COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY - PART2

[dochu]

And contrary to what dochu claims, it's not like things are squeaky clean in the West either. Nirvana copied the riff of Come As You Are from Killing Joke and settled it quietly out of court, AFAIK. Metallica copied the riff of Enter Sandman from some little known heavy metal band of the 80s. One of the most celebrated rock bands of all time, Led Zeppelin, are also the biggest plagiarists.

I never said west is clean. Thief is a thief, whether white skinned or whatever color. Nowadays, the trend with current MD's is that copy whatever you like, make crores and move on.

there is no connection between no.1 position and originality in India, public doesn't care.

Exactly, people (i am including all and not targeting anyone in particular) stealing doesn't have any remorse. And public is least bothered about originality, as long as they have good time twisting their hips dancing and having hell of a fun. There is no moral values passed on. There is no accountability for any illegal actions. That is why these behaviors are still proliferating.

An example: GVP


similar to



Here is a news article, GVP slandering audio firms for unethical behavior.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/fri...cle4921818.ece

In what way slandering audio companies is justified? There is no accountability for any action.

this reminds me
"let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_a...en_in_adultery

[JamesDap]

dochu: I was referring to this statement of yours: "I am sure Sony Music India wouldn't market Britney or somebody's song if sounds similar to other in US or other countries. They will try to avoid lawsuits."

That is not necessarily the case, is what I wanted to point out. In fact, or so the story goes, when Killing Joke contacted the producers of Nirvana threatening a lawsuit, they with typical haughty American ignorance, said, "boo yeah, never heard of ya" and dismissed them. It was the band themselves that later sought to mollify Killing Joke and settled the issue. Likewise, Led Zeppelin is still marketed as one of the legends of rock and their reunion concert commanded attention and, erm, ticket prices that even the biggest of the new bands cannot match, so nevermind what all they copied. Might is right applies at the end of the day.

[ajaybaskar]

Bassline of that song has resemblance to Oorvasi but it has been cleverly improvised and the tune is completely different. How can it be called as plagiarism, I don't understand. I still believe if there is one Tamil composer who is nearest to being original, its ARR.

On the 'Numero Uno' thing, being copycats can help you to the top for a brief period of time but when people find out the source, they will ridicule you. Deva,Anu Malik,HJ are the best examples. To be at the top for a long long time, you have to be original and there is no second option.

[JamesDap]

Oh, favourite na vandachu na ellarukkum kanna mudikardhudha easy-a? The bassline is ditto same, the only thing he changed is the rhythmic pattern but the notes are the same. That is not enough to not consider it plagiarised.

And rest assured it is not the only instance. Roja roja is also copied, again, only the rhythmic pattern has been changed but notewise the melody is same except for the very last phrase in the pallavi.



And please, Pritam, in spite of newspaper articles ridiculing his copycat techniques, continues to be very successful commercially, Barfi songs last year were a big hit and even praised as 'superb' by critics. Maybe if they wait a couple of years, we will get to know the source. :P Nobody gives a damn about originality. Music directors lose business when they are unable to keep up with trends and that is the reason Anu or Deva began to fade away.

[JamesDap]

R D Burman was king of Bollywood from mid 60s (Teesri Manzil, 1966) to mid 80s (Sagar, 1985) and made a (posthumous) comeback with 1942 A Love Story. That's two decades, give or take a few months. Don't tell me he never copied. Of course he did!






Now I am not saying he was talentless. Certainly he was one of the most influential MDs in Hindi music, but the point is he has indulged in copying. People simply have a soft corner for talented MDs like RDB or SJ or IR or ARR and would like to live in denial but that does not mean, sadly, that they did not copy. I would hesitate to name one MD based only on youtube or itwofs that they have not copied EVER. It is more likely that somebody hasn't cottoned on to the source yet.

[NOV]

People simply have a soft corner for talented MDs like RDB or SJ or IR or ARR and would like to live in denial but that does not mean, sadly, that they did not copy.

[venkkiram]

பொதுவாகவே இந்தத் திரியினை புறக்கணிக்கும் பழக்கம் உண்டு. என்னடா இங்கே க்ரிம்சன்கிங்கே வந்துட்டார்னு எட்டிப் பார்த்த்தால் அவரும் காபி, டீ என அளந்து கொண்டு இருக்கிறார். இமிடேஷன் மற்றும் உள்வாங்குதல் பற்றி ராஜா தனது கருத்துக்களை ரொம்பத் தெளிவாகவே சில இடங்களில் சொல்லியிருக்கிறார். இதற்கு ரஹ்மான், எம்.எஸ்.வி போன்றவர்கள் என்னென்ன நிலைப்பாடுகள் வைத்திருக்கிறார்கள் என்பதை அவர்கள் வாய்வழியாகவே சொல்லிக் கேள்விப்பட்டால் ஒழிய இதுபோன்ற சந்தேகத்திற்குரிய தளங்களில் பேச எதுவாகவும், புரிந்துகொள்ளவும் உதவியாக இருக்கும்.

Conversation between Poet Muthulingam and Raja:



Conversation between SPB and Raja:

[dochu]

Might is right applies at the end of the day.

Exactly!. I second that.

To me, especially in tamil film industry, there don't seem to be any individual no1. It seems to be shared by many HJ, YSR, GVP etc. For no1, shouldn't one dominate in the number of movies / year too?

[JamesDap]

venkirram: I have watched both videos before and I am not sure how exactly they address plagiarism. I think there is a difference between inspiration like Inji Idu-Yeh Dil Deewana and a blatant copy like Akkarai Cheemai from Kites. There are many reasons for plagiarism happening even in the case of a talented MD. It may simply happen unintentionally, the music director retrieving a tune from his memory bank without realising it is actually an old song that he had heard at some point of time. After all, all compositions originate from permutations of the same set of notes. Multiply that over hundreds of thousands of compositions; is it even realistically possible for a composer to remember all compositions in the history of mankind to avoid unintentional plagiarism?

Or he may like the ideas used in the song so much that he may be tempted to use it and hope to get away with it.

Lastly, and this happens often in India, the director may impose his insecurities on the music director. Why do Indians go and watch films copied from Hollywood when said Hollywood films are released here, at least the big cities anyway? The director begins by copying a Hollywood film because that is a surer formula for success from his point of view than taking a 'risk' with an original script. Likewise, he believes a song has a greater chance of being a hit if it is lifted from a hit tune from abroad or old films and he will impose that decision on the music director. I remember in the NEPV audio launch, Selvamani asked for a tune like Mehbooba Mehbooba from Ilayaraja (he was probably not aware that Mehbooba is also a copy :P) and Ilayaraja instead gave him Aatama Therotama, using the idea of a song with a tribal flavour. Maybe another music director wouldn't have bothered and simply ripped off Mehbooba.

[venkkiram]

venkirram: I have watched both videos before and I am not sure how exactly they address plagiarism. I think there is a difference between inspiration like Inji Idu-Yeh Dil Deewana and a blatant copy like Akkarai Cheemai from Kites. There are many reasons for plagiarism happening even in the case of a talented MD. It may simply happen unintentionally, the music director retrieving a tune from his memory bank without realising it is actually an old song that he had heard at some point of time. After all, all compositions originate from permutations of the same set of notes. Multiply that over hundreds of thousands of compositions; is it even realistically possible for a composer to remember all compositions in the history of mankind to avoid unintentional plagiarism?

Or he may like the ideas used in the song so much that he may be tempted to use it and hope to get away with it.

Lastly, and this happens often in India, the director may impose his insecurities on the music director. Why do Indians go and watch films copied from Hollywood when said Hollywood films are released here, at least the big cities anyway? The director begins by copying a Hollywood film because that is a surer formula for success from his point of view than taking a 'risk' with an original script. Likewise, he believes a song has a greater chance of being a hit if it is lifted from a hit tune from abroad or old films and he will impose that decision on the music director. I remember in the NEPV audio launch, Selvamani asked for a tune like Mehbooba Mehbooba from Ilayaraja (he was probably not aware that Mehbooba is also a copy :P) and Ilayaraja instead gave him Aatama Therotama, using the idea of a song with a tribal flavour. Maybe another music director wouldn't have bothered and simply ripped off Mehbooba.

I don't conclude that as a a blatant copy. This is what my guess would have happened at Raja's mind. "Wow! There is a good melody there. Let me try my version of it by using the first 2 lines and give a different color. Let me set my own rhythm and see how it is". These are the lessons to any music composers on how well we can catch a branch and climb up on our sky with our stamp/signature. "



Same approach from IR for "இந்தப் பூவிலும் வாசம் உண்டு". I think his vision/approach is clear. Let us consider ""ஆயிரம் தாமரை மொட்டுக்களே". The pallavi portion is from a folk tune but IR used the same tempo and extended with beautiful BGM and Saranam portions.

எப்படி ஒரு மந்திரவாதி எதையெதையெல்லாம் தொட்டு தனது விருப்பப்படியே பலவித உருவங்களை தோற்றுவித்து சென்று கொண்டிருப்பதைப் போலவே இசை உருவாக்கமும். இசையில் பாண்டித்தியமும், மந்திரத் தன்னும் சரி சமமாய் அமையப் பெற்றிருக்கும் ஒருவராக எம்.எஸ்.வியை, ராஜாவைப் பார்க்கிறேன்.