I 100% agree with you Thumburu. VS is most underrated and abused MD in TFM. OTOH, Yuvan is the most over rated and worthless MD in TFM. I think Imman, Vijay Antony, DSP have better creativity than Yuvan.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
This is true - today the market is only for kuththu songs. Almost every MD in TFM is making them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
சொல்வனம் article எல்லாம் வெறும் ராஜா பஜனை. I am not taking them seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
Thanks guys for your support. Am I also abused in TFM, very sad to hear, I will work on it to improve:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes View Post
it is not a wise thing to expect ARR or yuvan or any1 now to go fully carnatic as there is no audience for that kind of rooted music in TFM anymore.
Genesis says...
This is true - today the market is only for kuththu songs. Almost every MD in TFM is making them.
It is not true.
From his debut, Rahman has been giving carnatic/ hindustani compositions, everybody is digging.
anbendra mazhaiyiley......
new age fusion in ragam megh malhar in Thakshak.
sarfaroshi ki tamana....
narumugaiye......
uyirum neeye....
kismat se tum..... more more
A.R. Rahman has been feasting this generation with Indian Classical music always.
A.R.Rahman is TRUE TORCH BEARER of Indian classical music.
Regarding SOLVANAM articles etc... I can't comment. I never read them anyway.
vinatha.
Ellam ok pa, Ponnar Shankar Paattu epadi iruku did any one listen to it?
K,Idhe Kelvi than Enakkum..? Whatever hapnd to Ponnar Shankar its been 4 days since music released..nobody seems to have gotten hold of a copy,no links anywhere on the net..totally clueless..
genesis,
In one fell swoop you have ensured no one will take you seriously. Your hatred for Yuvan is clear and that you are highly dismissive of an artist who has played some lovely passages in Tamil film music because he is featured in a webzine which you don't like is an indication that you are not in here for an informed debate.
And baroque's statement that Rahman was the 'torch bearer' of Indian Classical Music was truly ROFL.
V_S: You are so humble :) That puts you in the top bracket as per today's standards.
Anyway, out for a week with no access to net. Hopefully 'Ponnar Shankar' audio will be out by the time I am back. Experience has taught me that the reaction to any Raja album is going to be the same. The usual suspects (including your's truly) will say the usual things :lol:
Suresh, She was saying that Rahman was "torchering" Indian carnatic music and she is right :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
About vidyasagar - my point exactly. I fail to understand why people here or generally never compare VS against IR & why the comparisons are always with ARR/yuvan?why save VS from the wrath(thats what comparisons result in anyway) that the other two are subjected to? :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by genesis
No comments abt Imman & DSP :-|
Baroque's opinion that ARR is the true torch bearer - isnt it like saying a bit too much? I am not a typical IR-Fan-Who-Bashes(has to bash)-ARR-Music. I listen to everyone's music & i have selective favourites from every composer (irrespective of the name). But objectively speaking, I felt baroque's opinion is far fetched, particularly now when the number of carnatic songs by ARR has decreased (or vanished?) drastically.
But then, to each his/her own!
I agree with Genesis that VS is most underrated Music Director and Yuvan is most overrated MD.
even I am surprised, Why VS name is not coming into these discussions.
The Sad state of affair is that the Audio Company has not yet been finalized for 'Ponnar Shankar' :( They had a release function on that date since Mu.kA will get busy with Election campaign later. I heard the banner is almost finalized and we will get the audio out in the market in a couple of days!
can't wait 'RELEASE THE AUDIOOOOOOOOO....' :curse:
VS will not feature in these discussions becos he doesn't have a style of his own. He Imitates MSV or Raaja mostly. Agreed that Yuvan is over-rated sometimes but can't agree on VS being under-rated. his rating is right as to his caliber!
This means there was an audio release... without the release of the audio.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Personal opinion: This is RIDICULOUS!
Hmm.. Interesting RS.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Do all IR fans really avoid IR-VS comparisons just because he doesnt have a style of his own? Or are they condoning VS because he imitates Raaja (& MSV) and are always ready to aim at ARR/Yuvan just because they dont imitate Raaja? If yes, then it looks as if "imitating Raaja" is the sole certification needed by composers today, to escape the wrath of IR fans. If No, then there could be some other reason right?
Also, it is not just abt VS alone but atleast dozen composers out there, in all the south-indian languages, who somehow never get to face the wrath of IR fans, whatever their quality of music is. :-)
Please - can we all get back to discussing IR's albums alone?
Right now the interludes of "Adiye Ivale" have me in "loop mode".
After Balesh's interview which had some detailed references to how "Naayanam" and "shehnai" are being used,
The interludes of this song are case in point. The nadhaswaram play in this song - has to be true to the context of "kovil thiruvizha" and yet be something
new as far as creativity is concerned - result is an interlude that doesnt do too much of "melody playing" but straight forward robust playing that puts you right into
the milieu..
baroque,
It is true that ARR gave some good classical composiition. My only problem with his composition is, I feel it have traces of earlier work. For example
Kismat me - have the traces of "Sonnadhu Needhaana". In place where Jaanam ab na choodenge will have higher degree of resemblence.
Hone Hone pyar lage(words may not be exact) - 1947 earth - have a good resemblence of "Andhru orunaal Aanandha tirunaal" - This will have exact match at "Padi Vizhigal moodi kidhanthaen".
"Vidukathaiyaa En Vazhkai" from Muthu - Resembles "Ullathil Nalla Ullam" from Karnan.
"Kanoodu Kanbadellam" from jeans resembles "Singara Vellanne Nee Vaa"
"Neetru keta paadal"(words may not be exact) from Azhagiya Tamizh Magan has traces of "Aagaya Vennilavae Arungarum vellai thaano"
There are many more if you think about it. I think sometime back you mentioned resemblence of "Kuruku Siruthavale" and "Nallavarkellam Saatchigal Undu" from Tyagam.
My observation is Rahman generally observes when given a situation to compose, who has done the best in the similar situation in past. He tries to draw lines parallel to that there by having this resemblences. While his execution is perfect, his conception of a tune I feel is not from scratch. Does not mean he copied, it is like derived class(for software professionals), which will have baseclass attribute but new stuff added too.
The same approach of Rahman is ensuring success for him in all languages. Proabably he looks at the work of musicians on that arena and take it from there.
His recently Oscar nominated song "If I Rise" I feel is Parallel line to "Enya's" type songs.
Rahman's classical compositions carries Indian classical music gamaka proyogam.
I don't think Rahman is thinking or doing whatever you assume.
Whatever....
anyway.... this is IR thread, let it get back.
Vinatha.
I donno but even Raaja does the same. "Using a reference" and constructing something new on top is nothing new in creative fields.Quote:
Originally Posted by prasad_subbu
Classic Example - If you had listened to "Maayakkannaadi" songs which come with the "composing session" bit,this is how it unfolds.
Raja: Oru basic love feel thaan illaya?
Cheran: aamam.
Immediately Raja begins to hum "Poongaathu thirumbuma tune" and does Sa Pa and from there lands up in "Konji Konji".
I wouldnt be surprised if ARR does something similar. It is done primarily to get the mind tuned in and if it carries the original inspiration
along - it doesnt mean someone is lesser creator.
Cant you see "naan paarthadhile aval oruththiyai thaan" in "pudhu maappiLLaikku"?
As far as carnatic bonafides are concerned, when necessity comes , every music director will be pushed to create a carnatic song.
ARR in his early days has done some real carnatic gems too - "EnnavaLe" and "Naru mugaye" are no less carnatic gems.
If we are bothered about quantity, we know how ARR is selective and this automatically rules out "quantity" argument.
Lets get back to enjoying discussing or discussing about enjoying Raaja's music ..
Went to landmar today .. Ponnar shankar hasnt come yet !
ya ya..lets get back from digressions! the audio release fiasco of ponnar shankar is frustrating. Pch..
Seekarama release pannanga pa :(
One good news though..Happi movie release date is confirmed as 15th April..so we can expect the audio atleast a week b4 the movie release..
Absolutely and amazingly ridiculous!Quote:
Originally Posted by raagas
Brings to my mind a conversation from the Kabhi Kabhi remix version from Avar Enakke Sontham.
Film music troupe - iyya ungalukku enna srudhi?
Bhagavathar: Yellam en vidhi!
http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=381368
Apologies for posting a download link, but thiraipaadal and Raaga dont have the full version in them. Raaja runs riot in this song. First a Thyagaraja krithi in classic rock format with electric guitars and acoustic drums. And then Kabhi Kabhi in pakka carnatic style with sangadhis and swarams! The dialogs and lyrical twists are hilarious!
TMS and IR bring down the house, advanced detonated demolition!
Thumburu, please check PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
RS, Thanks for the information.
"without aware of this I had asked lot of my source to check the cd in most of the shops in chennai and PONARSKR (ponnar Sankar) keys were cursing me like anything as I had disturbed them lot in the past 4 days .. :)"
Jaiganes,
Good points. But if you see the quantity of IR output, these kind of incidences form very less percentage. Having said that, point is accepted.
Baroque,
What is Gamaka Prayogam? Is there any major difference between compositions using Gamaka prayogam and others. Interested to learn, if you can elaborate.
Each raga in ICM is unique because of gamakas... ie variation of pitch of a note, its oscillations between notes.
each raga has rules, standards on these gamakas applied on a specific notes.
more you listen to ICM aalapanas, RTPs, (instrumental and vocal) you start picking up the raga bhaavam.
I am also a regular listener to katcheries, listen to rtps, slogams, bajans etc... without theory knowledge, Prasad.
The point is, Rahman indeed gives ICM- ragas to this generation.
From Roja , Iruvar days to Swades, Jodha Akbar etc...now.
In fact from ARR, GVP to Vishal Barathwaj... every fellow is delivering ICM whenever they can for this generation.
Shri.ilayaraja's music , his style of usage fancies some of your mood, just go & enjoy.
**********************************
Coming soon...PONNAR SHANKAR-SHRI.ILAYARAJA.
vinatha.
Baroque: ARR is torchbearer of ICM
IR fans: yengalukku pandham ellam venam. Betramax light dhaan venum
J/K Vinatha. Many of us do know ARR’s usage of classical music (Water being one of my favs, Piya ho and Bangri marori two absolute gems).
The grouse of some (‘classical purists’) fans here, the way I understand, is that the popular contemporary MDs should, in addition to what they’re doing already, use more of classical music to try and increase its reach among today’s youth.
Indeed, even as recent as last year, did we get to listen to beautiful numbers from VB like Bhadi dhere and Ab muje koi in Ishqya (and there’s Narthagi that I’m yet to listen, but I see is getting good WOM here in the hub). Just that we need more of this. Peace.
Amidst all this, Shankar 4 naal munnala kelambi ponaar, innum aala kaanum. Sigh!
They will do.
idho... Shri.IR podapporaaru paarunga in PS.
Vinatha.(tera mera pyaar amar, phir kyon mujhako lagata hai dar)
ah.. good to see mentions about Vishal Bharadwaj too here! This is what I have been saying folks. There are composers beyond ARR/Yuvan too, to talk about.:-)
I like the work of Vishal & i often wonder why IR fans never bring in other composers like him, for comparisons. Not just ARR/Yuvan.
But anyway, lets not digress more! a good news - about Happi - is certainly welcome. More updates needed.
That's is the upbeat spirit.
oh... yeah.
Hip hip Hooray Vishal Barathwaj!
சொல்லலாமே in Shri.IR's thread.
Everybody love
Maachis
kaminey
to
ishqia
7 khoon maaf
the RUSKIN BOND'S The Blue Umbrella ... what a beautiful movie.
They should take more of these kind of movies, treat the young adults with intelligence.
தமிழ்ளேயும் இந்தமாதிரி படங்கள் எடுக்கணும். இந்த generation குழந்தைங்களுக்கு எதுக்கு தலை, வால், அடிச்சு நொறுக்கிடுவேன், காணாம போயிடுவ empty sensations
http://www.raaga.com/channels/hindi/movie/H000041.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABpLjADMH04
pani pani re......Lata.....90s Vishal Bharathwaj.
With the yearning mood,
Wait for Ponnar shankar to arrive soon.
Vinatha.
ARR is a "free form composer" IR is a classical composer ie. even for ordinary situation he goes to his library of raagams and starts composing with it as the base. Even thanni thotti thEdi vandha kannukutti naan is based on a classical raagam. ARR will do a 'classical' composition only if the situation is called for. IMHO, if ARR consistently used raagams as base for all songs, he probably would not have sounded different from IR and hence successful.
(Re: VS - I am with rs. I dont think he is that original, but he does know to build a strong tune, just like IR and other old MDs who use raagams as base)
saamingala...
idha comparison discussion kal thondra kaalathukkum munnalaye mudinju poyaachu. edhukku marubadiyum?
plss. get back to the subject...
Re: other composers. I like all the fun songs of ARR. My other favorites were Ramesh Vinayagam and in Hindi (Ismail Darbar). I listen to IR specifically because he delivers me a specific genre that not many MDs are catering. Sometime back I got a 2-CD compilation of KJY's songs and I love all the songs in these two CDs irrespective of the MDs. This is what I call as the "Indian Film Music" genre and IR continues to provide songs in this genre.
EnnaikkO oru naaLaikku enakku post pannanum time/intereset vandhirukku. En discourage pannareenga ?
yaaru pannaa? innikku physics exam, neenga chemistry paper answer dhaan ezhudhuvennu adam pidikkappadaadhu? sariya?Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
Jai, the post was relevant to the topic of classical music output of composers. It was not in anyway negative to any MD also. I would not post anything if I felt it did not add any value. I appreciate you on trying to keep the thread to the topic, but I think these are healthy and informative digressions, if not to you but to many of the new comers to the thread. Well. I will leave it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
I didnt mind you saying IR as a classical composer or how he has done classical composition, but saying XYZ was "some thing else" - well -it might be very innocently put, but we have to take into the account of the history of hub where such innocent remarks run into pages of discussion about ABC vs XYZ and everyone forgetting what was being discussed in the first place. Having said that I agree that composition structure and style of Raja's music needs to be discussed, but probably in a different thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
Jai - If you recall it all started with someone saying IR is the only MD with complete understanding of Carnatic and Hindustani music. If IR bhagthas stop making such all sweeping statements, we would not have got here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
I am sorry to say, but IR forum is strictly being monitored for IR praise only (even at the cost of other composers, lyricist etc etc). It is become customary to put one down when he/she offends IR bhagthas here. For this forum to be healthy, everyone's view shall be allowed and respected.
P.S: ARR's forum is also becoming like this, but it has not become this bad.
Genesis - did you read this in my post - "IMHO, if ARR consistently used raagams as base for all songs, he probably would not have sounded different from IR and hence successful." Do you consider this as dig or praise of ARR ? Yes I am a fan of IR's music, but I am not that much of a music ignoramus to undermine the work of Oscar-award winning MD.
Genesis,
"Ithu Enga Area Ulla Varaadha" dialogue is what I could recollect. This "IR Album" category is created to appreciate and express some disappointments (by HC IR Fans) about IR Albums. Many of them who visit this page are HC IR Fans. So teaching rules will not work out. We are here because we love IR. Because we love him a lot we obviously tend to keep him high. I think that is psychologically behavior and seen everywhere in the world. KAKKAIKKU THAN KUNJU PON KUNJU. If you think we dont think balanced/equal, never mind. We are happy with what we think/talk.
This is my observation. Not intending to hurt anyone :).
Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis