The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

**viggop** · 18th October 2005, 10:48 AM

HariKirshnan Sir
I'm awaiting your post on Duryodhana's ascent to heaven.

**Google Adsense** · 18th October 2005 10:48 AM

**Badri** · 18th October 2005, 11:22 AM

Raghavan's little story on the above is really worthy reading. Please do go through Yudhistra's journey in heaven...

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...768&highlight=

**mahadevan** · 18th October 2005, 11:21 PM

Our epics have a lot of references to demons, are these demons a divergence from our ancestry in evolution, that emphasized on physical strength rather than intellect ?
In ramayana we do have monkey kindoms, are they also similar species that diverged from ours. Vaali/sukriva 's kingdoms had so many monkey soilders that are amenable like humans.

**Romani** · 20th October 2005, 04:10 PM

Dear friends,

I am a newbie here. Rarely have I seen such scholarly discussions on the Mahabharatam as I see here. My namaskaram to all the people who have contributed to the discussion.

While glancing thru the previous pages I saw a query from someone, on why Duryodhana with all his sins ended up in heaven. Since I have a theory of my own I would like to share it with you all. Let me whether I am right or wrong.

For all his sinful nature, Duryodhana personified the human element of bravery and manliness. He was the man who had no fear even the most dangerous circumstances. He embodied pride and self confidence. Let me quote from the Mahabharatam, where Duryodhana with his thighs broken down, in deep pain, with all his hopes dashed and himself awaiting death, tells Sanjaya to console his parents thus (note the number of times he asks with pride - who is more fortunate than himself)

Quote :

My parents are not ignorant of the duties of battle. Instructed by me, O Sanjaya, tell them that are afflicted with grief these words: I have performed sacrifices, supported a large number of servants properly, governed the whole earth with her seas! I stayed on the heads of my living foes! I gave wealth to my kinsmen to the extent of my abilities, and I did what was agreeable to friends. I withstood all my foes. Who is there that is more fortunate than myself? I have made progresses through hostile kingdoms and commanded kings as slaves. I have acted handsomely towards all I loved and liked. Who is there more fortunate than myself? I honoured all my kinsmen and attended to the welfare of all my dependants. I have attended to the three ends of human existence, Religion, Profit, and Pleasure! Who is there more fortunate than myself? I laid my commands on great kings, and honour, unattainable by others, was mine, I always made my journeys on the very best of steeds. Who is there more fortunate than myself? I studied the Vedas and made gifts according to the ordinance. My life has passed in happiness. By observance of the duties of my own order, I have earned many regions of blessedness hereafter. Who is there more fortunate than myself? By good luck, I have not been vanquished in battle and subjected to the necessity of serving my foes as masters. By good luck, O lord, it is only after my death that my swelling prosperity abandons me for waiting upon another! That which is desired by good Kshatriyas observant of the duties of their order, that death, is obtained by me! Who is there so fortunate as myself? By good luck, I did not suffer myself to be turned away from the path of hostility and to be vanquished like an ordinary person! By good luck, I have not been vanquished after I had done some base act! Like the slaughter of a person that is asleep or that is heedless, like the slaughter of one by the administration of poison, my slaughter hath taken place, for I have been slain as unrighteously, in contravention of the rules of fair fight! The highly blessed Ashvatthama, and Kritavarma of the Satwata race, and Saradwat's son Kripa, should be told these words of mine, 'You should never repose any confidence upon the Pandavas, those violators of rules, who have perpetrated many unrighteous acts!'

(MBH Shalya Parvan 9.61 Tr. Kisari Mohan Ganguli)

End Quote

**S.Balaji** · 19th November 2005, 01:51 PM

Romani...

Well said.... Kisari Mohan Ganguli is one of the veterans on epics......

Yes....its true that despite Duryodhana's wickedness and animosity towards Pandavas...he was a good ruler....administered his subjects well...

Lived like a true Kshatriya...and died as a Kshatriya....in a warfield

He finally reserved his rightful place in Heaven....

**Sudhaama** · 20th November 2005, 01:27 AM

... Why SWARGA for Duryodana.?

Originally Posted by S.Balaji

Romani...

Well said.... Kisari Mohan Ganguli is one of the veterans on epics......

Yes....its true that despite Duryodhana's wickedness and animosity towards Pandavas...he was a good ruler....administered his subjects well...

Lived like a true Kshatriya...and died as a Kshatriya....in a warfield

He finally reserved his rightful place in Heaven....

Duryodana was NEVER THE RULER KING on the Throne... but only his father Dhritharashtra, even on the day when a grave Injustice was meted out to Dhraupathi... on the commands of Duryodana... the EMBODIMENT of wickedness.

Mahabharatha nowhere praises Duryodana under any context ... but the Negative.

When the Question of Successor to Dhritharashtra was taken up for consideration... the Royal- Scholars -Team headed by Bhishma declared Duryodana as Unfit to become a King...

.. and only Yudhishtra was the most suitable and the best Qualified to occupy the Throne... by the dint of all the tenets of a Ruler Successor..

Such a spark of negation and Denial for the claim by Duryodana... enraged him against Bhishma and Pandavas... which was further fanned up by Karna.

Despite all the Negative points towards his discredit, Duryodana got qualified to reach SWARGA ... by the following justifications.

(1) Mahabharatha occurred at the final stages of Krishnawathara.. and so it forms part of it. Only on the appeal of Bhoomi-dhevi, Krishna had to take another birth on Earth, just to annihilate the mass of worst Sinners and establish the Greatness of Righteousness... especially amongst the Ruler Kings.. In that respect He needed the Co-operation of the Positive and Negative forces as well. Duryodana trapped under extreme Jealousy became IGNORANT on Life-principles.. Thus he fell in line with the machinations of Krishna, resulting in destroyal of all the mass of the Wicked forces in the shape of Mankind. .. which part of service to God even though on the Negative side, deserves recognition.

(2) As Kshathriya, Duryodana's duty was to face the War. He did it DUTIFULLY, for which he was rewarded.

(3) The most important factor is SAJJANA- SAHAVAASAM...Sasthras affirm, that even a worst Sinner can be condoned .. if he befriends and supports Good people so called Sajjanas. Duryodana was fully qualified in that respect by his TIMELY SUPPORT to Karna, as well as to keeping the Stalwarts like Bhishma, Kripa, Drona and so on.. along with his side... He even befriended Lord Krishna . Such high values of Royal- strategy should not be left unrecognised.

So,.. for taking the WRONG-SIDE... those Good people Karna, Bishma, Drona, Krupa and such others were miserably punished.

... while on the other side... just for joining and patronising the Sajjanas the RIGHT GREATS... the Wicked Duryodana was provisionally exonerated to Swarga. .. postponing his other part of facing the music for his sins.

One IMPORTANT factor... we must not forget. Swarga is ..ONLY A TEMPORARY STATUS of pleasure, on completion of which one has to take the due rebirth and face the past Remnant Karma.

Not similar to MUKTHI... Liberation from Rebirth... the Greatest outcome of God's grace saving from further onslaughts of sufferings.

Eternal Life- Lesson for Mankind... from God.... more by action than by Words.

**Raghu** · 21st November 2005, 03:40 PM

Yes, Like Sudhama sir said, Duryodhana never ruled Hastinapur, it was under the admin of His Father!

But one MUST accept the fact, that Duryodhana never used Yuth Adharma to in the war, well, may be except when abhimanyu was killed by a group of warriors, including Duryodhana him self!

**Sudhaama** · 21st November 2005, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Raghu

Yes, Like Sudhama sir said, Duryodhana never ruled Hastinapur, it was under the admin of His Father!

But one MUST accept the fact, that Duryodhana never used Yuth Adharma to in the war, well, may be except when abhimanyu was killed by a group of warriors, including Duryodhana him self!

One Criminal cruelly murdered his own mother, and then conducted her last rites, sincerely with pomp and great show.

In such a case,...Does he become qualified to be GLORIFIED... or CONDONED?

**Raghu** · 21st November 2005, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sudhaama Sir

Originally Posted by Raghu

Yes, Like Sudhama sir said, Duryodhana never ruled Hastinapur, it was under the admin of His Father!

But one MUST accept the fact, that Duryodhana never used Yuth Adharma to in the war, well, may be except when abhimanyu was killed by a group of warriors, including Duryodhana him self!

One Criminal cruelly murdered his own mother, and then conducted her last rites, sincerely with pomp and great show.

In such a case,...Does he become qualified to be GLORIFIED... or CONDONED?

Sudhama Sir, who duryodhana?

, pls explain

**Sudhaama** · 21st November 2005, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Raghu

Originally Posted by Sudhaama Sir

Originally Posted by Raghu

Yes, Like Sudhama sir said, Duryodhana never ruled Hastinapur, it was under the admin of His Father!

But one MUST accept the fact, that Duryodhana never used Yuth Adharma to in the war, well, may be except when abhimanyu was killed by a group of warriors, including Duryodhana him self!

One Criminal cruelly murdered his own mother, and then conducted her last rites, sincerely with pomp and great show.

In such a case,...Does he become qualified to be GLORIFIED... or CONDONED?

Sudhama Sir, who duryodhana?

, pls explain

My words can be taken in Two different senses.

(1) One as a Simile... Similarity... Parallel Example, similar to Literatures, including Thirukkuralh. So to say, the Answer whatever is due in the Example, will become applicable in the case of Duryodhana too.

(2) Two in the direct sense.. or Metaphor.. Imagine Dharma as Duryodana's mother he had already murdered tyrannically inch by inch since long years all through his past life....

... then preaching sermons to others and pretending as if he strictly follows the Rule-of War-Discipline and Battle-codes of practice.

All illusory and Self-centred Drama to cheat the Right-minded people.

A Simple example...

A murderer is rendered the punishment of Death. Can he ask back that the King also has become a Criminal by committing the same Crime of killing another criminal. So the King too deserves the equal punishment!!

Besides... the next and the MOST IMPORTANT MORAL LESSON ...in Mahabharatha...

Why God Krishna, showed Out-of- the- ways... to his followers Arjuna and Yudhishtra?... Can't He not have performed in the direct approaches and won over the Evils... without violating the War-Codes prevalent then?

By this does Krishna not deserve to be blamed for instigating Lawlessness, Violation of Moral-Codes, Partiality, Bias and Exploiitation of the Opponent's Dhaarmic adherences.?

I welcome Friends to answer this IMPORTANT QUESTION...

I will reply as the last... after hearing from all of you.