actor vs music director comparison is lame. Same way can I ask why Prabhu, Delhi Ganesh et all are even sought now. Even Manorama, Nagesh were acting recently. Why are they writing roles for them and not for Sivakumar?. We also have to think the reason. (let's leave it aside, as this is another bigger subject).

As per the tastes of people, films, music everything changes. We have to accept that and change/adapt ourselves to support it, rather than blame the audience or producers. Even IR had a lean patch in late 90s (where he gave biggest hits like Guru, Kalapani, Kathalukku mariyaathai), but what do you think the reason he is still sought out composer? Same way, why after 86 or so no producers were coming MSV sir way? It was only after 4 years since he gave biggest hits like Thillu mullu (raagangaL pathinaaru), Shankarlal (unakkenna mElE, what a beauty!), Pollathavan (athO vaaraandi, naane endrum raja), Agni Satchi (KanA Kaanum KaNgaL mella), 47 NaatkaL (maan kanda sorgangaL), Manal Kayiru (Mandhira Punnagai), Andha 7 Naatkal (Kavithai arangErum, ENNi irundhadhu).

Same thing happened to IR during 92-95. After 95 suddenly the number of movies went down drastically. Where is 95 and where is 2012. Why are we still hearing about IR?

Suresh ji, See where a casual comparison has got us into? The one who wrote escaped from the scene, but we have to put our effort to explain things. That's why in first place I hate these comparisons.

Please don't blame me. This is how I see it. I don't have any doubt about his music ability, but MSV sir was not much interested in making music after mid-80s and also did not update himself and didn't make effort to understand peoples taste. This clearly showed up that he needed Maestro for Mella thirandhathu Kadhavu, Senthamizh Paattu and Viswa Thulasi. By 1986 when he made MTK, he should have understood what people are interested in having worked with Maestro closely, still for some reason, he did not bend himself. By this time, people have already changed their taste to appreciating the orchestration, WCM skills, BGMs, folk, guitar centric songs. Even the films were mostly out of the studio and into the villages which gave IR a big step ahead. He simultaneously updated himself in guitar, piano, WCM and also tried to bring more synthesizers into his composition (that was right from early 80s). While MSV sir mainly concentrated on melodies which was also important, but people expected more. More than his music capability, I tend to think, he lost interest.

Sameway in 90s, when ARR stormed into the scene, people's expectation changed drastically. Even though IR was stubborn in his style/trademark, the main difference lies in the fact that IR closely followed his works and made every attempt (even though he may not have liked it) to satisfy audience by learning new synthesizers, brought in new singers (just like ARR did), learned more contemporary stuff, pro-actively scored music for young and new generations directors to keep his music live. He certainly knew one day everything will be rewarded. I would say that's the fire he always keeps live, mainly for us, we music lovers. See the enthusiasm he has even now. He goes to London and still has a big group of musicians around him. He has that apetite and wil always have, because he knows nothing but music. Simply put, keep it going buddy.

My last question, if music is your breath and life, how can you quit? I hope you understood my point.

Suresh ji and App, Excellent post. As always you read my mind. I owe you a lot.

[genesis]

-Deleted-

Mumbai Ramki - No entertainment for you!!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

V_S, I will frame your last post! Really! Already took screenshot!

[V_S]

Thanks skv.

[app_engine]

sumAl nitpick V_Sji...'unakkenna mElE ninRAi' was from simlA special.
(Shankarlal music by IR-GA, the only movie to credit both...)

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

You say, "I was not interested in tackling your last point". That about seals the debate. As I said, I will be more than happy to be proved wrong but if no one comes forward to give exact examples there is no sense in continuing the debate.

V_S,

Nice post. I agree with most of what you said. As a critic, I have a slightly different take but I will leave it here for now.