Khan Saheb Kamal Haasan's Jamaat/Jeba Koottam/Devasthaanam - Part 8

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Can we start listing Hamal's hindu bashing from so far movies? Not to prove anything. Just for record. Let us see how each one of us view those dialogues. In kamal's own words "thedith theerpom vaa! "

Sure, But also list the favourable things too he has done towards Hindu Religion. As equa said, titling his film with "Anbe Sivam" from Thirumoolar's Thirumanthiram itself is an indirect praise on that religion.

So many good songs, Spiritual kind. Maasaru ponne varuga, Abiraami anthaathi in Guna, 2 songs in Dasavatharam, Sriranga song from Mahanathi... Has any film shown the aesthetic beauty like those?

And what about those do-good & say-good hindu characters in his films, which are around him. like the Maamiyaar in Mahaanathi etc. Even Poornam, to some extent. You can see these kind of characters filled and ppl only take up the bad hindu characters in his films.

I don't know how this opinion will be received -> All the Bakthi padams show atheist characters as bad/villain or atleast non believers and finally something "happens" and they are Transformed as Bakthi Maans! Not even one character where Kamal changes them into, or totally converts his ideologies. Everybody, from Poornam viswanathan to Maddy of Anbe Sivam, are just let off as it is. Even the dialog goes like this in Anbe Sivam

Maddy: Enna maathiriyaana design ithu, enna kadavuL ithu, intha maathiriyaana samayathula thaan kadavul irukkaaraangura santhetame varuthu
(and looks at kamal, his mischievous mild laugh!)
Suddenly maddy changes tone Illa, KadavuL irukkaaru! (does something like, kannathula pottukkurathu :lol : )

He is just he and doesn't "convert" anyone! and all he does is asks some strong kostin which still lies unanswerable by believers.

So, the bottomline is, if you make a list of the things, he, according to you, takes a hit on Hindu, also in parallel run a list of merit things he had / done said about Hindu, either directly or Indirectly. So there he does some sort of Balance!

[SoftSword]

his title names itself speaks something very deep... edhukku kurippa andha pera choose pannanum..
dhasaavadhaaram... viswaroopam...
ulagatthukku edho solla varraar... is a lumpsome topic to discuss... periyavanga pesinaa nallaarukkum..

[aceqoxim]

So many good songs, Spiritual kind. Maasaru ponne varuga, Abiraami anthaathi in Guna, 2 songs in Dasavatharam, Sriranga song from Mahanathi... Has any film shown the aesthetic beauty like those?

+1. Especially paartha vizhi and sriranga songs. Enakku remba naala oru niggling doubt. To what extent is KH's influence on the lyrics? Kallai mattum kandal lines ellam , as an agnostic I can relate to it very well. Athuthaan ketkuren.

[sathya_1979]

@ 861 - The discussion started with balance about criticisms and not about balance WRT portraying + and - , which I always felt is skewed towards - without balance.
All onger posts - Will come back tonight.

[SoftSword]

stardust,
to the extent that the lyrcis writers think with kh's brain, and kh speaks with the writer's mouth..

[P_R]

What does caste mean *now*, having the baggage it has and causing the effects it has caused?

Now it has much reduced social relevance. X 'lives' the same way as Y. The differentiators are vastly reduced (again for only a smaller section of the population than we are willing to acknowledge). It has little meaning beyond that.

Where the differentiators seem exclusively alive is in the domestic sphere - the language registers, the rituals, modes of worship, cuisine and so on. These do not rankle me. In fact there is - probably irresponsible - kururuppu in trying to keeping alive these. Particularly because they seem fairly innoccuous, there is no ill-treatment of fellow humans etc.

indha sadangu seyyuradhai nippAttaNum- 'nRa mAdhiri ellAm sollavE mAttEn.
I am becoming more and more of a sucker for rituals, surprising what's left of my former teenage self. That is for another day.
I am also vehemently opposed to the argument that 'religion ellAm veettula vachchukkunga' (Kamal's stand is kinda on these lines). Religious experience is very much social and out in the open.

thiruvizhA, kumbAbishEgam, oorvalam (of course, one has to be aware of the newfounded vinayagar oorvalam - which is intentionally political in nature), thEr - all of this I would certainly like to continue.

In Kandadevi, thEvars take exception to Dalits participating in the thEr izhuththal. Periodic vettukuththu, police protection etc. In such circumstances, people tend to say: "ippadi oru thEr thEvaiyA...*#%# religionum vENdAm oNNum vENdAm...veetula saami kumbittukkunga".

I couldn't disagree more with that approach. This is what life is. These moments of joy, the moments when one can try and momentarily aspire for something larger. And if we are not civilized enough and need police protection to conduct ourselves here, I don't think that is a waste at all.

By clinging on to that identity, what are we saying overtly/implicitly?

One thing for sure that is not being implied (but is always alleged that this is implied) that one is trying to attest the hierarchy.
Do you think so?

S.Anand ellAm super comedy. idhu engappan moonji, en moonji mEla ottai vachuttu pOyittAn..asingam asingam range-ku guilt.
To the extent that he will feel at ease only if he decimates every bit of his identity. oru mAdhiri vambadiyA senjA mAdhiri irukkum.
Not even judging him for that - actually I am, just that I find his 'ippadi ellAm senjA dhaan enakku nimmadhi' kinda funny.

Get your point but i don't think it's a fair comparison at all (judging on education/exposure/employment being a replacement of juding by caste). It is a lesser evil way to judge. Class discrimination ellaam prachanai dhaan but adhukku apparam varuvom.

I said that to show the decoupling over time. I wanted to point out the class-caste overlap.

I do think people feel an affinity even now. This generation. Which is why the identity itself must go, discrimination laam eppadiyo ooduruvidum nu thonudhu. I don't share your optimism when you say we have seen a great deal of decoupling. I get how different things are from the past but it is not good enough.

Affinity-nA...eppadiyA irundhaalum ivan namma paya - ivanai podhuvula vittu kudukka koodaadhu..appadi ellAmA? Quite rare I say. Nearly noone would think like that.

Of course the infamous FB comments after Paramakudi shootout, the Law College padichcha pasanga mOdhal etc. exceptions are there. But that is hardly typical, is it?

OTOH I should acknowledge a sense of, what do I say...enga veetulayum ippadi seyvAnga, same-pinch range-ku sillythanamAna bonding. But I consider that fairly innocuous.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

//Digg

This post doing rounds in FB, twitter. Great one to read!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/stali...63949656948690

The crux of the article -> Inside TN, Media and Social Networking mostly discuss caste issues in the plane Brahmin vs non Brahmin. But the atrocities of the other (dominating)castes inside Rural TN is not widely discussed

End Digg//

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Devar vs Dalit, indirectly hidden under General rural violence
Brahmin mis beliefs
General Hindu mis-beliefs, vagueness in hindu beliefs
Anti-Muslim acts,
Hindu vs Muslim
International Islam (VR, notreleased though)

Wow, Though Haaser has covered only minor number of issues and there are much more left, but still the impact

[irir123]

'International Islam' patthi sonnaa, koodave 'Internationally irrational Islam' patthiyum vivadham seivvaar endru nambuvom!

[Sunil_M88]

Satyamev Jayate : Untouchability - Dignity for All with subtitles

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7OUoXsryE3c