Raja's Gems - the latest one you heard...Part 3

[vithagan]

Singara mane poondhene - Thaimozhi

Unknown gem from Raja !

[app_engine]

'Oh pApA lAlee' on loop in the car for the last two days (idhaiyaththai thirudAthE)!

What a sweet orchestration and fantastic melody, the first interlude just pizhinjifies the heart / nAdi narambellAm suNdi izhukkum strings!

Possibly the best song for Mano but he does dhrishtippottu on a number of spots Also, makes one feel why can't he sing with the intended feel for any song.

Possibly IR/MR decided that for that actor - with a single emotion of 'being in pain even when laughing' - this voice is good enough I've seen only one movie of Amala's hubby - this one - and IMO he is the Telugu equivalent of oru thalai rAgam Shankar. Always sad, troubled, in-pain kind of face. Like Mano, always flat feeling - let it be love, thAlAttu, sogam, hAsyam, veeram whatever.

(Some say Mano did great post-IR, why not, post-IR which composer bothers about giving "emotional" songs to Mano? What emotions needed to be showcased in, say, veerapANdi kOttaiyilE? or mukkAbullA? or azhagiya lailA? Obviously, why won't Mano sound great there!)

[V_S]

Hilarious post App. I listened to Mano's version only during my college and couple of later years. First time I watched the movie was in Madurai during summer holidays with my college friends. Later on once I discovered SPB's version I stopped listening to Mano's version, not just Mano's version was bad, it's SPB's version was far ahead.

Plum and Param should be more happy on your post.

But what a song, right from one second prelude (the shortest and best till date) till the end, this song will leave you speechless, even after the song has stopped long before. There will be pure silence within yourself for long long time.

[raagas]

'Oh pApA lAlee' on loop in the car for the last two days (idhaiyaththai thirudAthE)!

Possibly the best song for Mano but he does dhrishtippottu on a number of spots Also, makes one feel why can't he sing with the intended feel for any song.

Possibly IR/MR decided that for that actor

On the contrary, the first time i heard it, I thought it is probably Mano's worst ever rendition under IR's baton. Infact, you said it yourself - the feel aspect is gone somehow. And the weight given to the words is too heavy, while SPB in telugu, gave a more gentle rendition. And gentle rendition was what the song required too. And SPB was just perfect for/in it.

Secondly, I think (and I heard many times) that IR is not (least) involved in the dubbed versions. And in most cases, the decisions for dubbed films are governed by "dates and rates of singers", and not by "which singer is apt for this composition?". I think IR decides about the aptness of a singer, only in the original version. For the dubbed versions, he is hardly involved. Infact, for many Tamil-to-telugu dubbed versions, he was not present in recording (this is what I heard from people who followed his 80s Telugu career diligently) and his assistants just did the job (track singing was in vogue anyway).

There are 100s of examples where the singers were switched from KJY to SPB (& viceversa), SPB to Mano (& viceversa), Chitra to Janaki/Susheela (& viceversa) - given that language barrier is not an issue for any of these singers. It is more of who could the producer afford and which singer was available, to finish the dubbing that day.

[groucho070]

As Hub Mano Fan Club president and treasurer, I agree that entire Idhayattai Thirudathe album features lazy efforts from Mano. Before you get excited Plum, I didn't post this in Mano's thread.

[Plum]

App, Raagas -
Truth needs to be told.
Again and Again.

I think raagas' point on dubbing movies sure does make sense.
Watch out for Teacher Amma(:hattip: appengine) singing "oru poongavanam" like she were singing a blind school prayer in Gharshana(Agni nakshatram). Teacher amma got a lot of Telugu dubbing songs of hit tamil movies in the 80s - which is perplexing considering she literally accused IR of orangattifying her in the 80s.

Raagas' explanation fills in this conundrum - in that, IR might not have been involved in her selection for the telugu version. If he didnt trust her for the tamil version, why would he give the telugu version? Also, the fact that she was less busier and cheaper in the 80s compareed to Janaki, Chitra and Suseela fits in with Raagas' theory.

[Devaraagam]

App, 100% agree with u on mano and idhayathai thirudathey as its my feeling too. actually, SPB was not well during that period so mano got the bumper prize

[app_engine]

It is more of who could the producer afford and which singer was available, to finish the dubbing that day.

haiyA!

I had been stating this as a theory (PMP thingy) and nice to see that guess getting partly ratified

Looks like IR was not even in the picture on the dubbing cases

[irir123]

Hilarious post App. I listened to Mano's version only during my college and couple of later years. First time I watched the movie was in Madurai during summer holidays with my college friends. Later on once I discovered SPB's version I stopped listening to Mano's version, not just Mano's version was bad, it's SPB's version was far ahead.

Plum and Param should be more happy on your post.

But what a song, right from one second prelude (the shortest and best till date) till the end, this song will leave you speechless, even after the song has stopped long before. There will be pure silence within yourself for long long time.

IT had several unintentionally funny elements associated with it

1. Mano's singing was totally clinically executed cold-blooded murder of some of the most original tunes of all times! in tamil, 'o paapa laali' became 'o BAABA laali' (as in 'Baa baa black sheep have u any wool?')!, an energetic 'jagada jagada' became a dull, 'vidiya vidiya' perhaps foreboding the hero's abt-to-be-revealed-sickness!, a sincere soulful 'o priya priya' in telugu by SPB, became a hopeless, desperate, almost self-pitying rendition by Mano in tamil! a self-introspective 'aamani paadave' by SPB became a hopeless 'kaaviyam paadavaa thendraley' tat wud have made any self-respecting breeze cry out 'cudnt they have picked up a better singer to invite me to sing ?'

2.Nagarjuna's perfect non-acting, just completely shoved over by IR's genius and brilliance in every single frame - IR must have been laughing inside and delighted at this oppurtunity to run riot with a mesmerising western classical score to complement PC Sriram's brilliantly executed visuals! this movie completed 100 days in tamil ONLY for IR's music, since Nagarjuna was an absolute stranger in TN!
There were some unintentionally scary scenes when the camera pans in to show his face in such closeup, one could see hairs from his moustache sticking out pefectly horizontally like miniature barbs!

3.the unintentionally ironically hilarious comedy track featuring disco shanthi ! it was hilarious primarily for (i) the mundance stupidity and (ii) once again showcasing Mani Ratnam's pathetic sense of humor, or lack of it, following the distasteful 'comedy' track in Agni natchathiram featuring VKR, Janakaraj n Disco Shanthi - however, despite all of this, IR gave us two memorable themes for these sequences!

[raagas]

Irir123,

Geetanjali had about 55 mins of background score, probably the longest duration in Maniratnam's films. Apparently, Mani Ratnam treated Ilaiyaraaja as this film's hero, right from the time he started filming it, because i remember reading about Maniratnam's penchant for less-dialogue shots in that film. Some of the posters too, did not have faces of actors, but only dark silhouettes and only Ilaiyaraaja's name, along with Maniratnam's name, on the posters.
That hopeless comedy track was missing in many DVDs/Video Casettes/VCDs. Apparently, that track was shot in the last minute, to please the distributors and once the film began ringing cash registers, that whole track was edited out. I remembering seeing the edited out version of the film.