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senthil,
AhA! arpudham. :notworthy: Ponnaana varigaL, porikkappada vEndum. This says everything; 'you are asking an artist to confirm to a stand definition of song by a critic when an artist's sole preoccupation is to break that definition.'.
The depth in your thoughts makes us understand Maestro's music much better. Your writing skill is amazing. :clap: Please keep writing.
Ithe maathiri pala arputhamaana posts irukkumnu www.senthilv.com adichi paathen. pchh nope! Anyway, keep writing! Better we open a new thread, becos we shud be able to locate gems like these easily! Guys whats ur opinion?!?
Appadiye, namma P_R, V_S ellaaraiyum ezhutha vechi Book aa publish pannidalaam :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
MSV, whom I respect very much holds similar views and notions as yours. I don't reject merits in your arguments but I find your words and characterization of Raja for having an opinion opposite to yours disappointing. Criticism is fine but by disparaging Raja you are losing merits in your arguments. If music masters like MSV and Raja can agree to disagree yet be friendly, why should it be difficult for us to follow the same?
India is only place where we use songs in film. Most of famous musicians in rest of world are not connected to films. And instrumental film musicians like John Williams, Nina Rota, Hans Zimmer, Toru Takemitsu (just to name a few) have a great fan following. Raja has made even layman in TN comment and enjoy "re-recording" of a film.Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
Ha ha! Now we are moving into debating which creates bigger impact film or music. Not getting in to that argument. I'm a filmmaker myself so I will be biased for sure. I will just say this without getting into deep discussion -- Anna, Kalaignar, MGR, JJ, Rajni, Vijaykanth, Ronald Reagan, Arnold. All came from cinema, some with songs playing a part and others not much. They have changed the world around us.
Thanks V_S, Ajay & Vallavar. Very nice of you guys. I used to have a website not anymore. I can't change my username so stuck with it. :( It is indeed a nice idea to publish an e-book from all the posts in the forum. I learned a lot from this forum in the last ten years. So I'm sure it will be useful to do a compilation.
I dont think even IR would dispute that words make a difference in the song. Except that, he wants to go first - tune first - so that he has control over the sandham. But there are directors like Hariharan who take matters in to their hands and decide who should go first - for aadhi ushas ONV gets to go first ..for the kunnathE IR can bring out the romantic effect in music first. The director wants some story telling to continue in the lyrics without handicapped by the music director's sandham.
Music is an important part of our heritage - iyal, isai, naadagam. But our ancestors provided a way to look at the words from a sound perspective ..so that it can be set to music easily. (Maybe IR is more successful in the languages of one family - south indian , for this reason). There are examples of tamil literature where the raagam to be sung for that poem is specified/suggested (the thalam is dictated by the sandham/metre). I think traditionally, there was no distinction between musicians and poets (paanars).
In Europe, they took music to different heights using it in orchestral mode and in order to add or capture the grandeur of events (like the crowning of king).
Once they understood, the effect of multiple strands of music, they were able to capture much more complexity and convey more in their music (in one movie, IR uses counterpoints in the background score for a fight while a woman is being violated at the same). Later european music took a more mathematical approach and people were able to enjoy it even without lyrics as it was able to create a very nice mental imagery.
The orchestra was introduced to indian film music mainly for this reason. The european film makers in India suggested to indian musicians that a monophonic indian music will be insufficient for the visual of a big screen. Thus was born the genre of "indian film music". (That modern mixing and sound technology can work with single instrument sounds is a different story).
Well .. long story ..short ..music can take the lyrics to the common man or music needs the lyrics to reach the common man. But as I explained earlier, for the initiated in music, words are not needed. These people can enjoy music by itself (an alaap or a movement) or the literature by itself (kamba ramayanam).
That someone like IR would exalt music is not an attempt to put down literature it is just the perspective of an expert in one area.
(senthilv, I guess you wrote that awesome commentary on that ennuLLE song.. Folks.. you gotta read it to understand the directors perspective on music)
Senthilv - awesome post. Ippovum if people pretend that they don't get it, no choice but to smile at them. Idhula what makes it happy is fans of music (from supposedly opp camp) like Maddy and Ajay have appreciated and bolstered our point. In my view, it was always thus. Ooru rendu pattaa koothaadikku kondaattamgara maadhiri, irandu musical kalaignargaL idaiyE kOL mootti, sila kaviganrgal and iyakkunargal with vested interest were kuLir kaanjufying. MSV kaalathula there was a lyrical talent equal to him. AdhukkappuRam, kavingargal in mvovies have depended on Music Director only. After IR abandoned him, Vairamuthu was a nobody until Rahman patronised him. VM even sort of fought with Rahman. But Rahman being a diplomat, didn't let that become a big issue. Maybe in future an extra ordinary lyrical talent might emerge which restores lyric writer to eminence over musician but. After Kannadasan who achieved parity with the MD, we haven't had a talent of that order. Even outside this point, music reaches where words cannot. Idhu opinion kooda illai. Fact. No right minded person can deny this.
"Plum"-a ban pannittaangaLaa?
same doubt...
Yes, I see that status in his posts. Is it really true? Any issues?. If so, it is very sad and unfortunate.:sad:
from 7:45 in this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgkC-...feature=relmfu