Bala, Song sounded good. I guess its not final version or so. (I didn't attend the program! but got to know all the micro movements happened there. And also came to know about Raja's new website http://www.ilayathalam.com/
Am irritated to the core, they are diluting the Genius! (Both the Be With me Event and the website!)
KKK unseletted - original malayalam "Balaram" deserved the credit and KH missed the bus when he decided to do the movie with truth king instead of Mamookka.Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
wiki says 'AvanAzhi' (was the Mammootty character called Balram in that movie too?).Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
BTW, I quit defending SBharathi (or SingSRao) in the hub :-)
App - nidhAnam. I understand your paasam for SB. But how does panner pushpangaL justify giving credit to SB for Gunaa? adhu endha ball park, idhu endha ball park? Creative Vision apdinnu PArthA what is SB's level? adhai edhai vechu edai pODaRadhu? Non Kamal movies of SB right? What does that tell us? Barring KKK, again with Kamal as producer and not inconceivable creative contribution to the project, what can you claim for the artistic vision of SB?
I remember - Chinna Mappillail, En Thamiz En MakkaL(NT rasigan nAnE solREnga, kOdi roobai koduthAlum pArthu tholaichudAdhInga), Chinna Vadhyar(idhu SingethamO?). sari Paneer Pushpangal - but what aesthetic in Paneer P makes you think SB's creative vision can give us Gunaa?
Singetham on the other hand I ahve a lot of respect for his creative vision. But still, his best works are with Kamal. Apple soos directornu solla mudiyAdhu.
paasam vERU, kadamai vERu - ungaLukku theriyAdhadhillai :)
Singeetham's first movie with Kamal was Sommakkodidhi Sokkokkadidhi(Iru nilavugal in tamil I think - the one with the anandam adhu ennada song). Quie enjoyable - and I would probably give full credit to SSR for that. No signs of serious input from Kamal in a light film, that is, in some ways, a precursor to the screenplay contrivances of MMKR. So, one can imagine SSR's contribution to MMKR must have been quite solid.
Singeetham >>>>> Santhana Barathy (sadly, despite his Panner Pushpangal and Raja association, app.)
ஆவணங்களையே எதிர்காலம் நம்பும். இப்போது நாம்(பெரும்பாலோர்) எப்படி பழங்கால ஆவணங்களை நம்பியே ஜல்லியடிக்கிரோமோ அது போல.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
டைட்டில் கார்டு - அதையொட்டிய விருதுகள் இதெல்லாம் கமல் பினாமயாய் செயல்படும் படங்களுக்கு கிடைக்காமல் போகிறது என்ற ஆதங்கம் எனக்குண்டு.
உதாரணம் - தசாவராதம் - கே.எஸ்.ரவிக்குமார்.
Yes Plum. BTW, I fell in love with that title Somakodidhi soppakodidhi (correcta) ever since I heard that. With SSR, it was more of a collaborative effort. Not sure why app clubs SSR with SB
Venki
Guna/Mahanadhi:SB != Dasa:KSR
SB is the classic benami. Can you compare Guna, Hey Ram, Mahanadhi, TM, Virumaandi, Pushpak with any of the KSR films? What does that tell you?
MMA stands out in the Kamal/KSR ouvre. The Kamal KSR ouvre itself is different from KSR's other works obviously
வருங்காலத்துக்கு ஒண்ணும் தெரியாது. அவங்க நம்புவாங்க சரி. அதுக்காக நீங்களும் 'அன்பே சிவம்' எடுத்தது சுந்தர்.சி 'னு நம்பியே தீருவேன்னு அடம் புடிச்சீங்கன்னா என்ன சொல்றது.
Agree-nga. I never rated SB a good director.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
Everyone agree KSR movies not up to the level of above. But a movie like Dasa, I think his directorial contributions must be appreciated by everyone.Quote:
SB is the classic benami. Can you compare Guna, Hey Ram, Mahanadhi, Virumaandi, Pushpak with any of the KSR films? What does that tell you?
SB was astend director in Hey Ram. uNmaiyila avar dhaan direct paNNaaraam
VenkiQuote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
I was not talking about the direction being good or bad. Adhu Vera vishayam. I'm saying Kamal-SB association was more of a benami equation.
As for your line above for KSR that's precisely my point. Dasa had KSR's presence. It had certain elements of a typical Kamal/KSR movie (hence MMA is not a typical KH-KSR movie) whereas there is no "typical" Kamal-SB movie because those were *Kamal* movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
ithaiyE thAn nAnum sonnEn Ana ennaiya ellam paiththiyamnu sollittAnga.
vidunga boss.. idhukkellam kovichukkalaamaQuote:
Originally Posted by tamizharasan
athAna. idhukkellAm kovichchA vAzhkka nadaththa mudiyumA.Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestRaj
I feel guilty for indirectly contributing to the bashing of these guys. mundhA nALE pEsAma irundhirukkaNum :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
At least iniyAvadhu thavirppadhu udambukku nalladhu (ennaichchonnEn) :-)
innumaayaa ittha pesittu irukkeenga... poyi pullakkuttiyala padikkaingayya..
app_engine, at 1st place, have u seen ALL of the Kamal+KSR, Kamal+SB and Kamal+SRR movies? And did you absorb the intricacies the writer weaved in those films?You were never in that dialog with us, where most of us were discussing stuff which are purely Kamal-Stamped! Good that you understood now :)
Eppadi IR+SPB pathi ungakitta naanga pEsa mudiyaatho athumaathiri ithuvum! Ulla vanga, aanaa ithu enga area!! EngalOda mingle aagura varaikum ungalukku uniform kudukkamaattom! :D
Dude Thamizha Tea & T-Shirt Shop in City Centre, Chennai!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO76jrcsGdg
My fav t-Shirt below! There r other t shirts with Annan and Raja references too :)
https://s1-04.twitpicproxy.com/photo...ng?key=1045585
the thevar magan script, with the principal characters Shakthi (Kamal) vs Mayan (Nasser) with an oblique reference to Indian mysticism - Shakthi as the supreme spiritual force that vanquishes the twin evils of Maaya and Kaala, both of which are responsible for the continuous cycle of birth and death, while Shakthi that can be realized through sadhana (meditation) and all kinds of yogas - leading to salvation (escape from pirappu and irappu cycle) - this outrageously brilliant subtext in the script involving Shakthi vs Maayan is central to the movies soul! all kudos to Kamal - intha aalu naathigamgara politically correct porvaikkulla olinjukinu, ellaathayam padicchu karachhi kudicchu, intha maadiri padathhula nice aa sollama solli escape aagividugiraar! Shakthi tells Panchavarnam (isnt that Revathys character name ?) father "aiyya, yenakku maayana madhiri soozhchiyellaam theriyadhu " - aye aye Kamalji!
With such a script, a seasoned director like Bharathan would have simply sleepwalked through!
This T- Shirt is nice. Sakala, Is there any link where we can order this?
CR, no idea dude! koogiL pannippaarunga!
irir, ur analogy, Maaya vs Sakthi is agreeable but religion/spirituality/aathigam nu pOneengannaa, agreed that Maayan does all kind of soozhchi but that force/sakthi doeas Sakthivel uses against? He is just trying to be honest and not only that, he keeps on expressing "Why this kolaveri yaa?!? C'mon you are my Annan" attitude which is actually friendly! Moreover, while Maayan does destructive soozhchi, Sakthi too does some soozhchi/planning to safegaurd his ppl. The very idea of secretly meeting Sellayaa, Father of Panjavarnam and convincing him to politically change his camp, along with agreeing for Panchavarnam to marry someone in kamal's camp, all this somewhat secretive till marriage.
Eppadi paarthaalum, Mythology link kudukka mudiyathu. May be Natural Forces nnu sollalaam. Like P_R found out the subtext of PanjaboothangaL in this film!
Nalla than irukki..... Konjam "Poovar Senni Mannan" from Thiruvaasakam thaakam irundha maathiri theriyuthu. (A little bit from "Un Kuthama, Yen Kuthama" as well)Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
mythology link not fossiple, agreed! it happens only if IR sings 'annanin uravai azhitthida thunindhaan, SAGUNIyai pol oru sadhi seidhaan' in MMKR's title song 'kadha kelu' - even that is a reference to a legendary story that ppl cud easily identify with! even references to Abhiramy/ bhakthi in Guna is something ppl could easily identify with a la 'yeppadi oru bhakthanukku abhiramiyin mel oru patru irukkumo, adhu madhiri, manidhargal purindhu kolla mudiyaadha punidhamaana yang lavers lovessu' (in Gounds style) - only coz IR is part of the team, all these references get an added extra spiritual dimension, perhaps!!
kamal aanmeegathhaiye vera madhiri paakkuraar - eppadi paarthaalum, nammala madhiri aatkala indha madhiri alasa vakkaraar!
Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
App - idhu enna? ennamO inga fanslAm sErndhu ungaLaiyO Sb-aiyO bash paNNinA mAdhiriyE pEsuRInga? :shock:
nAn enna sonNEn? oru roobaikku rendu pazham...sorry wront number, nAn enna sonnEn?
idhula naduvula irundha meat-ai eduthuttu ipdi quote paNdrInga:Quote:
App - nidhAnam. I understand your paasam for SB. But how does panner pushpangaL justify giving credit to SB for Gunaa? adhu endha ball park, idhu endha ball park? Creative Vision apdinnu PArthA what is SB's level? adhai edhai vechu edai pODaRadhu? Non Kamal movies of SB right? What does that tell us? Barring KKK, again with Kamal as producer and not inconceivable creative contribution to the project, what can you claim for the artistic vision of SB?
I remember - Chinna Mappillail, En Thamiz En MakkaL(NT rasigan nAnE solREnga, kOdi roobai koduthAlum pArthu tholaichudAdhInga), Chinna Vadhyar(idhu SingethamO?). sari Paneer Pushpangal - but what aesthetic in Paneer P makes you think SB's creative vision can give us Gunaa?
Singetham on the other hand I ahve a lot of respect for his creative vision. But still, his best works are with Kamal. Apple soos directornu solla mudiyAdhu.
paasam vERU, kadamai vERu - ungaLukku theriyAdhadhillai
naduvula evLO matter solli irukkEn? evLo pakkuvamA solli irukKEn? apdiyE loosela vittuttu ennamO nAn bash paNNinA mAdhiri quote paNNi :bye: sonnA enna arththam?Quote:
App - nidhAnam. I understand your paasam for SB.
paasam vERU, kadamai vERu - ungaLukku theriyAdhadhillai
ingE ellOrumE vinayamA dhAnE sonNAnga? Why react like fans koodi bash paNNA mAdhiri?
I dont underswtand your reaction at all!
maRubadiyum kEkkaREn. Your logic seems to be "Santhanabarathy did a decent Panneer Pushpanal so I can believe he did Gunaa also himself. "
eppadi? How do you take this leap of faith? Granted PP is a decent film. But adhOda sensibility enna? Gunaavoda sensibility enna? adhoda creative vision enna? Gunavoda creative vision enna?
ipdi motta thalaikkum muzhangalukkum mudichu pOttuttu nIngaLE oru strawman create paNNi adhai odaichuttu tata sonNA epdingaREn?
I just dont understand this.
Also, you are bracketing SSR with SB. idhuvum strawman. As I observer, SSR's creative inputs are far more visible - I am quoting this with logic in the sense that one of SSR's previous films where he is likely to have had more creative control had screeenplay contrivances seen in MMKR. I have seen him talking in Telugu about his movies and his creative vision and I believe there is sufficient material there to show his inputs.
Santhanabarathyin indha interviewvaiyo vERa endha interviewvaiyO alladhu padaippayO vechu Gunaa-vai avarOda Creative VisionA epdi solRInga?
"SommokkaDidhi sOkkokkadidhi."Quote:
fell in love with that title Somakodidhi soppakodidhi (correcta) ever since I heard that. With SSR, it was more of a collaborative effort. Not sure why app clubs SSR with SB
Interesting title considering the double role, which is unusually treated - a precursor to MMKR in that way.
It means "Soththu oruthanOdadhu, anubhavikkiravan innoruthan".
Plum,
Sorry if I sounded unclear :oops:
In my case, "not getting perturbed over trivial things is healthy"nnu mean paNNinEn (never meant others bashing me).
OTOH, my careless appreciation of that video - reNdE reNdu claps pOttEn, aththOda vidAmal discussion vERa paNNinEn, that's why guilt feeling. Please go to a few pages back that had led to the definite trashing of SB & Singeetham. (dummy, samosa, bakkoda etc)
pAvam ennAl avangaLukku edhukku adi kidaikkaNum?
BTW, SSR-SB club paNNinadhu nAn illainga...
Please ask SKV :-)
App - ok I dont want to answer for Sakal. Coming back to the point in discussion, ivLO veLakkamA "Why SB couldnt have visualised Gunaa or made Guna except as an Astend directornu" veLakkamA solli irukkOm. idhukku badhil "i want to be healthy. So bye" dhAnA?
Gunaa audio cassetlEyE avaru contribution theLivA theriyunga "Abirami ladiesku pudicha title", "adhu oru karuththu" ellAm weld-famous dhAnE?
Ayyo App! Samosa eating was literally what a friend told me (sets of the film). Adhe sentence la exaggeration-a irukkalaam-num sonnene. Seri, appadiye irundhaalum I don't understand your stance at all. Proxy (dummy bad word na vonaam) illa nu innum aanithanama nambareenga. Serious-a ve avar ungalukku vendiyavaro-nu doubt irukku
Clubbing done on basis that both did proxy, thats all. Mathapadi i never said SB is as talented as SSR. SB kkum talent irukku aanaa athu vera!
Plum,
The basic problem is I'm no connoisseur of movies but a typical "thuNukku follower" kind of guy. So, gunA appreciate paNRa aLavukku, adhukkum PP-kkum differentiate paNRa aLavukku- ellAm nAn vaLaralai :oops:
(seen guNA only once on DVD a few years back, felt ok but not overwhelmed, as in the case of my many other KH fav movies...'idhukku ivvaLavu AdharavA'-nnu appappO thONum. But that's my taste buds / dhimAg problem and nothing wrong with others. OTOH, I loved PP during college days, not seen recently).
The other problem with me is giving reasonable weightage to "given credits", unlike most KHFs here.
To me, whomsoever called director in the titles is director, whether he had total vision / total control or done only project manager kind of work. It doesn't matter to me. I really don't care further unless there is a recognized pizhai - intended or unintended. (e.g. vAli getting credited for 'vizhiyE kadhai ezhudhu').
For such designation to be taken away, at least someone else from the team should contest it, as in the case of OTR. Or claim "direction-mERpArvai" as in the case of k eeram. Otherwise, it's becoming muddy and anybody's guess.
Here, KH has no problem crediting others but KHFs don't accept it -right from rAja pArvai to mahA nadhi, ellAththukkum Avi Avi-nnu vehementA Avi pidikkiRanga - and it sounds strange to me.
As if KH had personally told them. As if they were sitting in all discussions. And, as if they know inside-out of SSR-SB-Bharathan. (Like NOV once claimed for the % of pAttukku mettu. He had gone to the extent of calling PA's remarks as kudi kAran pEchchu).
That's why I posted as 'questioning the title credits is equal to questioning KH'. adhukkellAm saththamE kANOm.
Legally, where do people use benAmi / proxy?
When one cannot be present. Here it does not apply. KH is very much present as hero / thiraikkathai etc in the titles. I read somewhere that for SNSM, they showed 'veRRu nARkAli' when showing director Bhimsingh's name in the title, because he passed away. That much is the validity of titles in TF. However, people call the director proxy for many KH movies :confused:
Illegally, people have proxies in certain situations - like powerful man's black money / soththu or his illegitimate child in need of initial etc. Those are definitely not applicable here.
There are other situations when a popular man's name is credited for a work which was actually done by a lesser mortal. For publicity / marketing etc. e.g. books written by star cricketers. evanO ezhudhi ivanga pErla pOttu vippAn. In that case, the actual author is typically unknown while the credited one is popular. That's also N/A here as KH is immensely more popular than the directors listed who are not much known to public.
So, what is the need for KH to designate them as directors? Unless they've done "something adequate" :roll:
Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
me confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
B(K),
Other than IR, no common link between me & SB :-)
oru vELai romba nAL natpukkAka, "ivarum periya ALA varattumE"nnu kadamai kaNNiyam kattuppAdu project kuduththirukkalAm. uruppadiyA onnum seyyAma ivarai director-nu , just for friendhship, Kamal pOduvArA? I doubt'nga.
appadiyE eduththukkittAlum, how can the same "doing a favor" clause apply to SSRao / Bharathan? :confused:
puriyalai?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamizharasan
I said :
They is not me :-)Quote:
what they consider as two of his best-ever films
dig
Plum,
எப்படி ஒரு உதிரிப்பூக்களுக்காக நீங்க அஞ்சுவுக்கு வாழ்நாள் ஆதரவு (not ridiculing for obesity etc) கொடுக்குறீங்களோ, அந்த மாதிரி ஒரு 'பூந்தளிராட / ஆனந்த ராகம் / கோடைகாலக்காற்றே' ராசா கிட்ட இருந்து வாங்கிக்கொடுத்ததுக்காக நானும் இந்த ரெண்டு பேருக்கும் (yes, including P Vasu :oops:) ஒரு சின்னக்கவசம் கொடுக்குறேன். Sheer gratitude!
end-dig
Just wondering
In Guna ..
Guna says ""inga malai than bhayam manushanga illa" after he and Abhirami escape to the caves after attacked.. edhukku solrar appadi ?
App - you clearly are not understanding the movies in question! People do - folm enthusiasts - read signatures of authors in movies, you know. Ninga solradhu ellaam gossip column levelukku dhaan irukku. What we are talking of his - I don't really want to use baradwaj rangan jargon but you are forcing me to - auteurship, authorial intent and signature.
Think about this - the bunch of movies we are discussing here are Raajapaarvai, Gunaa, mahanadkr, apporva etc. Why not en tamizh en makkal, aditya 369 or chinna maapla or even panneer pushpangal. What is common to the movies we are discussing - what sensibility is common? Kamal ofcourse. Gossipaga paakkamal, film appreciationA paarthaal ungalukke puriyum. You are not answering the core question - what is santhana barathy's signature as director? What is his sensibility as director? Where is it found in Gunaa, Mahanadhi? Enough has been written about Kamal's singature in these movies so the ball's in your court to prove that SB's signature and vision Is found in these movies.
App
The question is not whether SB is a director or not. It is not whether he is fit to be a director or not. The point we are making is he was a proxy for Guna and Mahanadhi. The fact that Guna/MN had SB's name as director in the title card, that Kamal acknowledged this (en post la andha points-ku neenga respond pannala), that Kamal gave him KKK, that he made Panneer Pushpangal are not relevant here.
How does SB being a director in that film have anything to do with this??
Next your allegation that Kamal fans are upset/insecure that SB will get the credit for Guna/MN is :lol: worthy
Enakku therinju, only you and NOV are religiously holding on to the official title card director belief. How many people do you think remember these films as SB films, as against Kamal films? How many people even remember SB?