Maddy - Vocabulary and inexperience issue. Seems to be not a true listener of Tamil music.
Vikram - One reason this guy came to limelight is due to raja's music ...Sethu, Kasi, Pithamagan...did not do justice in the interview..
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Maddy - Vocabulary and inexperience issue. Seems to be not a true listener of Tamil music.
Vikram - One reason this guy came to limelight is due to raja's music ...Sethu, Kasi, Pithamagan...did not do justice in the interview..
When it comes to 'integrity' or thozhil dharmam (intentionally not elaborating about the lack of it in Kamal) and sticking to one's principles, Raja scores.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
That said, Kamal flows along with time, while Raja chose to stay put (Progressing along doesn't mean you're doing the right thing) probably thinking that this is not the path he wants to take. In that respect, Raja stays a point ahead of Kamal in my book.
To me both of them seem to have lost their way at some time or the other...Raja sounds dated in his new numbers (yeah...yeah...I know I'm going to be slaughtered here for this blasphemy), while Kamal goes on doing meaningless manmadhan Sombus
Sakala, first of all, thanks for all the links, great job there!
Shankar, interesting points there (one thing I've seen in the hub is that ManSombu has more fans than IR's new albums! if such a comparision can be made)
I would probably twist Sakala’s question a bit and put it this way (at the risk of being seen as an adhigaprasangi):
We have seen some mesmerizing cinema/music ideas from your combination with Raaja so far. However, do you think the skills of you two have been explored fully?
if not, what in your opinion is the most significant of the things, preventing you two from coming out with that one absolutely magical film – meaningful writing, honest, innovative filming with an impeccable soundtrack (extra-special selfish plug: live instruments only!)? The one film that could bring eternal satisfaction to fans of you two.
Sorry, we will not take budget for an answer, for the internet has, fortunately or unfortunately, exposed us to world cinema, where we see quality films (German, Polish, Japanese, etc) made from budgets that probably would be your makeup expenditure.
+1, pazhassi rAjA and pA were exceptions (but both were 2009-ers)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankar
Dated? I think dating applies only to technology, not for art. If so we would not still love 60s - KVM, SDB, 70s - Salilda, RDB, MSV, 80s-IR songs even today. The magician is either simply lost touch or bored with magic or as some people claim here - his magic has transcended common people like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankar
We do see a spark here and there now and then like this one: http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp...221%27&lang=en
Nicely put, genesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
Usha uthup interview:
http://www.filmfare.com/articles/ush...ingg-2434.html
"Illaiyaraja is her favourite composer. “Everyone is good. But no one has the knowledge of music like Raja sir. Be it Indian ragas, western classical, Indian folk or western pop, he has a thorough knowledge of them all."
thanks,
Krishnan
ஷங்கர், ஒரு மனிதன், 900 படங்கள் முடித்துவிட்டு, 5000 பாடல்களை இசையமைத்துவிட்டு, புதிதாக வரும் ஒரு படத்திற்கு, புதிதாகவும் ட்ரெண்ட்-புதுமையாகவும், இதுவரை இசையமைத்த தன்னுடைய, அல்லது மற்ற இசையின் சாயல்கள் இல்லாது, முற்ரிலும் புதிதாக ஒரு மெட்டு போடவெஏன்டுமெனில், அதே இடத்தில் இருக்கும் மற்ற இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் ஓட்டமெடுத்து ஓடி விடுவார்கள்! ஆனால் ராஜா சும்மா சஸ்டைன் பண்ணாமல், எவ்வளவோ மடங்கு பரவாயில்லை என்கிற அளவுக்கு புதிய ட்யூஙள் தருகிறார். ராஜாவின் சமீப இசை பிடிக்கும் பிடிக்கலை என்பதெல்லாம் வேரு விஷயம், ஆனால், அழகர்சாமியின் குதிரை எல்லாம் அவருடைய தொள்ளாயிரத்துச் சொச்ச படம் என்பதை நாம் எண்ணிப்பார்க்காமல் இன்றும் அவர் சூப்பர்ஹிட் பாடல்களை தரவேண்டுமென, ரிடையராகிர வயசிலும், எதிர்பார்க்கிரோமென்ரால், நம்முடைய இசை அறிவு, அல்லது ராஜாவின் திறமை அளவு பற்றின நம்முடைய புரிதல் அளாவு, எவ்வளவு கீழே உள்ளதென புரிந்துகொள்ளவும்.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankar
அதாவது, இதுவரை(சென்ற நூற்றாண்டில்) ராஜா செய்த சாதனையின் மேக்னிட்யூட் நமக்குப்புரிந்துவிட்டால், அழகர்சாமியின் இசை கேட்டுவிட்டு, இப்பெல்லாம் ராஜா இசை முன்புபோல இல்லல்ல?!? என்ற அடிமுட்டாள்தனமான கேள்வியை கேட்கமாட்டோம்தானே? நான் வெரைட்டி,கற்பனைத்திறன் பற்றி மட்டுமே பேசுகிறேன்
அதே சமயம் வருடத்திற்கு ரெண்டே படம் தந்துவிட்டு பெயரை ரீடெயின் செய்யும் தற்கால இசையமைப்பாளர்களை தூக்கி நிறுத்துகிரோம்.
தொழில் தர்மம் பற்றியெல்லாம் கம்பேர் செய்கிரீர்கள், நான் இன்றும் யார் ஹிட்ஸ் தருகிரார்கள், யாருக்கு சம்பளம் அதிகம், யாருக்கு மார்கெட் இன்றும் இருக்கிறது, இதுவரை யார் அதிக வெற்றி தந்திருக்கிறார்கள் என்பது பற்றியெல்லாம் பேசவே இல்லை. செய்யும் தொழிலில் தன்னளவிலான திறமை யாருக்கு அதிகம் என்றுதான் கேட்டேன். தனிமனித மூளைத்திறமை என்று வந்தால், கற்பனைத்திறன், செயல்வேகம், வெற்றிகளின் எண்ணிக்கை, வெளியிட்ட படைப்புகளிலுள்ள விஷயஞானத்தின் அளவு இவையெல்லாம் வைத்துப்பார்த்தால் நிச்சயம் ராஜா தான் முதலிடம், கமலுக்கு இரண்டாமிடம் தான், அதே சமயம், மூன்றிலிருந்து பத்தாம் இடம் வரை காலி தான்.
சமீபத்தில் விஜய் ஆன்டனி பேட்டியில் சொன்னது - ராஜா என்ற ராட்சச யானை தின்றுவிட்டு போட்ட மிச்சத்தை வைத்துதான் நாங்களெல்லாம் காலத்தை ஓட்டுகிறோம் - அவரும் சமகால இசையமைப்பாளர்தான். அழகர்சாமியின் இசை பிடிக்கலை என்று சொல்லும் சராசரி ரசிகனும் சமகால ரசிகன் தான். ஆனால் இருவருக்கும் (ராஜாவின் சமீப இசயை விட்டுவிடுவோம்) இடையே, "ராஜா என்றால் யார்?" என சரியாக முழுதாகப் புரிந்தவர் யார்? ரசிகனா அல்லது விஜய் ஆன்டனியா?!?
Guys,
I dont understand the so called statement "show casing or extracting the talent to the extent/fully". Can anyone judge/measure left and right extent of ones talent? AFA IR concerned he is thinking that ASK RR is world class and personally he feel he has improved a lot compared his early days. BUT according to folks, we were talking about old BGMs like Varusham 16, Thalabathy, Nayagan. So it is impossible to have people in the same plane. On the Kamal part, he may be thinking Mumbai Express, Manadhan Ambu as one step further from his past works. But we dont think so. Rather we were upset with such movies saying he is wasting his time/talent.
So let us stop talking like "giving the best *EVER*" and so.
From my point of view (who does not know anything about music other just finding whether it is soother/pleasant to my heart or not) is that his best is already there.
Entertainment, vaasthavam dhaan.
My post was not exactly a rant but merely about my (selfish) longing to see Kamal in more meaningful movies/roles; simple yet gripping tales like Mahanathi, Devar Magan, Guna where there was more sincerity than compromises in the filmmaking. The fact that both of these mavericks are ageing, inevitable though it may be, is saddening, and it only pains me further, when time and effort gets eaten away in ventures like Dasa and Mambu (for Kamal; Raaja’s case is quite peculiar in this regard, where often a seemingly dud movie can have some really good songs and bgm!)
The track record of this combo is very evidently exquisite and Raaja seems inspired to bring out something special every time they work together.
Of course, we already have enough fodder from all that has been offered to us so far, but like I said earlier, its my naïve selfishness that leaves me yearning for more. Yen vekamketta peraasai!
+1 ...................Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
I liked most of Balki's comments, except this: "his tunes are simple...etc" or something of that sort
Thalaivan's lines were great as always, though one would have loved to hear more...
Yeah, Kamal sir's one was the only worth watching video. I am okay with Balki too as he has shown himself as HC fan of Raja many a times and not a man with music knowledge; so we can accept his comments. I agree with his Aadhangam that the other part of India was not lucky enough to listen his songs/compositions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
Highly possible thing. But sadly we don;t have the level of native music experts who can fully explore the compositions and compare them with world's bests. But more than bringing that to paper, most of us have logically, at many places, felt his Himalayan high talent. Without doubt, his musical talents/works must be deeply analyzed and presented in a simple manner, for most of us to really understand the magnitude of his talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by entertainment
Nobody is raving about his last work, though most of us find it as best of the recent lot(2010-2011)Quote:
Originally Posted by entertainment
Look what she also says : "Name any RD composition and I will name the original." :shock: :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by krish244
That's quite interesting!
(I can name one song, mil gayA - tere liyE of hum kisisE kum naheen is ABBA's mAmAmiA, same song which MSV also copied in ninaiththAlE inikkum)
Excellent post SKV :clap: Very interesting to read and I agree 100% with your thoughts. Rightly said, it is very difficult to understand the magnitude of contribution Raja has offered, along with the quality. Still I could not imagine how could have composed 55 films in one year with background score too (average of 40 films per year that time). Manobala was telling recently in some TV show, that they used to be in queue under the shades of trees in Prasad studios for hours to get Raja's music. :notworthy: Still I believe he can even do that today.
And top of all, many music listeners nowadays are not giving any credit for Raja's magnanimous effort eventhough they claim they were (and not are) Raja fans very proudly, just dismissing with one or two superficial sentences, 'why he is doing like that nowadays and why he is not able to give that much hits' and comparing with other MDs and their hits which is very sad.
It takes more than a life time to understand Raja's compositions and his monstrous contribution to music overall.
இளையராஜாவையும் கமலையும் ஒப்பிடுவது, பாரதியாரையும் mkt-யையும் ஒப்பிடுவது போன்றது. 50 வருடங்கள் கழிந்து கமல் பெரும்பாலும் மறக்கப்படுவர். பாரதியாரும் இளையராஜாவும் மக்கள் நினைவில் நிற்பார்கள்.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakalakalakalaa vallavar
இப்போல்லாம் மாசக்கணக்கா - சில கேஸ்களில் வருஷக்கணக்கா - நிக்க வேண்டி இருக்கு ... இல்ல இல்ல, லண்டன், மொரீஷியஸ், ஆஸ்திரேலியா-ன்னு கூட்டிட்டு போக வேண்டி இருக்கு. (எல்லாம் கழிஞ்சிட்டும்Quote:
Originally Posted by V_S
சில வாரங்களுக்கு மேல் சிலாகிக்கிற மாதிரி ஒன்னும் கெடக்கறதில்லை)
It's true that music in general (or any art form) doesn't go out of date. So, in a literal or technical sense, the 'dated' word may be inaccurate as genesis has pointed out.
However, from any longterm IR-admirer point of view, he was the king in trend setting in the whole country in his earlier days. He was regarded as someone "way ahead of his time". For e.g. R D Burman (and not some novice fan) reportedly remarked on kOzhi koovuthu that Raja has done something "10 years ahead" of others. So, the dated part should be taken as 'trend-setting' or similar emotional / feeling POV.
That way, even those appreciating recent output of IR would agree that "the feel" is not forward-looking, trendy or even consistent. For e.g. I've seen many in the hub calling 'ayyanAr' (or some other work) possibly done a few years ago and doesn't reflect IR's current sounds :wink: Even in the case of kadha thodarunnu, 'ArO pAdunnu dhoorE' is acknowledged as contemporary / mudhi-mudhi-like-sophi while 'mazhavillu' sounding "dated / poor synth work etc".
I took Shankar's 'dated' comment in that sense and agree. Sad but true, IR isn't the trend setter (in songs) anymore.
App, :lol: Yes. But the point I wanted to make is they were in queue just because Raja was already engaged in music composing for other films/directors, and not just because of any other non-musical reasons. So the appointment was first-come-first-served basis.:smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
I think you got it.
V_S,
Yes, yes, I got the point about his being extremely busy.
I just added that despite that the output was phenomenal and the wait time was nothing compared to what happens with later-day MDs :-)
In the SPB-IR thread, today posted about nenjaththaikkiLLathE, the movie that got released in the same year - 1980 - in which Johny (see, the same director), kallukkuL eeram, nizhalgaL, moodupani, Guru, ullAsappaRavaikaL, murattukkALai and some more came out!
Ask any current MD to do even 10% of that kind of numbers in one year (most can't do in their whole career)!
True. RDB himself was a great admirer of raja and for an interview he gave for a daily,in 1993,when raja was at the zenith of his career,he said that "the only composer in front of whom he felt inferior was raja". As you rightly said, raja was way ahead of his time and was an inspiration for any composers during those period.Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
SKV,Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
>>>>>
ஆனால் ராஜா சும்மா சஸ்டைன் பண்ணாமல், எவ்வளவோ மடங்கு பரவாயில்லை என்கிற அளவுக்கு புதிய ட்யூஙள் தருகிறார்.
<<<<<
Will someone retain tendulkar in the indian cricket team if he doesn't deliver, and bask in the past glory? "evLo madangu paravayillai" doesn't suit a once-in-a-century person like Raja. "10 hits kuduthAchu...seri 4 flop thandhA thappillai" isn't the standard Raja set us up for. He kept delivering hits after hits till 90s. Let's admit that he got bored or no story was inspiring enough for him to raise the bar, and challenge himself or God forbid - he just lost it!
I personally thought ASK's score was very nice. Same with pazhassi (hence my last claim above doesn't stand good)...What I don't know is: why should accept some un-inspiring movies, and provide mediocre music. If age and 5k songs are slowing him down, let him accept it, and provide those gems which are worth remembering. Who cares about the number of movies he scores for?? I, for one, will be happy if he gives one song a year, and that's an "adhi ushas..." rather than 15 velu prabakaran movies.
Digression:
When I meant thozhil-dharman what I meant is: When you speak so much about quality, world class movie etc, and then go and make a manmadhan sombu that too with a KSR, and DSP, it's hypocrisy. What WC are we talking about?? How long has it been since kamal made a sensible movie?? Why should he do all those stupid coin-tossing act like Vijay, when he can make another Virumandi.
Kamal will talk a whole lot about Raja...and then ask DSP to compose and sing a number where the vocals remind me of a constipated owl's cry.
I heard good things about a movie called AraNya kANdam, and I believe jackie shroff is acting in it...I heard it's an aged gangster's role...Why can't Kamal make movies like those?? He still wants to run around trees with Trisha.
A genius like kamal doesn't have much time...he's getting older by the day, and we can see it. Now, instead of consolidating his portfolio with more Virumandis and anbE sivams, he's making "viswaroopam"s and "dasavatharam"s...I had this unfortunate chance of watching Virumandi and dasa on the same day, in that order...the only way for Kamal to redeem himself is to kick those yes-men (KSR, crazy, Ramesh arvind, DSP...in that order) out, and collaborate with some serious movie makers.
idhaiyellAm thEvaiyAna aLavukku alasiyAchu Shankar (in Tamil Films Section in Aandavar thread). oNNu paNNunga nInga - andha threadukku vAnga. Anban kitta archanai vAngikkalAm :)
Shri Rama Rajyam is set for release in Sept..
http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/t...cle/67532.html
Check out the promo..SPB in full form for Maestro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNCV7...layer_embedded
The adulation poured on MKT is no less than what Ilaiyaraaja got in his time. If MKT can be forgotten, who can tell what time has in store for Ilaiyaraaja. Amongst those who were born in the 90s, it is not easy to find too many Ilaiyaraaja fans. Yes, they like his songs. But ask them about their favorite MD, Ilaiyaraaja will not be the name that comes out on top. Sad, but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
par,
If you do some research on the 80s born generation, you will find that lot of people started by liking Rahman and have slowly become Raja fans. (Not that they hate other music but they have started loving Raja.) Yes, the current generation likes MDs like Harris and Yuvan, not to mention Rahman. But as they grow and their musical sensibilities grow, they have no choice but to come towards Raja. For no music director in India has done as much musically as Raja has done. And I say this as someone who loves a lot and lot of music directors. Though I know predicting the future is risky business but 10 yrs from now, the 90s generation will worship Raja. His music guarantees his immortality. Of that I have no doubt.
Nadiya and Kushbu were more popular in TN than IR and Kamal at certain points in their career. I place MKT in that category.Quote:
Originally Posted by par
genesis,
I dunno about MKT the actor, but MKT the singer (manmadha leelaiyai venRAr uNdO) won't be that quickly forgotten :-)
Shankar
Largely agree. Some disagreement with Mannavan Sembu. alEkkA Kamal thread ku shift aittomna nalla irukkum, lighta traffic boost aagum :razz:
Free-ya vidunga plum...I'd taken a break from TFMpage for quite some time, and happened to pass-by this way :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
I'm not here to stay...I'm on the move :)
Sureshji,
Well said and exactly mirrored my thoughts. It takes time for younger generation to catch-up, understand and appreciate Raja's immortal music. Let them settle down slowly and they are in for a bigger treat when they grow up. As we grow older, the music seems to expand it's horizon in front of us without we even knowing it. Just like an old question "what is knowledge?". "Whatever remains after your forget everything". Raja's music is like that!
Thanks for sharing ..very emotional ..couldn't control my tears .Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_musing
AbsolutelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
That's why I said 90s :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Speaking for myself, Ilaiyaraaja was my fav. musician from my teens. As I got older, I started liking the earlier songs by MSV, VR, G Venkatesh, G Ramanathan, MKT... But they couldn't replace Ilaiyaraaja. He will remain there till my last day or till my ability to hear fades (dread the thought :)).
As for younger generation coming back to Ilaiyaraaja... I too hope sanity will prevail in the end.
MDs and actors are different entities, let alone actresses :)Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
I brought in the comparison btw Kamal and raja ONLY in terms of talent, not popularity and success.(that don't mean u need to exclude them but still talent is the discussion-topic) I don't know how deep was MKT's talent analysed but in this digital era, Raja's works are much widely analysed and appreciated. He is the last connection btw the old of the oldest & new of the newest, as told by a hubber here.Quote:
Originally Posted by par
There is just no alternative for the human talent Raja possess. Thatswhy i took Kamal haasan, another brainy genius and also said that IMHO, the 3rd to 10th positions are vacant!
Mozart's tunes are still popular. Unshakable fame. I don;t know how other MD's stand on this, but Raja is sure to be heard for atleast 50 years from now. After that, either his music will sail by itself, like those of the eternal composers, or if some preparatory arrangements are made by existing generation of that time, it will easily survive for some more years.