Suththa thamizhachi thaamarai

[rajasaranam]

hey thanks RS.......but can i extend this to compare for example - Modi's fascism (gujarat carnage) and congress's fascism (anti-sikh riots) and conclude the less harmful there? i just wanted to know if we can extend this idea to a larger picture, bcos i found this phrase interesting......

Why do you want to compare two unrelated issues and arrive at a conclusions? It will be silly If Iam going to say 'British Fascism was better in comparison to German Fascism So I would like to be under British rule' :P

[MADDY]

Why do you want to compare two unrelated issues and arrive at a conclusions? It will be silly If Iam going to say 'British Fascism was better in comparison to German Fascism So I would like to be under British rule' :P

oh ok, u r talking abt comparing "related" events - gawt it

[rocketboy]

Upto my knowledge there are three "kinds" of tamil speaking people:

1. Tamils from north and east, who settled around 3rd to 4th century AD

2. Muslim Tamils mostly from east and also from colombo and Ratna pura

3. Tamils from south india who were taken to Srilanka during the 18th century by British to work in the Tea Estates. (Minister Thondamaan is aone of them)

Not entirely correct. Srilankan Muslim are not Tamils. They are descendants of Arab traders who came to the island. Tamil became their primary spoken language over a period of time.

[P_R]

Do you mean to compare cluster bombing etc. which was meant to get rid of a large chunk of a *race* to what prabhakaran's been trying to achieve?

Ghastly images be warned
This is one sample example of an ethnically targetted attack.

And IIRC he himself explained his intentions in that famous sun TV interview.

Haven't seen the interview. But if you are under some impression that the tigers hit only the SL Army targets and not civilians (i.e. if that was his argument) LTTE has plenty of attacks on civilian targets in their resume.
Most notably the central bank was bombed in 1996. In its own scale and range that would be SL's own 9/11.

Here is a wiki page of major attacks attributed to the LTTE

None of this justify the kind of attacks that the GoSL has been doing to win this war. But just to be borne on mind that just because the LTTE lost the war doesn't erase the fact that they were one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in the world. Of late there is an increased tendency to view them as an organization that only use arms to defend itself.That is a big fat lie.

What RS was saying is that the people only had the extremely limited choice between on oppressive fascist regieme and another. So it necessary to see it from that perspective before passing any judgement from our completely external (and comfortable) points of view.

[joe]

PR,
விடுதலைப்புலிகளின் இரண்டு தவறுகள் அரசியல் ரீதியாக அவர்களை படூகுழியில் தள்ளியது மறுக்க முடியாத உண்மை.

1. சந்தேகத்தின் பேரில் முஸ்லீம்களை யாழ்ப்பாணத்தை விட்டு வெளியேற சொன்னது .அதனால் ஏற்பட்ட விரிசல் மற்றும் காத்தான் குடி படுகொலை.

2.ராஜீவ் கொலையின் மூலம் அதுவரை அளப்பரிய ஆதரவு கொடுத்துக்கொண்டிருந்த தமிழக மக்களை மிகவும் சங்கடத்துக்குரிய கையறு நிலைக்கு தள்ளியது.

[Nerd]

PR,
I am unable to type long messages from work here. What I meant was Prabhakaran's intentions when he formed the LTTE was to fight for rights of the Tamils, not to kill Sinhalese. Over the past 30 years or so he has killed 1000s of civilians, no denying that. They started out attacking govt. officials only. And no denying the fact that the movement had evolved to a civil war.

OTOH, GoSL's intention was also to wipe out thamizhs from that area. I was stressing on the intentions behind the formation of LTTE. Sorry for sounding obscure in my previous posts and this is my reading on this issue, I may be completely wrong too.

[joe]

PR,
ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கத்தை நடத்தும் போது நம்பகத்தன்மையின்மை மிகப்பெரிய அச்சுறுத்தல் ..25 ஆண்டுகளாக அசைக்க முடியாமல் இருந்த புலிகள் இயக்கம் இப்போது குறுகிய காலத்தில் சட சடவென சரிந்ததற்கு காரணம் கருணா -வின் துரோகம் . இது நடவாமல் இருப்பதற்கு தயவுதாட்சணியமற்ற சந்தேகத்திற்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விசுவாசம் சிறிது குலைந்தாலும் அதற்காக சில நடவடிக்கைகளை எடுக்கவில்லையென்றால் புலிகள் இயக்கம் எப்போதோ அழிந்திருக்கும் . போராட்டத்தின் நோக்கத்தை ஒருமுகப்படுத்துவதை குலைபதற்கு அரசாங்கங்கள் தூண்டி விடும் பிளவு பட்ட அமைப்புகளுக்குள் மோதலும் ,அதில் மற்றவரை அடக்கி புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனிப்பெரும் இயக்கமாக உருப்பெற்றதும் இப்படித் தான் . இவற்றை யாரும் நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது என்றாலும் ,அவர்களின் இருப்புக்கும் தொடர்ந்து இலக்கை நோக்கி இயங்க்குவதற்கும் இதைத் தவிர வேறு வழியில்லை என்பதே உண்மை.

[rocketboy]

Do you mean to compare cluster bombing etc. which was meant to get rid of a large chunk of a *race* to what prabhakaran's been trying to achieve?

Ghastly images be warned
This is one sample example of an ethnically targetted attack.

And IIRC he himself explained his intentions in that famous sun TV interview.

Haven't seen the interview. But if you are under some impression that the tigers hit only the SL Army targets and not civilians (i.e. if that was his argument) LTTE has plenty of attacks on civilian targets in their resume.
Most notably the central bank was bombed in 1996. In its own scale and range that would be SL's own 9/11.

Here is a wiki page of major attacks attributed to the LTTE

None of this justify the kind of attacks that the GoSL has been doing to win this war. But just to be borne on mind that just because the LTTE lost the war doesn't erase the fact that they were one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in the world. Of late there is an increased tendency to view them as an organization that only use arms to defend itself.That is a big fat lie.

What RS was saying is that the people only had the extremely limited choice between on oppressive fascist regieme and another. So it necessary to see it from that perspective before passing any judgement from our completely external (and comfortable) points of view.

Exactly, our sympathy should be with the people who have perished in the war, people who have been made refugees in their own land and not with LTTE. Remember the Rajiv gandhi assassination. Did Rajiv Gandhi alone die in the blast? How about the innocent by-standers. What harm did they do to the LTTE or the Eelam Tamils? Oru unmaiyana Tamizhan Srilankan tamizharkalukakka vethanai paduvan, avanga nalla irukkanum nenaipaan. Avvalave. LTTE committed two major blunders. Rajiv gandhi assassination and antagonizing the Srilankan Muslims, thereby incurring their wrath.

[rajasaranam]

PR,
ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கத்தை நடத்தும் போது நம்பகத்தன்மையின்மை மிகப்பெரிய அச்சுறுத்தல் ..25 ஆண்டுகளாக அசைக்க முடியாமல் இருந்த புலிகள் இயக்கம் இப்போது குறுகிய காலத்தில் சட சடவென சரிந்ததற்கு காரணம் கருணா -வின் துரோகம் . இது நடவாமல் இருப்பதற்கு தயவுதாட்சணியமற்ற சந்தேகத்திற்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விசுவாசம் சிறிது குலைந்தாலும் அதற்காக சில நடவடிக்கைகளை எடுக்கவில்லையென்றால் புலிகள் இயக்கம் எப்போதோ அழிந்திருக்கும் . போராட்டத்தின் நோக்கத்தை ஒருமுகப்படுத்துவதை குலைபதற்கு அரசாங்கங்கள் தூண்டி விடும் பிளவு பட்ட அமைப்புகளுக்குள் மோதலும் ,அதில் மற்றவரை அடக்கி புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனிப்பெரும் இயக்கமாக உருப்பெற்றதும் இப்படித் தான் . இவற்றை யாரும் நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது என்றாலும் ,அவர்களின் இருப்புக்கும் தொடர்ந்து இலக்கை நோக்கி இயங்க்குவதற்கும் இதைத் தவிர வேறு வழியில்லை என்பதே உண்மை.

Agreed. But this has led to LTTE's defeat too and have left Eelam people in a confused state now. There was no serious 'political' wing for LTTE apart from in papers which will take the their agenda to the world and have a close relationship with people. They believed blindly in their military power and armed struggle. They had even not allowed the raise of second rung leaders to take forward the 'cause' in case of any adversaries. Going towards the goal blindfolded has ofcourse won some wars in the history but today it has to be done in a different manner is what this defeats learning is.

[P_R]

What I meant was Prabhakaran's intentions when he formed the LTTE was to fight for rights of the Tamils, not to kill Sinhalese.

The initial intentions bit dust easily. Among the list of attcks you can see the attacks targeted at Muslims and Sinhalese civilians. Women and children. Mindless violent atrocities targeted at people of opposite ethnic groups. So in no time there seemed to be no functional difference in the manifestations of the intentions.

OTOH, GoSL's intention was also to wipe out thamizhs from that area.

LTTE too is guilty of ethnic cleansing. The violence did not incidentally kill civilians. There were targeted attacks on ethnic groups too.

I was stressing on the intentions behind the formation of LTTE.

Agreed. But this is of marginal relevance.