Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

My take on that statement is that the brass section got to play some good stuff but not for long time. Maybe it is the typical Raja orchestration where the sax/trumpet/trombone enter during the interlude, play for half a cycle and leave. Again play briefly. I guess that is what he meant by 'playing less notes'.

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

R D Burman's orchestration and Salil Da's orchestration was way ahead of the orchestration of Tamil and Telugu film songs during the early 70s. Honestly there was no match. The whole scenario changed after Raja came and the Tamil film music orchestration became more complicated than the orchestration in Hindi films. Gradually Raja took film orchestrations to astonishing levels, the heights which even today only Raja is able to reach.

[senthilv.com]

senthil,

You say, "I was not interested in tackling your last point". That about seals the debate. As I said, I will be more than happy to be proved wrong but if no one comes forward to give exact examples there is no sense in continuing the debate.

---

I'm not interested in proving you wrong. No interest what so ever. I'm here to share, discuss and learn couple of things.

One cannot prove someone's opinion wrong and your opinion cannot become fact. That is my only point. I just asked how you can state MSV's musical capability waned. you made some more sweeping statements. If you gave specific points. I can discuss.

btw, I did tackle you point and showed why your point is irrelevant. Until you show how it is relevant. I don't know how to proceed. Pls show me what is yardstick for measuring musical capability? I'm not shying away from discussion as long as it is healthy.

V_S Sir,

Naan chinna paiyan sir and got no shoulder to lean on. Pure lonely bachelor. Can't handle such attack pls go a bit easy on me

And I'm cool with with your notes/opinions as long you don't say it is a fact Salute.

[V_S]

Thanks Suresh ji.

Sorry senthilv if my post hurt you. I didn't mean it. Even though it is my opinion and would not thrust you accept it, I still believe I did objective reasoning behind it and the results are proving it comfortably.

[senthilv.com]

Thanks Suresh ji.

Sorry senthilv if my post hurt you. I didn't mean it. Even though it is my opinion and would not thrust you accept it, I still believe I did objective reasoning behind it and the results are proving it comfortably.

oh no V_S. Not at all. ur post actually made me laugh at couple of instance so I replied with a light-hearted tone. I'm a total Raja fan. Everything I know about music, including a bit i'm scratching with MSV's music is through that giant. I'm interested in drama in music that is only insight I can bring to the discussion. I know nothing about Raga or Tala.

Didn't mean to ignore your notes. I was looking up something on Youtube to post for you. Will post may be soon. Cheers.

[Sureshs65]

senthil,

One last time

I had earlier quoted 4 different movies and four different directors approaching Raja for music. This is not an opinion. It is a fact. All I wanted was to know if such a thing happened with MSV. Ofcourse I didn't ask you this but asked genesis, who didn't reply to that point.

Now staying with facts. Let us take the two recent movies of Raja. 'SreeRamaRajyam' and 'SnehaVeedu' and also take up movies like 'PazhassiRaja' and 'Paa'. All of these created a stir in the music circles and these four were decently successful commercially as well. Again, not my opinion. I hope this will be taken as a fact. All I want you to do is to take the period of 1984 to 1986 and show me 4 such movies of MSV, which were critically acclaimed, talked about and were decently successful. I am not showing you that because I cannot think of 4 such MSV's movies during that period which are of this standard or even of the standard which MSV had in the 70s. If you can think of such movies, kindly let me know. I will surely listen to them and change my opinion if I find the music to be outstanding. I think is as objective as it can be?

[Gregorysab]

And everyday I am eagerly coming to this page, with a childlike enthusiasm, to see if there are any updates about NEPV... and...

[KV]

suresh, vs, irir, senthil, app, jai, kiru.... ooru perusunga ellaam sEndhu enna oru alasal! . sunny v/s windies pace attack paatha oru feeling! keep it going! spectators like me are having a feast!

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

[Gregorysab]

suresh, vs, irir, senthil, app, jai, kiru.... ooru perusunga ellaam sEndhu enna oru alasal! . sunny v/s windies pace attack paatha oru feeling! keep it going! spectators like me are having a feast!

(aside: thinking aloud, we're all so obsessed with the idea of 'comparison', aren't we? msv/ir, kvm/msv, ir/ar, zep/floyd, sunny/vishy, sach/lara, pele/mar, mgr/sivaji, kamal/rajini... ippidi pOra edam ellaam panchayathu pannidrOm. At some plane, aren't these scuffles indicators of the arrogance within each of us? yet, we will not refrain from pointing fingers at others asking them to mend their personalities. Like IR says, i think fate said to us 'nee ingye kadaa' and we merrily carry on celebrating our lowly lives!)

Annaaa!!! My thoughts exactly, looking at many threads/forums not just here but on any social media platform where some music is dis'cuss'ed you spoke my mind totally!

[senthilv.com]

Suresh,

Will respond to you shortly.

V_S,

Raja himself is not taking credit for bringing/popularizing folk music in TN and requesting not to make such claims. He puts interviewer in spot my downplaying his achievement He says others have done it before and he is just continuing that... I think he is right. The time period was ripe to explore the music Raja was interested in.



I'd say the same thing about WCM. TFM has been utilizing WCM since 40's but Raja just took it to another level with full scale adoption and fresh approach. We all know he also utilized baroque music more than any other composer in India. I think it is this unique baroque taste that we crave for.

I love belonging to Raja community/fans and having discussions, so I don't want to give a wrong impression that I'm playing other musician up or playing him down. Raja is my favorite composer but I like MSV's music all the way till the end. The same way Raja adores his music. MSV served us great music for 30 years from 1950's to 80's. Just to put him in context, he was in in his 34th year in the industry by 1986. He is a treasure and I just want us as Raja fan to treat him very carefully. Just be bit more sensitive may be? Of course this is just my sentiment.

Personally, I can't see how MSV music can go down suddenly in just 2 years or Raja for that matter in 3 years during that 92-95 period u mentioned. MSV may not make trendy music but intrinsically his music is still good and could still serve us great music. Anyway, I will think a bit about MSV 80's music more and post later

I'm just sharing some of my personal fav's of MSV's work in context of our discussion. Each song is tailored to the character and situation. MSV alone would probably never come-up this kinda of song. It is not home cooked song by thinking about music and innovation. Created by the team effort.

Also, totally no intention to discuss which/who is better, Just to show pure appreciation for the master. Sometimes it is good to go back and refresh.


Yaar Antha Nilavu - Santhi
Amazing guitar song by MSV. Electric guitar I believe and dreamy orchestration. It is still fresh and sounds so contemporary.




Avalukku ena Alagiya Mugam.
IMO, this song has everything in it. Melody, orchestration, chord progression, inventive arrangement, variety in each Saranam and the way saranam goes away and connects back with the main pallavi. Everything is unpredictable in this song and so fun too!



Pattathu Raaniyin in Sivatha Mann. IMO, this is an amazing piece of cinema. Great direction, music, dance, lyrics, acting, camerawork(possibly every possible camera technique is used in this song), production design, art direction and on top, great storytelling. I just adore the way they use whip sound through out the song to heighten the tension and climax the song.




Enge Nimmathi -- Unparalleled. Equal to any orchestration anywhere in the world. I believe they used 100+ musicians for the first time? Every instrument has clear place and direction. They used them so beautifully to tell the story. My favorite is use of wind sound is various ways in various instruments.




Athan Ennathan -- Waltz type use is so soothing. P.Susheela's conversation with the strings is so beautiful. Eats my heart every time I listen to it.



Ammamma Keladi Thozhi- Such a effective orchestration done in simple way. Love the BGM at the beginning.



Vaa Nila, Nila alla. -- Doesn't need any introduction. This after being in the industry for 25 years.