Ilaiyaraaja's Athiradi Albums Version 2009 [Archive] - Page 4

kiru

14th October 2009, 12:05 PM

Here is a imaginary use of the aadhi usha song in the 'Battle Preparation' chapter of the movie, if I were the director
(probably a novice at that).
The prelude is pazhassi raja deliberating with his lieutenants on the battle strategy..the prelude reaches its climax with
raaja walking majestically down to address his troops from the castle or mountain top..song cut just before the bell sound ..
raaja delivers his inspirational speech..troops shout back in support/approval..the sound of which is slowly faded and
aadhi usha starts...
Interlude serves as BGM of the arms and ammunition raaja has accumulated which are now being prepped for action..
charanam is long shot of the british garrison slowly focussing in on the devious faces of the british commanders..
Slowly pan back to the natural settings in which the raaja's troops are settled in ..enjoying the food..spending time with
their women etc..this coincides with the female chorus..
As the second interlude starts Now the shot is that of the soldiers/men preparing to leave their homes/(crying)wife/children..
As the maracass start it is a long shot of the troops in move..the charanam 2 is fast action close ups of the raaja/sarath
in their horses or chariots shouting instructions to their troops ..as the charanam/song comes to an end
it is a visual of the mass of troops aligned in formation ..song cut before the aadhi usha line..
raaja shouts the attack orders to the troops.. fast action horses/chariots ....aadi usha starts again..

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 01:42 PM

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 01:43 PM

raagas,

I am also not sure about the raga of 'Adi uShas' song. Even about the 'kunnathe' song I am a bit confused. The veena bit in the second interlude sounds like Abheri ragam. Is it only me who is hearing it? Because I found a couple of others (Bala, SVN) mentioning the song as Suddha Saveri.

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 01:45 PM

Oops. I meant Suddha Dhanyasi and not Suddha Saveri !!!

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 01:45 PM

Thanks Usha for the encouragement.

Sanjeevi

14th October 2009, 02:01 PM

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 02:55 PM

Sanjeevi,

'Adi' seems to be of Sanskrit origin. 'Adi - antham' is a commonly used phrase in Sanskrit.

tvsankar

14th October 2009, 03:45 PM

adhi ushath

mun vidi kalai pozhudhu - in sanskrit ...

Naan indha ushath kalathil porandhaenam.
(ennoda birth time 3.30 a.m.)

adhanala , en appa enaku - asaiya
Usha nu per vecharam.

enaku appa ilai. En peyar karanathai
en amma epavum - en appavin nyabagamaga
sollindae iruapnga..

adhanala - enaku - Ushath ku matum
artham theriyum.
hehhehe....

app_engine

14th October 2009, 07:08 PM

Digression
Usha chEchi, there're tons of references to "ushus" in general in Kerala ; apart from the regular reference in songs and other verses, names of all kinds use this word - possibly because of the optimistic / uprising tone. We used to have at least 2 or more Usha chEchchees in every dept I worked in :-)

Ofcourse, most of us are familiar with P T Usha :-)
End-digression

After hearing in my car, I reverse my stand on the top-pick :oops: 'Adhi ushus sandhya' is many times superior to the typical malayALam movie number kunnaththE (KSC does the magic and the background is very superior to average malayALam songs and current IR numbers in Thamizh, but still the song sounds somewhat "typical").

What an invigorating orchestration! Despite his struggle, KJY delivers an output vastly superior to anyone in the biz today!

tvsankar

14th October 2009, 07:23 PM

app,
hehehehe...

ennoda per ku reason solinden.
en appa vechadhu. enaku spl.
(En appavoda poorvigam - kerala . heheheh.)

tats all app.

Plum

14th October 2009, 08:05 PM

Sureshs65

14th October 2009, 08:19 PM

app_eng,

I agree with you about Jesudas. He surely struggles but his voice has the power which suits the song very well. If you carefully hear M G Sreekumar sing the first two lines of the charanam after Jesudas does, you can see that Sreekumar voice lacks the power that Jesudas has. It is a different question as to how the song would have sounded when Jesudas was at his peak but I will take what I get :) An over the top Jesudas for this song is definitely better than most of the current crop of singers.

app_engine

14th October 2009, 08:30 PM

If you carefully hear M G Sreekumar sing the first two lines of the charanam after Jesudas does, you can see that Sreekumar voice lacks the power that Jesudas has.

Exactly!

அது அவருக்குக்கிடைச்ச வரம் :-)

I think Vijay has a decent portion of it due to genetics but his circumstances may be limiting the performance in movie field(s).

I'm still hopeful that he'll be a replacement for his dad some day, at least for some songs!

app_engine

14th October 2009, 08:40 PM

app_engine, disagree. There's something special about kunnathE. I am just not able to place my fingers on it. It is something beyond an average melody, or even an outstanding melody. There is more to it. konja naal kodunga. kandupidichu solraen :-)

I totally agree that it's a superior song with so much of depth in the background music, especially the percussion arrangement. No, I don't call it average by any standards:-)

Still, the genre / style / melodic content etc. belong to a typical film song and you may probably get every once in a while a super number like this in MFM.

OTOH, 'Adhi ushus' is so atypical for a film song (means not mainstream and you get only once in a decade or so) and so scores over :-)

And when I heard in the car, it just shook the whole body! It sounded like a "3-in-1" and the three are... aruNa kiraNa, guru sharaNam & dEva sangeetham :-)

Plum

14th October 2009, 08:48 PM

Ouch! I still think GURU is unsurpassed, app_engine. It remains the benchmark. mathavanga ellAm nenachu kooda paarka mudiyaadhu

app_engine

14th October 2009, 08:52 PM

I still think GURU is unsurpassed, app_engine. It remains the benchmark.

Yes, I was only expressing the way the song "feels", portions from each of those three songs one is reminded of but the song probably can -at the max -be compared to guru sharaNam while the other two are beyond the reach :-)

Plum

14th October 2009, 08:59 PM

yeah, app, I got it. I was just saying GURU remains unsurpassed for the impact it has on every hearing. Even after you have discovered the nuances, the impact it delivers is exactly the same you had first time. Probably, for me, the all time best of Raja, the culmination of his spontaneity meeting the mathematical precision

tvsankar

14th October 2009, 09:06 PM

about Kunnathae..

As usual - IR's Composition which is fitted
excellently with the mood , situtation and the FEELINGS..

Instrumentation expresses the moods of the
heroine..
(I love female songs of IR very much.)

Situation - This is portraited by the
instruments

FEELINGS - IT is AT KSC's Hands.She did
very sweeeeeet Manners...

Epavum irukum Call and response, supporting style
- ena - ella instruments um - romba perfect aga
seindhu irukum - Under IR control....

inum neraiya sollanam....

kiru

15th October 2009, 01:54 AM

kiru,

A minor thing. It should be 'ushas', which is the Sanskrit for dawn or pre-dawn. As app_eng had translated, the poet says that "the first (Adi) dawn (ushas) and dusk (sandhya) happened here."

And you will be surprised that quite a bit of your imagination has been translated to the screen!!! (I have watched the picturization of this song, thanks to the youtube video link posted by Hulk.)

Ok, thanks for the sanskrit education...and now I have to watch that video.
This is what IR songs do to me.. when I hear a song.. I feel like singing ...I feel like playing that specific instrument (air guitar like they say here in the US) ..I feel like dancing.. and now with visual imagery as portrayed in songs like aadhi ushas.. I yearn for an opportunity to picturise it myself ..(all of these I am incapable of sadly). But it says so much about how good a master he is at the art he has put heart, soul and mind into it.

kiru

15th October 2009, 01:58 AM

Ouch! I still think GURU is unsurpassed, app_engine. It remains the benchmark. mathavanga ellAm nenachu kooda paarka mudiyaadhu

Yes it is ..PR does not surpass it ..to be specific..but because of the nature of the subject (battle tone) it engages you more with its energy than the melancholy that flows under all the compositions in GURU (and I guess the story is itself melancholic).
GURU is not an achievement just for IR, but for the whole indian film music genre itself.
(BTW, you are a melody oriented guy :-) GURU surely has a good mix of both melody and orchestration so no wonder you like it. the only issue I have with kunnathE is the rhythm in the charanams does not relax me )

tvsankar

15th October 2009, 02:06 AM

kiru,
rhythm for kunnathae - konjam consider pannungo..

Yekkama kathindu irukum oru mood ku

epadi irukanam....

gavanigo...

after mamooty's arrival, slow a
change agum - littile bit happy gara madhiri..
rhytham also relfects her yekkam kiru....

idhu ennoda feelings about this song... hhehehe.

Sureshs65

15th October 2009, 08:59 AM

kiru,

As Usha says, the rhythm is not supposed to relax you. The picturization is about the heroine waiting anxiously for the hero and even after he arrives the anxiety continues. Watch the video and you will understand why :D In that way, the rhythm wonderfully conveys the restlessness of the heroine. Without having watched the video, you have felt the same restlessness or lack of calm. Hmmm. That is a success for Raja.

Sureshs65

15th October 2009, 09:02 AM

GURU is not an achievement just for IR, but for the whole indian film music genre itself.

Very true. Within the context of Indian Film nothing of this magnitude has ever been attempted. As Plum said, it is doubtful if others can even think of it. The only musical creating by a MD which went beyond Guru was Tiruvasagam. But that was a non filmi album.

Sureshs65

15th October 2009, 09:04 AM

kiru,

For your quick reference, here is the youtube link for the 'AdiuShas' song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klu2oTSEhOA

raagas

15th October 2009, 11:45 AM

kiru,

For your quick reference, here is the youtube link for the 'AdiuShas' song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klu2oTSEhOA

Precisely and exactly as i Imagined. Thats the power of IR's music. They give cues to the listener and paint images in the minds.

app_engine

15th October 2009, 09:54 PM

"Adhi ushus" in loop.

Can't have enough of it :-)

It's probably years since I hear a majestic number from IR like this one, with powering trumpets / war theme - which was the last one ? 'Bharatha samudhAyam vAzhgavE' of Bharati? or 'vandhE mAtharam' of KP? or Ram Ram of HR? In addition, this has that air of mystery (jungle) and added with some very strong drum sounds - thundering! (The women chorus after first saraNam is like a breezy interval raising goose bumps)!

The genre itself is quite rare in the vast output of IR AFAIK. Probably because of the generation he scored for - mostly romantic / civilian.

OTOH his predecessors had much better opportunities and made great use of it (it's very difficult for any IR song of this genre to come close to -let alone surpass - 'adhO andhappaRavai pOla vAzha vENdum' and the likes).

Fortunately for malayALam, KJY is roped in to score for this song. I'm not even 1% curious to hear the Thamizh version (read somewhere that MB has sung :-( IMO, he can only sing "no-emotion-bhajan" songs like the one he delivered in Bharathi, may do justice to rAga / swara / gamakam etc but the song will go through the ears into brain and get buried there).

Even SPB in his hey days couldn't do much justice to this genre (vArungaL ondRAi sErungaL under MSV, koovungaL sEvalkaLE / Gandhi dEsamE etc under IR are below average performances IMO). TMS tops with SG the only rival (sangE muzhangu). KJY is a distant third but the best for IR (manidhA manidhA). I don't know if MV was even tried, could have been an interesting choice.

Of the Thamizh singers today, the obvious best choice for this genre is ARR and it would be expecting too much to have him sing an IR song today :-) All others are at the best in the Mano range and none is better (mostly aping SPB and thus unworthy for war theme).

Is there any talent outside the regulars of TFM ? (i.e. those who sing politicals / devotionals etc. Who is the current replacement for nAhoor Haneefa in TN?)

Sureshs65

15th October 2009, 10:58 PM

app_eng,

Malaysia Vasudevan was tried and he did a good job. He does an excellent job in 'thondRu thottu' (Avataram). His singing, the tune and orchestration are all brilliant. He did have the voice to carry such songs.

In Telugu, Gantasala was able to do justice to songs like this. 'telugu veera lEvarA' from 'Alluri Sitarama Raju comes to my mind. Kishore Kumar in Hindi had the voice but I am not sure if he got any such songs. Rafi had the same problem like SPB. His voice was probably too soft for such power packed songs. I am not too convinced about ARR being the right choice.

I am not sure of people outside of TFM but in case of Telugu music, I would probably think one of folk / revolutionary singers like Gaddar would be able to carry off such songs well. I recently heard one such person (don't know his name) who came on TV as a judge for a Telugu singing competition. He sang snatches of some folk song and what a power packed performance it was!!

Sureshs65

15th October 2009, 11:00 PM

Another song of KJY in this mode would be 'manadhil urudi vendum'.

irir123

15th October 2009, 11:25 PM

the basic rhythm/beat of "Aadiushash sandhya" reminds me of the India 24 Hrs main theme - in fact, the interludes with the flute portions, but, minus the blaring war motifs wud have easily fit in as another track in the India 24 hrs album! this song is so ethnic-Indian sounding! a great album to explore from an ethnomusicologists perspective!

app_engine

15th October 2009, 11:26 PM

Suresh,
Thanks for the pointer to the MV song - haven't heard it. I'll try to listen from thiraippAdal sometime today.

Did you hear 'ellAppugazhum' from ATM? ARR excels towards the end when he stretches like 'thOzhA, munnAl vAdA, unnAl mudiyumm, unnAl mudiyummmmhhmm -thOzhA'. Also his vandhE mAdharam is strong stuff.

Kamal probably will do a nice job as well.

irir123

15th October 2009, 11:58 PM

app_engine: its mine and a few others' observation/opinion that ARR somehow brings in an emotional frenzied high in his tracks, which appeals greatly to the masses! even in his first album ROJA, the portion "nadhiye nee aanaal, kadal naaney...." from "pudhu vellai mazhai" did the trick!

OTOH, IR does it ONLY if it is required for the situation (as in PR; or "en kanavinai kel nanbaa" (Desiya geetham); "ram ram" (Hey Ram) - maybe somehow shd persuade IR to include at least one track in each of his album, irrespective of whether such a component is required or not, so as to have a popular appeal!

baroque

16th October 2009, 12:53 AM

Suresh,
There is a song from HINDUSTAN KI KASAM....MADHAN MOHAN.
hindustan ki kasam.....mohd.rafi with manna dey & chorus is a majestic composition as I remember.
hai tere saath meri wafa.... Lata Mangeshkar is amazing composition from the same movie.
Rahman bhaiya is amazing, Suresh. In Azaadi.....with choir orchestration...Bose the forgotten Hero. You will like it.

Shri.Yesudas's range and resonance is unparallel!
Diwali wishes to you all!
love,
vinatha.

rprasad

16th October 2009, 01:06 AM

According to me no MD Past or present can come close to giving a song like Manidha Manidha as far as revolutionary type of songs are concerned. The tune, the singing the orchestration in that song is brilliant and you get the whole feel by just listening to it and at the same time it was fresh and did not resemble the trend for such songs at that time. To me IR is unsurpassed when it comes to songs/music matching the visuals/theme perfectly. The only movie where i thought the visuals did not do justice completely for the songs is Maniratnam's Dalapathi. When i heard the songs first i visualized something else and ended up getting something else when i actually saw the movie. Not sure if it was Mani's or IR fault. but these are far and few for IR i believe.

app_engine

16th October 2009, 01:52 AM

http://movies.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/oct/15/slide-show-1-south-interview-with-hariharan.htm

Re-recording was done in Budapest. Ilayaraja wanted it there with the symphony. Various cultures had to be shown through music, and it had to be authentic.

It seems the movie is getting released in Kerala with a 50% tax cut today. No U.S. release for this.

app_engine

16th October 2009, 02:16 AM

http://sify.com/movies/malayalam/fullstory.php?id=14915165

3 hours 20 minutes - there should be a number of BGM pieces, esp with BSO employed. It would be nice to get this on a CD!

irir123

16th October 2009, 02:51 AM

"At Palakkad Priyadarshini, the Mammootty fans association has put up a 550 feet hoarding and they are planning to have Palabhisekam, on the opening day"

even the literate, rationalist malayalis are into 'palabishekam' of their stars cutouts ??? until now I thought only our TN fans indulge in such shameless 'milk pouring' stunts for their stars photos etc - surprising indeed!

baroque

16th October 2009, 03:11 AM

Sureshs65

16th October 2009, 06:10 AM

app_eng,

I am not sure if he knows Tamil but Vijay Prakash could be a good choice for such songs. He does a very good job in the second part of 'Om Sivoham' where the power is needed. It was our good luck that Raja used him for that song and didn't choose someone like Madhu B.

Reg Rahman, what I meant was that his style of singing would not suit a Raja song. If you observe, in the type of songs we are discussing, Rahman uses the standard pop/rock technique of setting up a melodic base before the refrain goes to an 'emotional high' as irir123 puts it. 'Vande Mataram' and 'Bose' are examples of such tuning. Whereas Raja tunes such songs differently. His songs like 'Manidha Manidha' and 'Thondru Thottu' require sustained aggression and hence the service of a well trained and deep voice. (I am never able to get till the end of the 'tozha' song :) )

Sureshs65

16th October 2009, 06:23 AM

A technique which works for such powerful songs is to use a chorus rather than a single voice. 'nettiyile pottu vai' from Virumandi can be a case in point. An extremely powerful song driven by the chorus. 'Vande Mataram' in Kalapani was also done the same way.

app_eng: Another singer who wasn't too bad but not effective either was Rajkumar Bharathi in 'kElaDA maniDA' in Bharathi.

Vinatha: I don't think I have heard the Rafi-Mannadey song from Hindustan Ki Kasam (I have heard the other lovely song from this film, 'har taraf ab tere afsane hai'). I was more thinking about songs like 'kar chale alvida' and 'zindabad zindabad mohabbat zindabad' where Rafi does a good job but these songs would have probably been more effective if a more powerful voice was used. One of the very forceful songs in Hindi would be 'darthi kahe pukar ke' from 'Do Bigha Zameen'. Salil Da is supposed to have drawn inspiration from a Russian folk song but it does work well here.

/ Digression: Somehow the 'Azadi' song from Bose did not work for me as much as 'Vande Mataram'. The style of tuning is similar. A melodic base followed by the high of the refrain. Unfortunately after 'Vande Mataram' lot of ads had started using similar tuning and whenever I hear Rahman go 'Aaaazaaadi' I keep thinking about some ad or the other. I know lot of people like 'Azadi' and mine be an isolated instance but I have not been able to connect to that song.

baroque

16th October 2009, 09:07 AM

அப்படியா .. You are mentioning some amazing compositions.
there are so many wonderful compositions make emotional impact with the hypnotic tunes and poignant singing!:musicsmile:
Some of the soothing tunes too make seductive impact!
dig
நாடு அதை நாடு ....ராக pagadi...ஸ்ரீ.விஸ்வநாதன்
apni aazadi ko hum.....Rafi & chorus.
sarfaroshi ki tammana....Legend of Bagat singh...hypnotic Rahman conjures powerful poignancy with rag DESH
அச்சமில்லை அச்சமில்லை.....பாலா....வைத்யநாதன்
பாரத சமுதாயம்......யேசுதாஸ்....இளையராஜா
mere desh ki darti...Upkar...Kalyanji-anandji
ekla chalo...Sonu
நெஞ்சில் உரமின்றி....சீர்காழி கோவிந்தராஜன்..ராமநாதன்.G
List is endless.
end
vinatha. :)

Plum

16th October 2009, 09:30 AM

I think rahman's renditions are succesful in portraying earnestness and poignancy. I don't think rabble rousing rhetoric gets a fillip with his voice. Kjy possibly takes the cake here - even in his washed up state in the last few years josh mein josh mein from shiva packed a punch.

baroque

16th October 2009, 09:35 AM

yeah... Remember Swades :musicsmile:

Shri.Yesudas is MATCHLESS!
declared already! :bluejump: :musicsmile:

Safe & Happy Diwali, guys!
Vinatha.

raagas

16th October 2009, 10:17 AM

sarfaroshi ki tammana....Legend of Bagat singh...hypnotic Rahman conjures powerful poignancy with rag DESH

ah yes, this is one good number. rich orchestration, that somehow reminded if ilaiyaraaja when i first heard it.Good layers!

Sureshs65

16th October 2009, 12:30 PM

To all fellow hubbers, A very Happy Diwali. Have a nice time and take care when you burst crackers.

I guess today Pazhassiraja must have exploded on screen. Raja has given us a good Diwali treat and let us hope there is more to come before the year ends!!

Sureshs65

16th October 2009, 06:29 PM

I have been reading some good reviews of Pazhassiraja in Forum Kerala. Looks like it will turn out to be a hit. One review mentions about the BGM being like that of a Hollywood movie. I guess we will know the exact status in a couple of days time but the general feeling is that it is a well made film.

Contrary to Plum's expectations it looks like Sharath Kumar steals the show :D

krish244

16th October 2009, 06:35 PM

PR review from Rediff. Says its brilliant, but no mention of music/BGM.

http://movies.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/16/south-malayalam-movie-review-pazhassi-raja.htm

thanks,

Krishnan

irir123

16th October 2009, 06:54 PM

Rediff reviewers are "gyana soonyams" when it comes to reviewing/analysing music - they are best left ignored

sivasub

16th October 2009, 07:22 PM

http://movies.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/16/south-malayalam-movie-review-pazhassi-raja.htm

but only 3.5 points and no sound (Resool) about music (IR)!!!

Plum

16th October 2009, 07:32 PM

Rediff-A? Lajja reviewla "southie bgm"-nu ezhudhinA gumbal dhAnE? Adhavadhu dholak, stock standard bgm illainA, proper bgm potta adhu southie styleamam :lol:

app_engine

16th October 2009, 08:45 PM

anegan

16th October 2009, 11:49 PM

Sound Mixing seems to be one of the newer aspects of a movie review after Resul's Oscar.
I'll have to google to see what Sound Mixing is.

I am 100% percent satisfied with Pazhasi Raja songs. It can't be any better. I won't miss the movie, waiting to be released here in MN.

Sureshs65

16th October 2009, 11:59 PM

kiru

17th October 2009, 12:03 AM

http://sify.com/movies/malayalam/review.php?id=14915401&ctid=5&cid=2428

says movie is excellent :-) but mentions IR's music could have been better (one of the worse aspects of the movie it seems) :-(

"In the light of the controversial, brain-dead and provocative statements in this article, the name of the author will not be disclosed for fear of personal safety and only the psuedoname of Moviebuzz has been used" - unpublished statement from sify :-)

Bala (Karthik)

17th October 2009, 12:03 AM

kiru

17th October 2009, 12:13 AM

app_eng,

I have been hearing things which are almost the opposite of what this reviewer wrote. A friend of mine who watched the movie texted me from the theater to say that the only two things top class in this movie were Raja's music (songs and BGM) and Rasool's sound. He was not fully satisfied with the other aspects. I guess the exact picture will emerge after a couple of days but I am confident that the reviewer has no ear for music !!
HI Suresh..thanks to the youtube link..I did watch it once ..both songs..I understand the kunnathE situation better..back to the picturization..I am not that excited.. for the big screen you really do not want such closeups..the camera never captured the grandeur or the action that much.. Hariharan in the interview mentions he did not want to do movies after watching Hollywood DVDs..but there are lots of things to learn from them..even music for indian film was apparently started by some white guys..who wanted the indian musicians to use a big orchestra to go with the big screen..IR surely has done this ..but not sure how others have fared.

Sureshs65

17th October 2009, 12:31 AM

kiru,

Depends on who you ask :D A friend who sent me an SMS, while watching the movie, had similar sentiments like yours!! He feels Raja has done more than justice to the BGM. He loves the songs but feels the BGM is a level higher!!! I am waiting for the movie to be released in Bangalore.

In a way that has been the problem of Raja. A world class music director stuck in a place where no one knows how to make a grand movie. I was so pissed when I watched the last 15 or 20 mins of Lajja. What a background score and what pathetic direction!!

Sureshs65

17th October 2009, 12:50 AM

Let me now write my views on the next song of Pazhassiraja, 'aalamadangan'.

If someone were to ask you to take elements of hard rock, some elements from middle eastern music, fuse them with Indian drums and produce a Muslim devotional song, you would probably laugh at that person!! But this is exactly what Raja does with this song.

The song opening reminds me of the hard rock songs, especially the opening of 'Immigrant Song' of LedZep. The thundering drums start the song and the synthesizer joins by producing a sound like the call of 'muezzin' to join the prayers. The drums keep thundering and the chorus starts the song with a lot of power. After the first couple of lines, the chorus seems to realize that they singing about the supreme being and soften their stance a bit. And when the 'la illa ah il allah' starts everyone reverentially quietens down. But only for a fraction of second. The synth drums join in providing more power and push to prayer. The chorus shifts to an higher octave.

The mandolin first starts the interlude with middle eastern sounding music. The synth keyboard join in playing a serpentine phrase. The same keyboard keeps providing such serpentine phrases in the charanam as well.

The charanam has three strands of rhythm going on. One, is on the synth pads. The next one is happening on the Indian drums. The third one is on an instrument whose name I don't know. It is somewhat like a dumbbell with beads and the player just keeps twisting it (RD Burman used to use this often.) All these three strands merge wonderfully to provide one powerful rhythm for the charanam. When the charanam ends and the 'la illaha' refrain is taking, something like the clash of the sword sound joins in. Instead of the initial silence during this refrain, you are now treated to an even more powerful rhythm.

The second interlude also belongs to the synth keyboard with the rhythms providing power in the background. 'lachan kaadam doora poyi latchiyam kaananum enrilla'. Nice words. As usual this charanam also ends with the refrain 'la illaha'. Only this time after a round of rhythm the refrain is repeated again. What follows is sheer rhythmic joy. All the rhythm guys together play a powerful pattern for 3 to 4 times and just when you are thinking as to when the pattern will change, the pace of drumming quickens and the metal part of the drums (is it called hit-hat?) joins in to give a glorious adrenalin filled climax to the song.

The best thing about the song is the changes in rhythm as well as the energy level of the rhythm maintained throughout the song. Raja ensures that he gives a high energy song since this is supposed to be sung by a martial sect in the movie. A combination of reverence and high energy. Possible only by Raja.

app_engine

17th October 2009, 12:52 AM

ambum kombum - AhA, what a song!

I didn't venture into this much before yesterday as 'kunnaththE' and 'Adhi ushus' were too powerful to let me get into this and honestly, I found the noises in the beginning are sort of a "turn-off".

Meanwhile my 3 yr old (who insists on www.pbskids.orgfor lunch / dinner nowadays and uses the notebook like a video game according to my wife) got familiarised with this song from the playlist there. She was so insistent in getting this song played in the car (starts giggling at the start -remarking 'kOmALi saththam').

So, that's how I'm pulled into listening to this song in full and am amazed!

brilliantO brilliantu, despite some familiar phrases here and there. Completely dance worthy!!

(I did the horrible mistake of putting the kaNNukkuLLE songs in the same CD as PR. Tried to listen a few times during drives here and there but cannot go beyond a minute in all but 'pachcha mEni'.

Other than that one, rest are as Shankar said - maNNukkuLLE only.

Well, that one also is just about average for the catchy beat & background, especially saraNam is scintillating. However, I'm not a big fan of Usha-Udhup-wannabees and may not give repeat listenings to this. It's very difficult to accept that IR did score for this album)

sivasub

17th October 2009, 12:53 AM

http://www.zonkerala.com/magazine/pazhassi-raja-review-156.html

minus for music again

http://www.apakistannews.com/pazhassi-raja-review-142622

a big plus for music

Sureshs65

17th October 2009, 12:57 AM

app_eng,

What Plum feared earlier seems to be coming true. Looks like 'ambum kombum' and 'odathandil' song do not figure in the movie !! :(

Don't worry about Kannukulle now. Just go along with Pazhassiraja. As of now no film music is advisable along with Pazhassiraja :)

Bala (Karthik)

17th October 2009, 01:01 AM

brilliantO brilliantu, despite some familiar phrases here and there. Completely dance worthy!!

:exactly:

Plum

17th October 2009, 08:12 AM

Nothing new. Fine music. Avg film(looks like , and I wasn't impressed with thr trailers either). Goes down the drain and doesn't use some great songs.

"Allahvin anumadhi illdhe, indhai nilamiyil edhum maatram varadhallo" ada pongappa

Sureshs65

17th October 2009, 08:45 AM

Plum,

From what my friend told me, looks like you were spot on about the English actors as well :) He says they were atrocious. Whether the movie will be a success or not is a different question but the movie seems to be an average one.

irir123

17th October 2009, 10:24 AM

rajaalltheway

17th October 2009, 12:05 PM

[tscii:0919063624]The eagerly awaited magnum opus ‘Pazhassi Raja’ is somewhat disappointing in a whimsical way ,its too long for absolutely no reason at all . The Hariharan-Mammootty-MTV combo after the crude but brilliant VVG can be compared to Verner Herzog-Klauss Kinjski behemoths. Its just that Hariharan lacks the finesse and the capacity to handle projects of such magnitude like
Herzog and has to learn the crowd management skills from the good old I.V.Sasi.
Since this movie has a lot of the ‘physical’ aspects of the early freedom struggle ,action
sequences lap up a lot of footage and sadly action director Ravi Dewan instead of hiring
DVDs of Braveheart or Gladiator has preferred Jhon Woo and Jackie Chan for guidance.The result is everyone from Mammooty to Sarath Kumar to Padmapriya spends
a lot of time flying around with the aid of cables.
As I said earlier the screenplay is dependent on physical strain of the warrior prince and his cohorts ,the great MTV is cramped for space to do something with his pen. Few dialogues remain in memory unlike the classic ‘Chandu’ thunderbolts from VVG.
The supporting cast of Manoj K Jayan Suresh Krishna,Padmapriya,Kaniha etc do their job but fails to bring in the required intensity we got from Madhavi,Captain Raju and Suresh Gopi in VVG.‘Kunnathe Konna’ on big screen needed a surreal beauty in place of
Kaniha.Padmapriya is plain silly in action sequences.

As expected the masters of the ceremony—ISAIGNANI ILAIYARAJA and RESOOL POOKKUTTY.If not for Resools out of this world sound design,the movie would have
fizzled out.Hiring Resool was the producers last minute decision and he wont rue it.The
marching of soldiers,the cling clangs of metal,the forest sequences…everywhere sound stands apart,shoulder to shoulder with the best of Hollywood and Europe.Salute…

To really appreciate the bgm of this movie one has to at least listen to the compositions
of Nino Rota,Ennio Morricone,Maurice Jarr,Miklos Rozsa for movies like God Father,
Ben Hur Dr.Zhivago etc.along with this a dash of masters like Prokofievs’ Lt.Kije series,George Gershwin can give a picture of beauty of the whole package. Its evident
that Ayya has spent a lot of time writing the music.It ranges from subtle –(Thilakan Mammootty confrontation- ) to soft- (mammooty-kaniha combination) to waft-(the jungle) to thunder (almost all Sarath Kumar scenes).The Sarath Kumar intro music is
pulse raising.The climax sword fight and the Suman-Sarath Kumar fight scene is accompanied by such orchestration, it wont be out of place in any James Cameron production.My knowledge and vocabulary on music and instruments limits me but this
score is going to go down in history books as AVANT GARDE..

[/tscii:0919063624]

rajaalltheway

17th October 2009, 12:11 PM

Ambum Kombum is sadly sidelined...using it wouldve made this long and patience testing ritual a bit more bearable..

Sureshs65

17th October 2009, 01:28 PM

Nice review rajaalltheway. I will definitely try and see the movie when it comes to Bangalore. Hope they release the Malayalam version here. I shudder to think how other versions would be after reading your report.

Hulkster

17th October 2009, 01:45 PM

Today i am going to write a review of an unexpected film, Jaganmohini(It released in Singapore) :D

Just the film

First the film, amazingly graphics were quite good when you compare them to the graphics that have been recently seen in tamil movies. Not the american or pan-indian level but certainly better than expected. Its an all out fantasy film retaining the story of the original. The execution of the film is above average and it sustains the pace.

Although story has the customary manthiravathi and his quest for the ultimate power and typical fantasy elements, the director thankfully does not bore us with too many overdone dialogues and exaggerating scenes(and yes there are namitha specials albeit with less oomph than you guys would have expected). Hero fits his role to the T, but i believe he did not dub for himself which brings down the impact.

Cinematography was more like amateur photography. Yaaro artificial set veichi padam yedutha mathiri feeling. :curse: And the comedy by vadivelu is neither here or there. Quite dull.

Music

All of us have been cheated by thalaivar :angry2:. There is a EXTRA song in the film which itself has TWO versions. It is a song welcoming a married couple but it has a amazing swing-like modern rhythm. But the best part is its second version which comes in the END credits. It is orchestrated with a symphonic style and thalaivar has gone berserk in this area. This version of the song mind you is FOUR times better than nilavu varum neram.

Now the BGM :lol2:. The film after all the thanking starts with a chilling score all the way till the first scene comes. The orchestration of that title piece is enough to blow you away.

Thalaivar's BGM is best in that it exploits WCM and as well only plays when the time is required. The highlight is the love theme. They differ accordingly to the situation meaning at times they employ a sultry feel when the scene is like that and tends to be more romantic when it is just plain gazing. Super. :clap: :notworthy:

You can seriously watch the film for its execution,graphics,BGM and of course that EXTRA song that we were cheated of. Please if you do see listen to it when it comes in the END CREDITS.

Just one more thing, the songs in the movie have fast-forwarded ludes so you guys might get irritated. I certainly was :angry2:

Shankar

17th October 2009, 04:02 PM

[tscii:9e946292a0]>>>>
Yes, there are aspects which one feels could have been better,like Ilayaraja’s music but the film as a whole is good enough that makes us forget those flaws.
<<<<

This is what sify (and indiaglitz) say...Man, they better be sure about what they are writing...More than the songs, I was expecting the BGScore to be the best in class.

Will watch and give my comments.[/tscii:9e946292a0]

Shankar

17th October 2009, 04:12 PM

Shankar

17th October 2009, 08:50 PM

http://www.nowrunning.com/movie/4056/malayalam/pazhassi-raja/review.htm

Says Raja's score is heavenly ! No surprises here, I guess.

MumbaiRamki

18th October 2009, 10:58 AM

Saw jegan mohini .....But for raaja's msic , this is a damp squib .. was able to see modern buildings in one fight scene .. the scren play was good, but the execution as bad !

raagas

18th October 2009, 11:51 AM

Music

All of us have been cheated by thalaivar :angry2:. There is a EXTRA song in the film which itself has TWO versions. It is a song welcoming a married couple but it has a amazing swing-like modern rhythm. But the best part is its second version which comes in the END credits. It is orchestrated with a symphonic style and thalaivar has gone berserk in this area. This version of the song mind you is FOUR times better than nilavu varum neram.
You can seriously watch the film for its execution,graphics,BGM and of course that EXTRA song that we were cheated of. Please if you do see listen to it when it comes in the END CREDITS.

Just one more thing, the songs in the movie have fast-forwarded ludes so you guys might get irritated. I certainly was :angry2:

Now gentlemen! HOW DO WE GET HOLD OF THIS TRACK?

rajaalltheway

18th October 2009, 08:07 PM

"Ramnath Shetty comes up with sheer poetry and achieves a picturesque fineness with the imagery, as his camera pans the enormous landscapes, mountains and caverns, dense jungles and rivers"
Actually the movie had 3 cinematographers..in the beginning it was Venu,then another guy came in,Ramnath Shetty was the final entrant shooting some 45 percent left.

baroque

18th October 2009, 11:06 PM

http://passionforcinema.com/pazhassi-raja-worthless-lives-priceless-freedom/

vinatha

krish244

19th October 2009, 06:09 PM

Jaganmohini's review by Rediff. Says, its half baked.

http://movies.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/19/south-tamil-movie-review.htm

"...he has, however, sworn to marry only a prince, as her destiny says so. Needless to say, there are plenty of double entendres, duets to Ilayaraja's lackluster music until disaster strikes: the prince returns home and informs his parents that he's had his heart set on a pearl-diver. ..."

thanks,

Krishnan

Vysar

19th October 2009, 08:05 PM

[tscii:1920029e9e]Another dull feather to his cap for the self centered Maestro who doesn't believe in the world that is changing

"Yes, there are aspects which one feels could have been better,like Ilayaraja’s music but the film as a whole is good enough that makes us forget those flaws. Critics might say that the film has taken some cinematic liberties and in fact it does but on the whole it is engaging and entertaining."

http://sify.com/movies/malayalam/review.php?id=14915401&ctid=5&cid=2428[/tscii:1920029e9e]

app_engine

19th October 2009, 08:16 PM

Sify's is a nonsense statement, as for as songs are concerned.

Absolutely fantastic songs!

Also I don't believe sify has the calibre to comment about any BGM - IR or otherwise, as per their previous reviews.

Going by his past record with BGM (especially when BSO is employed), it can definitely not be low point of such movies, unless the listener is deaf to most frequencies or has a perverted agenda like that of Charu / Gnani and the likes.

Vysar, you can sharpen your missiles on lesser works of IR (which are plenty recently).

I don't think PR deserves your attack, that too using sify as the arsenal!

jaiganes

19th October 2009, 08:20 PM

[tscii:b2ae2dc499]Another dull feather to his cap for the self centered Maestro who doesn't believe in the world that is changing

"Yes, there are aspects which one feels could have been better,like Ilayaraja’s music but the film as a whole is good enough that makes us forget those flaws. Critics might say that the film has taken some cinematic liberties and in fact it does but on the whole it is engaging and entertaining."

http://sify.com/movies/malayalam/review.php?id=14915401&ctid=5&cid=2428[/tscii:b2ae2dc499]

aei yaaruppa ange finit adingappa.

Sureshs65

19th October 2009, 09:09 PM

Vysar,

I think you will also be posting what some other people say about Raja's music in Pazhassiraja, isnt it? Maybe you will now read the link Vinatha has posted, the link Shankar has posted and then in block letters let us know what those particular reviewers have felt about Raja's music. And while you are doing that you can also check out the reviews posted in forum kerala. Make one consolidated block letter posting once you have read them all. Go for it Vysar, we are waiting to be enlightened.

Unga Sevai, intha naatuku thevai!!

Plum

19th October 2009, 09:15 PM

Suresh, this is one notorious troll - don't give a minute of your time replying. Pazhassi raja kettuttu thittaravanga kooda okay - sondha opinion solraangannu sollalaam. Ivarukku quote panna oru review thevai padudhu - idhukku oru reply thevaiyaa?

Sureshs65

19th October 2009, 09:18 PM

Vysar, you can sharpen your missiles on lesser works of IR (which are plenty recently).

app_eng,

In order for Vyasar to understand whether a work is good or bad he has to listen to it. The problem of listening to Raja's songs is that if you have some semblance of musical taste you will get attracted to it or else you end up showing your ignorance. Hence Vysar and likes take the easy route of quoting some review. It makes them feel that they have authority on their side and also hides their own ignorance.

So no need to worry. If someone feels Pazhassiraja songs are bad, they are more than welcome to post their view on why they are bad.

Sureshs65

19th October 2009, 09:21 PM

Plum,

I fully agree with what you say. I said as much in my next post. Really not worth replying.

Vysar

19th October 2009, 10:01 PM

* deleted *

WARNING: No provocation!

MumbaiRamki

19th October 2009, 10:06 PM

http://www.keralapals.com/2009/10/pazhassi-raja-review-pazhassi-raja-malayalam-movie-review/

Around 20 reviews for the film , almost most of them at minimum say its above average...and much to the discomfort of our sage , have appreciated Illayaraaja's music ;)

app_engine

19th October 2009, 10:22 PM

Murali Srinivas has a long post in the "Indian films" forum :

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=13408&start=15

app_engine

19th October 2009, 10:28 PM

as truth hurts some times

Well, it's now very clear that you have a Charu like agenda :-)

Going forward, it'll be very difficult to take your posts seriously!

Vysar

19th October 2009, 10:47 PM

Who cares whether you take me seriously or not. I will post my honest opinions here once in a while as tfm is a open forum agreed!

NormalMan

19th October 2009, 10:54 PM

The forum needs jesters & ding-a-ling's (my honest opinion :wink: ). Anyways was looking for something amusing on a boring Monday morning .... got my dose.

Plum

19th October 2009, 11:26 PM

seri, let me quote some of those:
This seems to be a layman's view with just an expression of what it evoked rather than tech analysis so one can definitely appreciate that it has seeped through to the masses:

ilaiayaraajayude music super aanu........valare vyathyasthamaaya music...............idhuvarakkum malayalathil kelkatha reethi...........

pinne paattukal..........endhu parayan............ilaiyaraajayude ettavum best workil onnanu pazhassi.............evideyayirunnu iyaal ennu thoni povum.........malayalathil iyaalude best workaanu........athu pinne oru hariharan touch kondaavum ennu parayaam...........

Ilaiyaraaaja's music is super(b). Totally different music. Of a kind never heard before in Malayalam.
And then the songs...
One of the best albums of Raja. You'd think where he was all this while. His best effort in Malayalam it is a gushing comment, note, it has moved from one of the best to best in a sentence's gap One can say there's a hariharan touch to it. [i] thats a comment, unknowingly, on Raja's ability to adapt to specific styles of direction ,/b>

Plum

19th October 2009, 11:28 PM

Ilayaraja's music: He proved he can provide another classic at this age. All the songs suited well to this historical period movie. Aadhiushas,kunnathe being the pick of the album.

Ilayaraja yude songs ellam padathinu apt ayirunnu....onnum echu kettiyathayi thonniyilla...amazing composition...
- Dont think this needs translation

Rajasirnte songs really stand apart.. valare manoharangalaya songs... thakarppan BG score.. he is still a master of that

Malayalis generally dont place an artist from other states in the pedestal while assessing their contribution in their movies - usually, the popular ones from other states are external to them, and are appreciated for things they bring that are not native to Malayalam like western pop or Kuthu songs or adi poli(truly) masala movies etc - but inge ovvoruthanum Raja-Sir-nu ezhudharachE, I swell up because that shows how much he has penetrated the malayali psyche.

These are all kuppans and suppans writing reviews. The fact that these guys appreciate music like Pazhassi Raja's shows us why Kerala stands above us in appreciating music

app_engine

20th October 2009, 01:13 AM

http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/malayalamContentView.do?programId=1073753765&contentId=6112111&tabId=11

I didn't take the 'pAlAbishEkam' business seriously when sify was talking about the plans of some fan clubs. It's not gonna happen was what I thought.

However, shockingly so, it appears they actually did such (yuck) as reported by manOrama in the above link (mAthrubhoomi - the other newspaper with a decent circulation - says these fellows created a "Thamizh feeling").

All these 'aRivu jeevi' 'mEdhAvi' etc claims of Keralites (especially ridiculing the crazy ones in TN) have gone for a big six!

Ok, something relevant to the thread : Manorama says in this news report (not a review) that the songs by IR are remarkable :-)
As expected, the Malayalam debut of Resool Pookkutty has generated sky-high praises from everyone. (One thing I notice on most of these links is the uniform praise for Sarathkumar - even those that didn't like the movie praise him lavishly. That's quite interesting as he is one of those with least amount of reputation in our hub)

Vysar

20th October 2009, 03:02 AM

The forum needs jesters & ding-a-ling's (my honest opinion :wink: ). Anyways was looking for something amusing on a boring Monday morning .... got my dose.

Kudos! I didn't know you are the one playing the jester role in TFMpage. Personal attack hmm... for criticizing the idol of yours, so sad.

NormalMan

20th October 2009, 03:39 AM

jaiganes

20th October 2009, 03:40 AM

Plum

20th October 2009, 10:16 AM

I saw the songs on surya tv yesterday. I know I have been flip flopping without watching even uteeb of any part of the movie but that was just anxiety at whether this promising opportunity will be fruitful for Raja. I have to admit that I had been hasty - nice picturisation, if they spent money, it shows. Mammookka shines, and even mr radhika is impressive. I don't mind eatong my words here - and the songs just squeeze your heart when seen along with the visuals. I am keen to watch this on screen now. Anyone knows where it is, if at all, running in mumbai?

raagas

20th October 2009, 03:10 PM

IR has pampered and spoilt me a lot this year. So many albums. So many wonderful songs.

Now, what next? in which language?

Shankar

20th October 2009, 04:33 PM

* deleted *

WARNING: No provocation!

Vysar,
varushathukku oru dhadavai vandhu seruppu mAlai vAngikkarEnnu veNduthala?? If you are whom I think you are, I pity you wannabe"xxxx" :)

raagas

20th October 2009, 05:56 PM

I somehow never understand the point behind posting some website's review here. I thought any forum is to exchange one's own opinions and thoughts.

Sureshs65

20th October 2009, 07:29 PM

app_engine

20th October 2009, 07:51 PM

With PR, it seems I'll have to keep revising my opinion on the songs as there are lot more to be discovered in them :-)

kunnaththE - sometime back I commented this to be a typical song, similar to those nice ones that used to appear reasonably regularly in MFM in 80's / 90's.

While that still holds good for the melody / lyric / Chitra part, this man IR had done a lot of extra stuff into it per my closer observation now - after a lot of repeat listenings :-)

For a sample, in the second interlude, that starting veeNA portion would have been there in any good MD's song (e.g. Raveendran)...why even in an average MD's song (e.g. Vidyasagar). However, the strings / flute / some unknown background stuff combo that follows is extraordinary, creating a flying feeling - only a great maestro can cook up something like that! (Well, he brings us back to earth with the solo violin conclusion of the interlude - decent but regular, only to hit us again in the saraNam.)

The complex percussion arrangement for the saraNam (combined with a continuous play of a piano like instrument that lasts till the end of the song) is something that is unique to this song. This concoction is probably a new offering from IR (at least I haven't heard something like this from him or anyone else before).

BTW, what is the beat pattern for the pallavi - does sound complex to me (but not new, a slowed down version from sempoovE-poovE's pallavi)

Plum

20th October 2009, 08:54 PM

app, very nicely written. Enjoyed it.

BTW, seeing the picturisation, I realised that the reference to Aadi ushas sandhya is to the jungle rather than Kerala. I think the reference is that in a generic manner, it is implying the forest origins of man.

Sureshs65

20th October 2009, 11:12 PM

app_eng,

Nice writeup. That is what PR has done to all of us. Made us listen to the songs more keenly. You still need to do a deep dive into 'odathandil' :)

kiru

20th October 2009, 11:56 PM

Yes Plum. All three songs I saw on youtube were well picturized. I am also looking forward to seeing the movie. The only problem is time, as always :( Hopefully will make it to the theater before the movie vanishes.

Well..you and Plum like it because I guess because..the songs look like they were made for small screen so that you can see the actors properly..If it were shot appropriately for the big screen..watching it on youtube would not have been satisfying..I am more in line with rajalltheway's review on this. He also mentioned that there were quite a bit of cinematographers involved and so onscreen scenes might have been ok compared to the songs. Moreover, there is some dilution with the focus on martial arts (a la Zhang Yimou - crouching tiger hidder dragon) vs focus on war/battle itself. I am sure the team is pretty strong on creativity, but picturization is a technique/technology that could have been handled with better talent behind the camera, special effects etc. I will also add one more movie example to the list given by rajaalltheway - Last of the mohicans - same jungle theme, small group waylaying the organized british. When it comes to the royal subject not only Hollywood, there are lot of old movies - MGR/Sivaji where these great guys have done more than enough justice. So from a directorial point it should not be a big challenge. They just need to innovate only on the screenplay.

kiru

21st October 2009, 12:17 AM

..

For a sample, in the second interlude, that starting veeNA portion would have been there in any good MD's song (e.g. Raveendran)...why even in an average MD's song (e.g. Vidyasagar). However, the strings / flute / some unknown background stuff combo that follows is extraordinary, creating a flying feeling - only a great maestro can cook up something like that! (Well, he brings us back to earth with the solo violin conclusion of the interlude - decent but regular, only to hit us again in the saraNam.)

You are right..please watch the video or movie..The interlude was made to order sort of..mammooty plays the veena..the 'extraordinay feeling' is the joy on the queen's face on seeing the raaja surprise presence there..Usha tipped me about this earlier.

NormalMan

21st October 2009, 02:33 AM

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 07:12 AM

kiru

21st October 2009, 08:35 AM

Suresh..you have made my job eaiser w.r.t responding to NormalMan. Dev D. is Music Integration work, lots of nice rhythms/arrangements picked up from elsewhere and processed/polished and packaged for consumption by the 'i like cool stuff' crowd.
Not sure, this is up IR's alley, maybe Rehman can challenge it or it was done to challenge Rehman. aadhi ushas is IR kind of stuff. Well..I too feel PR does not beat Guru, but this does not mean IR has to keep setting bars higher and higher always and especially when even if it is below Guru it beats others by a big margin in terms of creativity and innovation.
You are right about asymmetry.. for eg. aadhi ushas female chorus is the shrunken pallavi and by extending the last pallavi the whole song is like a single WCM movement with allegro, andante kind of structure. Even other albums had lots of asymmetry..for eg..swapnangal in baghyadevata starts with a nice classic rock arrangement ..switches to tabla and back very seamlessly..
Maybe NormalMan can elaborate on the salient points of Dev D. I am not getting it (and I can very believe your experience of it).

jaiganes

21st October 2009, 08:42 AM

NormalMan,

Digression: I have the tape of Dev D and have listened it to multiple times. Initially I was also stuck by all the experimentation done. But after quite some listens it sounds a bit boring now. I just cannot take the tape out and put it on nowadays. I mean how many times can you listen to 'emotional hatyachar'. The problem with songs based on novelty is that they wear off quite easily and that is the problem with Dev D
End Digression

I honestly don't understand the concept of asymmetric album. If you have actually understood all the rhythm patterns used in Pazhassiraja and feel they quite the staple, why don't you explain them? I mean I have been asking someone to give me an idea of what has been done on the rhythm front in Pazhassiraja and I am yet to get an expert to give some explanation.

I also find that lot of people use Guru to beat down Raja regularly. I have read stuff like "the last good thing he ever did was Guru", "why do say this is good. Have you listened to Guru" and stuff like that. While hide behind Guru? Why don't people come out and say what they did not find good in Pazhassiraja?

In the internet age, handwaving arguments and off the cuff remarks are the order of the day!!
I agree. Rhythm is where Raja has invested in PAzhassi Raja - A bass boost and what you hear is an amazing assortment of different kinds of rhythm patterns - Even the melody song like Kunnaththe which is thematically and tune wise modeled on old gold malayalam hits , innovates high time in the rhythm section. I cannot place even one drum bit in DevD that is as memorable as 'Aalamangalum' end bit or the 'Aadhi ushas first interlude freak drums. DevD is a catchy album that has its finer merits in some really groovy tuning and very innovative arrangements, but nowhere near the thematic and rich brilliance of Pazhassi. It is very fresh music from a fresh music director and someone who is just 3 films old and one has to wait to see what is Amit's mileage. On the other hand, I would take it as a compliment from Normal Man to compare IR with someone who is at the raw phase of peak creativity and even then, DevD's brilliance pales in front of what Raja did during his initial phases.

Bala (Karthik)

21st October 2009, 10:53 AM

OK ... so this is it right? PR was "alright-good", but nowhere near the ranks of Guru. Looking at IR's pipeline, nothing promising either. I wish he breaks his current mold of rhythm patterns and arrangements, and come out with a totally asymmetric album. The only composer to have done it in the recent past, was Amit Trivedi for Dev D.

Any director dare to make IR come up with such an album? Or should he decide otherwise - which BTW I would hate to see him do.
So, DevD had rhythm patterns hitherto unseen? :shock: No way!
[Dev D is, for me, one of the best albums of the year, adhu vera vishayam]

You are the first one to complain about the rhythm (of all things) in PR album! :)

raagas

21st October 2009, 11:54 AM

Digression:

Dev D had few good numbers.Emosional athyachar was not my kind anyway.I liked Yehi Meri Zindagi, Dil Mein jaagi etc. Another album called Gulaal had a number called "Aisi Sazaa" and "Duniya" which were very good. Yes, it would be interesting to see IR do something like that.Or like Vishal Bharadwaj's "O saathi Re" from Omkara. Infact couple of songs from a film called "The Great Indian Butterfly" were also good. I feel the Hindi music scene has improved a lot compared to late 80s and 90s era, in which some hopeless composers dished out just anything.Now,atleast some albums are worth listening.thought not all, some composers are doing decent job and are quality conscious and are not delivering just whatever that sells commercially.
End of Digression:
And in this period,i would like IR to do something good in Hindi too.I am really looking forward to Pa and SRK.

And About PR,The album is outstanding.It is as good as Guru or at times even better (based on my mood, at times :) ).

rprasad

21st October 2009, 08:26 PM

I dont know why you all want IR to do something similar to other MD's. Ir has his own style and signature sound and will do stuff in his own way and that is how it should be . All of sudden you want IR to compose like Amit Trivedi or Vishal . Each MD(atleast the good ones) have their own style. If you look at Hollywood, does John Williams compose like Hans Zimmer or Howard Shore just because thats the current trend? No he still does it in his own style even after so many years and we can instantly identify his music even now. Md's style is shaped by the time and environment under which they grow up along with the inborn talent they possess. Composers like Amit Trivedi or Vishal are products of the environment in which they started work. IR is a product of a different environment and its a tribute to his adaptability that he has navigated so many years and different generations of music tastes and still has people appreciating his music. IR will never ape other composers i think we know that.

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 08:38 PM

rprasad,

Absolutely spot on. 110% agree with you. What he has done in Pazhassiraja is quite new but he has done in his own style. (I read in a Kerala forum one guy mentioning that he thought only 'Odathandil' was in Raja's previous style. Everything else sounded quite new.) It makes no sense comparing composers and wanting Raja to be the 'cool dude'. He has his strengths. I mean, do you think any 'cool dude' could have done Pazhassi. They can just dream.

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 08:41 PM

raagas,

Digression: I do agree with you on the state of Hindi music nowadays. Far better than when Anu Malik, an aging LP, Bappi Lahari and Nadeem Shravan ruled. What prevents me from giving an 100% endorsement is the nagging fear that lot of cool things may not be original.

app_engine

21st October 2009, 08:48 PM

jaiganes

21st October 2009, 09:00 PM

Rhythm is where Raja has invested in PAzhassi Raja - A bass boost and what you hear is an amazing assortment of different kinds of rhythm patterns - Even the melody song like Kunnaththe which is thematically and tune wise modeled on old gold malayalam hits , innovates high time in the rhythm section.

Exactly!

I wonder whether it costs a lot to get this kind of 'bass boost' and any other recording technique used for PR. Why can't IR use for every album?

Or, it is something he wants to deliberately reserve for only some special customers? AFAIK, he wasn't discriminating between clients till 1986 or so. Possibly the cost equations have become different over the years.

I think IR wants to be accessible to newcomers and old timers with a lot of money equally. So he has a minimalist set in prasad studios for newcomers and lowbudget and for anyone who wants grander music - more technology is thrown in.
That said, listening to Nizhal kuthu BGM and one viewing (teary) of Moonam pakkam shows that this guy doesnt need a full blown orchestra or tech studio to create a deep impact. just a base melody and a few variations with little rhythm change is sufficient
like a mom cooking a 'veththa kozhambu' with least ingredients and yet providing a sumptuos taste.

Saagar

21st October 2009, 09:16 PM

In a recent interview in Manorama news ONV has mentioned that popular to contrary beleif that the lyrics of PR are written to preset tunes,only kunnathe konna was written that way, Adhi Ushassandhya was tuned to his poetry!

That makes it even more admirable!

NormalMan

21st October 2009, 09:22 PM

Ok people .... I'm no musical expert. But I have an excellent ear for mucic. That's why my portable player hardly get's filled up. Here is why I place Guru as one of the best albums produced (ever) in IFM,

- The starting rhythm & percussion patterns of Minnaram Manathe. Its all but energy to listen to that starting bit. And that oboe that flow all thru.... konnutaaru
- Starting and ending symphonic bits in Aruna Kiranam
- Mesmerizing Guru Charanam. Not sure what it is, but it flows into you and kindles your soul like any.
- Harp in Minnaram

So these are just the standout pieces in the overall album. To me PR has very very few of such stand out pieces. It just does not stand out for me (atleast).

I feel disappointed to see all bashing Dev D. One of the very best albums to have come out recently and one that got over shadowed bcoz of the Oscars.

Coming back to what is "My" definition of a asymmetrical album is, the one that does NOT follow text book patterns (which IR diligently seem to follow off late), no boring interludes, no use of bad synth, having longer starts and not follow the traditional charanam, pallavi time slicing, new instruments being used, reverse patterns (don;t know how to explain this, but something like "Purple Haze" or "After Midnight" or "Layla" or "Return to Innocence") and so on.

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 09:23 PM

Saagar,

Thanks for the info for that makes me right on both counts :) When I wrote about these songs I had guessed that 'Adi uShas' was tuned to lyrics and 'kunnathe' was written for the tune. Hey, why is there no emoticon for turning up your collar :D

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 09:25 PM

NormalMan,

'Purple Haze', 'Layla', 'After Midnight' are 70s stuff and people are blaming Raja for still being stuck in 80s :lol: So you want him to go back in years.

Sureshs65

21st October 2009, 09:33 PM

NM,

No argument with you as far as 'Guru' concerned. One of the very best in IFM. All I am saying is that people should stop comparing every album that IR comes out with to 'Guru' or 'Tiruvasagam'.

(As far as Dev D is concerned, I do not find much melody overall or the songs having some sort of 'grip' in them for me. I do understand what Amit Trivedi has done but somehow it hasn't worked for me after a lot of listens. It did appeal initially but I don't think this album will be remembered for a long time.)

I still do not buy your textbook rhythm argument as far as PR goes. I have already stated my amazement at the rhythm in various posts. All I can add is that these are rhythms which Raja has originally created. Currently I do not know of any MD who uses his original creation. Many MDs get their asymmetric / non symmetric / reverse symmetric loops from 'commercially available library' and people praise them for that!! This has been one aspect which kiru has posted about many times.

anegan

21st October 2009, 11:30 PM

rprasad,

Absolutely ...style. (I read in a Kerala forum one guy mentioning that he thought only 'Odathandil' was in Raja's previous style. Everything else sounded quite new.) It make... can just dream.

Odathandil is an absolute gem. I haven't heared a song of this class in Tamil. But whenever I hear this song... the charanams remind me o Oho Oho Kikku Erudhe from Padayappa. May be there is some thing in common.

kiru

21st October 2009, 11:31 PM

NM..just like Suresh mentioned..no arguments with you on Guru..absolutely fantastic..PR is mainly for its energy..synth drums are used for high volume sounds (part of IRs experiments with synth drums)...two or more drums tuned to different tones are used in ambum kombom..maybe drums and sticks ..Also, in this album a lot of rhythm instruments have been thrown in ..jingle, triangles, rattles..some electronic sounds also have been added. So it is like a kitchen sink approach..still IR manages to get a coherent sound..aadhi ushaas has that Gladiator soundtrack like feel...
Anyways, I hope we were not mean to you ..just a few fellow IR-fan friendly punches. :-)
RE: Dev D. It is a good enjoyable album..I do not see it very different from Rehman..I guess Rehman has inspired a lot of youngster to make music his way ..it is more of an integration approach..there is a lot of novelty and each album/song has a unique character.. I am pretty sure all these new comers have a big library of chords/loops and are constantly in search of a "new sound". (I see the title track has some counterpoint arrangements, I am sure you are aware how much IR can do in this dept)
This is not the IR way..He is strongly rooted in classic arrangements and techniques and any novelty comes gradually over a period of many films/albums. He does not follow other genres, but by focussing on same techniques/arrangements over a period of time he creates genres. For eg. there is a big bunch of songs with tabla+flute.
This is the only way to CREATE new music...if everybody starts following somebody else there should be somebody else to lead..that is IR..Right now, I think he is better used in films like PR where there is scope of grand and so WCM style music. Also, in movies like cheeni kum which provide scope for classy drum kit/guitar/piano/strings kind of arrangements.
For all youth subject, requiring trendy music, Rehman or younger MDs who follow his style is the way to go..
(BTW, rprasad ..absolutely second you).

app_engine

21st October 2009, 11:55 PM

http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/malayalam/review/9653.html

Another website that tells IR's music could have been better.

Bala (Karthik)

21st October 2009, 11:55 PM

Coming back to what is "My" definition of a asymmetrical album is, the one that does NOT follow text book patterns (which IR diligently seem to follow off late), no boring interludes, no use of bad synth, having longer starts and not follow the traditional charanam, pallavi time slicing, new instruments being used, reverse patterns (don;t know how to explain this, but something like "Purple Haze" or "After Midnight" or "Layla" or "Return to Innocence") and so on.
Excuse the nitpicking:
Purple Haze - Not much of rhythm change. Its a short song starting with powerful riffs in the prelude but from then on the rhythm remains more or less consistent (namakku dhaan IR "Senorita" kuduthaare :) .
"After Midnight", "Return to Innocence" (which is a lift from a Taiwanese song) - Uniform throughout. "Layla" (original version) is a different beast though.

I see where you are coming from, though. You want songs in the classic rock idiom and thats what you have in Dev D (Emotional Hathyachar - shaed of Deep Purple, Hulchul si - Meatloaf meets Cranberries, and two other psychedelic numbers). There are two aspects to this:
1. Films might not be the best forum to follow this because of its traditional limits and more importantly, its driven by the content, context and situation, right? And i find it odd that you should be saying this for an album like PR. Not just because of the genre but because the rhythm sounds fresh. Pallavi/charanam/charanam/pallavi vendaame nu solreengala?
2. Though Dev D is fresh and might even set a trend for others to follow because though there has always been elements of rock in many MD's music, nobody went all the way with the idiom and Amit Trivedi did just that, seen in a bigger context, isn't it just a case of introducing something which has already been done somewhere to our audience/films, where it is seen as "new" "trend setting" etc? Don't get me wrong, i'm not being condescending of the approach (like i said i'm a big fan of Dev D album and classic rock in general) but to hold this against the greatest creator in Indian film industry, IR, is problematic

P.S: Much to the irritation of others here, i've been picking on IR's bad synth etc in most of his current works :lol: so, i share your concern on that!

app_engine

22nd October 2009, 12:04 AM

One thing is quite clear, the songs are absolutely fantastic by any standards.

If someone is reviewing them poorly I won't hesitate to label that it simply shows the class of their taste. May be they were in a haste and didn't give a decent listen. Or they were in inappropriate places in the narration and hence tasted less. (Interestingly, the above link raves about KSC for kunnaththE).

You don't get songs of this class often - from any MD. Period.

If they're talking about BGM, well, let me watch the movie when Detroit gets it and until then reserve my criticism of reviewers :-)
(I have a lot more confidence in that area for IR & his deployment of BSO :-) )

Bala (Karthik)

22nd October 2009, 12:10 AM

Sanjeevi

22nd October 2009, 12:17 AM

Sureshs65

22nd October 2009, 12:23 AM

app_eng,

I have more respect and appreciation for views from people like 'rajaalltheway' than from these reviewers, who seem to have an agenda as a whole.

Read another cryptic review in another site which sort of seconded what rajaalltheway had said in his review.

app_engine

22nd October 2009, 12:44 AM

Sureshs65,

I too think there's some agenda (like 'after all this is a review and I should tell some kuRai or other and not only 100% +ves. Now, what to pick on? Better to pick on a subjective area and make a kozha-kozha comment like could-have-been-better).

In any case, like Plum posted (and also seen on a video in indiaglitz), the kuppan-suppan seem to enjoy the meesic:-)

அ இ ச ம க version (i.e. Thamizh version) is going to be out on Nov 6 it seems.

tvsankar

22nd October 2009, 02:11 AM

If they're talking about BGM, well, let me watch the movie when Detroit gets it and until then reserve my criticism of reviewers :-)
(I have a lot more confidence in that area for IR & his deployment of BSO :-) )
Songs pathi sonna case la vaadhaadalaam. BGM, case not even accepted. Period. (idhellam padam paakkamaleye sollalaam)

Yaaru kandathu. namma Thaaru Nivethida 'war scene' BGM ellam anju masa kozhantha thathakka pithakkanu thavazhura scenukku potta mathiri irukkunu sonnalum solvaru :shaking:

Sanjeevi,
Apadi solla matar.
Ipadi vena solvar..

"BGM na enna nu IR ku theiryuma... thalai vali thanga mudiyalai.. orae sathama sound panni irukar.

Andha period la indha instruments ellam irundhadha....

IR in BGM nalae padam quality poidichi.. etc....

AravindMano

22nd October 2009, 09:23 AM

'Madhdhiya Chennai' audio is releasing today. Saw posters.

crvenky

22nd October 2009, 10:58 AM

Maestro has sung a duet with Shweta under Karthik Raja in the latest Kannada movie - Zamana.

http://www.sensongs.com/Zamana.html

Violin Vicky writes about it:

Came across this interesting song from kannada movie Zamana.. and thought its worth sharing with you...

Music is by Karthik Raaja.. But sung by Raaja...

Karthik Raaja once explained to me how in one of his songs ("Vatta Karuppatti vaangi Tharen" from the movie Neranja Manasu if I recall correctly) he experimented with 5/8 to still fit into 8/8. I understand he is very fond of odd counts and manipulating them in extended cycles.. This is also aptly showcased in his "Netru Vandha kaatru" where the swing waltz is given a very very different treatment... And I have a strong feeling (personal hunch, not based on facts) that the song "Kai veesi Nadakkira kaatre" (Nandhalala) has KR's signature in it.. the way in which it alternates between distinguished phrases of 5/8 and 7/8 within the larger frame of a mere 2/4 cycle...

This Kannada song is in the same category and on one account it even surpasses the other ones that I mentioned.. i.e., rarely you see someone handling Anaagatha eduppu in Kanda Chappu.. Listen to the attached clip. Midway through stanza (from 2:05 to 2:29 and corresponding part from the nex stanza as well), the song starts after 2 full counts of the beat cycle.. This is Dikshithar stuff.. it in fact becomes quite complex to follow.. thanks to the metronome which is sounded by the keyboard constantly almost through out the song one is not at sea and is able to follow..

only other person AFAIK who has done this in film music is (who else but) Raaja himself.. The stanza beginning of "Meetadha Oru Veenai" is indeed anagaadha eduppu in Kanda chaapu..

So Well done Karthik Raaja...

cry_sandiego

22nd October 2009, 11:00 AM

I think comparisons to Guru are inevitable as both have similarities in more than one way ( the movie theme, use of BSO , Malayalam etc..).. I think the credit still goes to IR that PR cannot be compared to any non-IR album..for its class and orchestration..

I think AdhiUshas and Kunnathe are as good as the best in Guru.. but Guru had all the 5 or 6 songs at 10/10...

All said, the Ambum Kombam energy amazes me and is on repeat mode several times the last few days ) and considering that he is 10 years older ( or wiser or more experienced if u want to look at it another way ) this is AWESOME..

Begin Digression: Reminds me of an discussion many many years ago that my cousin and I had regarding experience and youth.. (it started when we were discussing Karpov( much older to Kasparov) vs Kasparov chess matches.. and we were discussing Karpov had so much experience which helps but sometimes it constrains or artificially creates boundaries.. while youth helps explore the unknown... at the end we thought, the experience helps until a point after which it becomes a bit detrimental than help !! ) So I am not sure where IR is on this age/experience/constrained curve !- End Digression.

To me Naan Kadavul, PR , NL and Uliyin Osai are all wonderful treats this year. .. ( of course the karugamani in AM .. for the simplicity yet so hummable and lasting )

Cheers
MSK

MADDY

22nd October 2009, 11:12 AM

wow, discussions on Amit Trivedi .......to dismiss DevD as catchy, readymade loopy and restricitng the boundaries of good music to only one way of composing is truly <dont have words> .....if everything can be done from loops and samples, why arent there 1000 rahmans and 100000 Amit Trivedis......i dont get it guys......i'll install SAP on a server and give it you, who can implement the billing module for my company single handedly? learning SAP and using it is just a practice, but the engineer behind it should get the credit for all the design......

DevD was indeed asymmetric for a indian film composition, much of whose credit has to go to Anurag Kashyap.......i dont understand the nuances in musical experimentation like raaja does in rythms, percussion but even if i understand them, i wouldnt dismiss DevD as something less........it wasnt all classic rock as many of you have put it, even the rock had indian soul to it, i mean listen to hulchul si, it was cranberries type song(as bala pointed out) but the guitar notes in the middle was so reminiscent of santana and it sounded very indian...to give arrangements which is different from IR and Rahman is a achievement in itself and Amit has done that........apart from rock, it also had a poppish pardesi laced with indian instruments, dhol yaara - quintessential north indies folk song and the place where the rythm goes "tori sun, tori sang" at 2:05 is not stuff everyone can do.....

apologies for barging in

Bala (Karthik)

22nd October 2009, 11:26 AM

..it wasnt all classic rock as many of you have put it, apart from rock, it also had a poppish pardesi laced with indian instruments, dhol yaara - quintessential north indies folk song and the place where the rythm goes "tori sun, tori sang" at 2:05 is not stuff everyone can do.....

Yeah, that's fair enough. I must have phrased it better. I just meant to address NormalMan's references to those songs he had quoted w.r.t DevD.
Yes, if one were to summarily dismiss such songs and music (as "oh, thats just picked up from here and there" etc), the obvious kostin is anybody can do it right? I get that point. However, like i said, because this was held against Raaja, andha comparison, etc etc laam vandhudhu...

MADDY

22nd October 2009, 11:33 AM

..it wasnt all classic rock as many of you have put it, apart from rock, it also had a poppish pardesi laced with indian instruments, dhol yaara - quintessential north indies folk song and the place where the rythm goes "tori sun, tori sang" at 2:05 is not stuff everyone can do.....

Yeah, that's fair enough. I must have phrased it better. I just meant to address NormalMan's references to those songs he had quoted w.r.t DevD.

i understood your reply was mainly aimed at Normal man and u didnt talk abt DevD as a whole... :) ....my concern in this discussion is anything thats a bit rahman-like-integrating sounds or using loops and samples is lesser trait-ngra madhiri thinking dhaan........thats ok, i feel good that Amit is being discussed here :D

rajasaranam

22nd October 2009, 12:19 PM

I think comparisons to Guru are inevitable as both have similarities in more than one way ( the movie theme, use of BSO , Malayalam etc..).. I think the credit still goes to IR that PR cannot be compared to any non-IR album..for its class and orchestration..

Not Really Adressed to MSK But one clarification:
Guru - Songs were Recorded @ BSO
PR - Songs were recorded @ Prasad
Now If we are going to compare apples to oranges we will totally miss the point. The news that an Album recorded at Prasad is being discussed in comparison with an album recorded at BSO is amazing. That shows the true class of Raaja the composer and the quality of the songs in PR. Given these ground realities I would rate PR higher than Guru anytime. :)

crvenky

22nd October 2009, 12:50 PM

RS, I think Guru songs were recorded @ Prasad only. IR has not used the entire BSO team, but only 4 instrument players were flown to Chennai for the recording.

Even the BGM was recorded @ Chennai only, which I remember reading about in Paal Nila Padhai. Thats when IR had some akki blisters all over his body.

rooky

22nd October 2009, 09:25 PM

To say we have seen the best from IR in PR for the last few years, is an understatement.To know that the movie is a big hit augurs well for better projects in malayalam for IR.His strike rate in Malayalam is the best compared to other languages.

Though i personally don't worry much about the movie and enjoy IR's music for every movie, somehow deep down i look for better appreciation for IRs' output (He may not care as we all know).

The long pending MathiyaChennai has its audio released today.
http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14916426

Hope IR continues his wonderful run this year with this album too.

Sanjeevi

22nd October 2009, 10:47 PM

Ananda Vikatan carries an artiles about Pa in current issue and it seems Pa is generating much expectations among NI. Pa will be released Nov second week if AV's words are true. As a soundrack I hope a strong contender is on the way to compete with NL, NK and PR and I sincerely hope Pa will win :)

app_engine

22nd October 2009, 11:08 PM

[tscii:0270ac1043]http://indiablogs.searchindia.com/2009/10/19/pazhassi-raja-review-falls-short-but-worth-a-watch

Music by Ilaiyaraaja is passable at best and tiresome at worst.

However, places this part in the "good" category.

A reader (apparently the reviewer in passionofcinema) in his comments :

However, Raja’s background score was nothing short of awesome.. this comes from someone who vouches for Rahman.

Reply of the reviewer (this is really interesting and possibly explains what he feels bestu and worstu)

Music is a highly subjective experience and with all due respect to your opinion I stick to what I said though I would like to clarify that while BG score wasn’t dissappointing, the songs were.

Well, how many songs are actually there on screen?

Also, what more they want in songs in a movie? I think in this word "subjective", people try to hide all their bias :-(

[/tscii:0270ac1043]

Sureshs65

22nd October 2009, 11:18 PM

app_engine

22nd October 2009, 11:38 PM

tvsankar

22nd October 2009, 11:43 PM

app_eng,

What you say is true. Lot of hiding behind, 'it is subjective' thing. When the reviewer thought the BGM was good doesn't mention it but says music passable you can be sure there is a bias. If not, he would have probably said the BGM is good but he was not happy with the songs.

Well, of someone is not happy with 'AdiuShas' and 'kunnathe' he must be a really sad person, isn't it?

Suresh,
SAd person ilai. Music arivu illadha person nu artham.
IR music - Maths madhiri. Maths purinjavan dhan
mahts ai rasika mudiyum.

So dont worry, IR music ai purinjuka mudiyadhavanga nu artham..Ivargalukaga paridhaba padalam...

Sanjeevi

22nd October 2009, 11:52 PM

http://ourqueen-shreyaghoshal.blogspot.com/2009/10/met-my-godfinally.html

This site & the post is quite funny.

What's amusing to me is this boy asking Shreya most of his questions about IR & his family :-)

a_e

I know Nishant through orkut's SG community. He is NI guy who don't understand tamil.. He knows IR only by Shreya's songs :). His dream is

"To be a playback singer and sing my first song with my Goddess Shreya Ghoshal!!!!The song shud have music by Ilayaraja or AR Rahman........oh God.....I am dreaming too much :P"

photos of the said meeting

http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#Album?uid=16800437518975945403&aid=1256105103

rprasad

23rd October 2009, 12:28 AM

tvsankar

23rd October 2009, 12:35 AM

rprasad,
Naan sonnadhu - IR songs - nalla ilai ..
or catchy a ilai - ipadi sorlavangaluku than solren,

Avar music ai understand seidhuka mudiyum....

easy aga.. adhan IR.

adhaiyum thaandi

rasika mudiyadhavanga than

Negative comments solla mudiyum......
avangalukaga than sonnen.....

app_engine

23rd October 2009, 12:57 AM

There are different kinds of expectations for listeners / viewers when it comes to film music.

For example, in one of the blogs a person compares PR score with Gandhi score and says there's no great score like the one we see for dhaNdi yAthirai (or what he saw / heard in Bose by ARR, no native instrument used, simbly imitates hollywood sounds etc).

I guess some of those who say 'could have been better' possibly went with a preconceived set of expectations and got confused that IR did something different from their requirements. (Well, some definitely have an anti-IR bias and will write that way but others may be genuine in their expectations too).

OTOH, someone who had been listening to IR's music for years can definitely rate songs and BGM the most accurately, IMSO. After all, this group had been seasoned to getting surprises, above-expected, below-expected, expected etc over the years and can easily rate them on their merits relative to the requirements, be it songs or BGM.

And this club members -obviously most who frequent this thread at this time period belong to this - definitely need no "extra expertise" to rate IR's output :-)

Well, I definitely fancy myself to be in this club (without any formal musical training, at the max can somwhat read sheet music thanks to the lessons by a friend) :-) However, heard 1000's of hours of all kinds of music - not just IR but a huge variety of others (with limited all-time non-IR favourites)

And to me, the songs are AWESOME!

Among the best that I've heard in the last few years from TFM / MFM and can easily compete with whatever other music that I hear day to day!

Waiting to watch the movie (ofcourse with open mind) to rate the BGM...

kiru

23rd October 2009, 05:22 AM

I think some people have a misconception IR's music/songs are too complex and needs musical knowledge to appreciate them. This is far from the truth. The fact is that IR has composed innumerable songs which are catchy/Melodious and can be enjoyed by the common masses without the need to analyze them with a musical brain. In my opinion though he has done some complex songs(in the sense of needing to understand them before enjoying them) their numbers are not that many. His innovations are subtle and even when he does a fusion sort of composition the song remains simple and it does not stick out as is the case with some of the songs now. Infact i have heard from reliable sources that IR always prefers his songs to be simple and match the situation most of the time. Infact one well known instance is during Karthik Raja's first song , the Pandian title song in the Rajini movie, IR reportadly told Karthik to make the song simple and not complicate it too much(this is after Karthik initially composed it and presented it to IR).
HAving said that IR has done some complex songs which take time to understand and enjoy. Coming to PR songs, I do not consider any song complex, the Kunnathe song has some interesting twists in the charanam but the basic song is simple and soulful, same with Adhi Ushash song and others. The songs in this movie are driven by situation as well and there is no scope to make a catchy song just for the sake of it. So lets get rid of this notion that IR's music is only for the select few.

Well mostly true with some caveats. Almost all songs of IR have some complexity here and there. Even though we might think of kunnathE as a good indian melody, a tension building counterpoint with staccato strings is thrown in with a sad violin solo in the prelude. You can hear these sort of preludes or interludes in many, many IR songs. Unless you try to match onscreen visuals with the music, you will miss this. Sometimes people hear only the main voice (for eg,. the sad violin alone in the kunnathE prelude) and will promptly ignore the rest, even though the other voice would have created the effect. Same goes for the bass lines and chord progressions. It is like salt - you do not know it is there (as long as it is in the right amount) but it is there making the food tasty for you. So in a way a little bit of awareness of his style will go a long way in appreciating IR's music. Maybe this is what Usha is trying to convey.

Re: "The fact is that IR has composed innumerable songs which are catchy/Melodious and can be enjoyed by the common masses without the need to analyze them with a musical brain. "
This audience is the one that has moved on ..they cannot distinguish much and are not loyal to any particular MD.

Fliflo

23rd October 2009, 07:07 AM

"Mathiya Chennai" Audio Released

http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/tamil/gallery/Events/19825.html :P

Hulkster

23rd October 2009, 07:20 AM

Very interesting orchestration for this album. Synth is certainly there but it is mixed in a more "out of the box" style compared to kannukkulle. I am trying hard to grasp his orchestration especially for ilayavayasu pasanga, second interlude is out of the world.

Hulkster

23rd October 2009, 07:33 AM

Unnai Patri Sonnal and Unn Vaazhvey Oru Kathaiyaakalamare amazing melodies :clap: :notworthy: Yezhaikiruntha Ulagam is pathos constructed with amazing use of chorus.

Sureshs65

23rd October 2009, 09:30 AM

Hey Hulk. Why are suddenly talking Greek and Latin. Where is the song list, singer list, listening link etc?

popeye11

23rd October 2009, 09:48 AM

Hey Hulk. Why are suddenly talking Greek and Latin. Where is the song list, singer list, listening link etc?

http://www.sensongs.com/MathiyaChennai.html

Heres the link guys! as hulk pointed out Ilavayasu is interesting Havent listened to the other tracks yet still looping ilavayasu

popeye11

23rd October 2009, 09:50 AM

Tracklisting:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01. Sulli Kuppam Ganapathy - Vijay Yesudas, Tippu & Rahul Nambiar
02. Ilavayasu Pasanga - Vijay Yesudas, Tippu & Rahul Nambiar
03. Unnai Patri Sonnal - Rita
04. Unn Vaalve Oru Kathaiya Kalam - Sadhana Sargam
05. Ellaikkuintha Ulagamendru - Ilaiyaraja
06. Ennda Dai - Vijay Yesudas, Tippu & Rahul Nambiar

Sureshs65

23rd October 2009, 09:52 AM

app_eng,

Very well said. You have sort of fully captured the views that I also have in my mind. While respecting everyone's opinion, all I can say is exactly what you said. I too haven't listened to something like 'Pazhassiraja' for quite some time in film music of any language. Whatever anyone may say today, 'kunnathe' will remain an all time Malayalam classic. I have no doubt about it and 'AdiuShas' will be remembered long whenever any song on freedom is needed.

Reg the BGM, I too am eagerly waiting to see the movie. Hopefully can catch it next week, in case it is still running in Bangalore.

Listening to the songs, I am convinced that 'Alamada' song was also written first and then tuned. The way the song is structured is not what Raja would have done if he had tuned first. Does someone have any info on this? (Another poster earlier had mentioned that 'AdiuShas' was indeed written first and tuned later as I had suspected.)

Sureshs65

23rd October 2009, 09:56 AM

Thanks popeye for the link.

Unfortunately I will off my system for atleast half a day or more now :( Will get back and listen to the songs.

rajasaranam

23rd October 2009, 12:23 PM

especially for ilayavayasu pasanga-second interlude is out of the world. Thalai Semma Kalakkal :notworthy:

krish244

23rd October 2009, 12:43 PM

My first impressions:

Sullikuppam: IR trademark catchy tune and good singing. Rhythm instruments are simple and effective. Bass lines are clearly heard.

Enda Dei: The beginning dialogues reminds Vanitha mani (Vikram) song. Overall, the song did not impress me much.

Ila Vayasu: The prelude has a nice mix of rhythm structure and the pallavi tune goes nice with it. First interlude did not impress me (sax part of fine), but the second one has an very cool and interesting amalgamation/conversation of different genres represented by guitar and violin.

Unnai patri: When the tune started (first two lines), I was not expecting much, but the tune along with the music transformed into a nice melody. Highly soothing interludes (those piano like sounds are great) and charanam portions. Nice orchestration and bass usage all along. Rita is fine, but I wish Shreya Ghoshal had sung this song.

Un Vaazhve: Nice tune, especially the charanams with those twists and turns. Again, highly impressed with the quality of interludes (synth is a bit evident in 2nd interlude).

Ezhaikku: Apart from IR's familiar singing style, I feel overall this song has more than a typical IR pathos song. The chorus portions and a more interesting second interlude (those violin layers) adds more value.

thanks,

Krishnan

svarman

23rd October 2009, 05:29 PM

This year has been a bonanza for me so far!!

Naan Kadavul, Valmiki, Nadhalala, Jegan mohini, Kannukulle, Chal chalein, Bhagyadevatha, Bellagara and the sweetest off all Pazhassi Raja.
I have not heard like what I have done recently with Pazhassi Raja, for ages and I am mesmerised!

Every time I listen to the songs, tears swell up in my eyes; imagining the pain the great composer would go through, trying to come out with these gems, like a labour maternal pain!
Just doing his karma for whose sake?
We should be so fortunate to have a great composer like Raja, in this world, in India and in Tamil Nadu!
For me, he is the greatest and unfathomable!!

Hail IR and his music!

Suren

krish244

23rd October 2009, 07:32 PM

Was wondering that the guitar-like pattern that accompany the first two lines of pallavi of "unnai patri" song was familiar. I think the technique is similar to the one used in the pallavi of "kooda varuviya" song. The song pattern as a whole too has some similarities to "kooda varuviya" song.

thanks,

Krishnan

ARUNPRAKASHKRISHNAN

23rd October 2009, 07:36 PM

any news about nandalala

irir123

24th October 2009, 01:04 AM

any news about nandalala

Nandalala - ayngran has given us all 'alvaa' !

MumbaiRamki

24th October 2009, 08:51 AM

Unnai patri sonnal is simply superb , just short of his magic in Niram Pirthu , esp towards the end of charanam it gets monotonous, otherwise a trademark raaja tune !

Illa pasanaga is better than what i expected , with its interludes epecially but with the words maina , jigina made me shake my head :(

Un vazhve made me opinion-less with excellent interludes, charanam balancing the boring synth and inane pallavi/anu pallavi lyrics.

Sullikupam ganapathy is passable, nothing worthy and enda dai with its damn synth , interesting bass lines didn't impress me on the first listen.

Finally our raaja croons yezaikaithe with the lyrics fitting to T and fitting to a sethu kind of climax aptly. !

As an album , not in the league of 2009 , but of 2008.

cry_sandiego

24th October 2009, 10:47 AM

2nd interlude of Ilavayasu -- 2.49 to 3.19 -> :notworthy:

cry_sandiego

24th October 2009, 11:18 AM

Lyrics - So So !! for all songs :-(

By the way, Is this a Prakash Raj directed movie?

Plum

25th October 2009, 12:59 AM

Pazhassi raja paarthachu. Overall positive impact. Bgm is excellent, if stil not in guru league.
Songs integrate beautifully on big screen. Kunnathe brings tears in pride as every nuance of the situation, characterisation and feelings are brougt out. Shamelessly cried and used hand kerchief in bubli.

Worthy effort

writeface

25th October 2009, 05:53 AM

Plum,

Great to hear about it.

How about the "ambum kombum" song? Is it retained in the movie or left out?

Gokul.

Hulkster

25th October 2009, 08:24 AM

Revisited Unnai Patri Sonaal and Un Vaazhvey Oru Kathaiyagalaam. The two songs have jazzy touches all over. But the thing is they both have a very soothing effect on the ears. :notworthy:

Hulkster

25th October 2009, 08:26 AM

Lyrics - So So !! for all songs :-(

By the way, Is this a Prakash Raj directed movie?

No director is a newcomer, Prakash raj plays a very important role of a film director if i am not wrong.

Plum

25th October 2009, 11:13 AM

Ambum kombum is amputated and is out of focus in an important scene - the tribal chief played by manoj jayan, a huge strength for pazhassi, is betrayed by his own temple priest, and the song plays ambiently in the backgroound as tension builds up with the viewer slowly introduced to the betrayal act and arrival of company soldiers. It doesn't make it beyond the first interlude as a raw action scene takes over. Fine physical performance by jayan and padmapriya.

Sureshs65

25th October 2009, 12:55 PM

Plum,

Lucky you. Looks like it is a difficult thing to get tickets for the movie in Bangalore. And the timings don't help either. Trying to figure out how to watch it.

Can you write some more about the BGM, how it was, how it suited the scenes etc?

Sureshs65

25th October 2009, 01:01 PM

I was listening to 'kunnathe' in the morning and every time I hear I cannot but be amazed by this composition. I have seen youtube video of this song and I can understand how Plum feels. It must be even more wonderful watched in the overall context of the movie and on the big screen.

Sureshs65

25th October 2009, 05:32 PM

I haven't listened to 'Madhiya Chennai' seriously yet but after the first listen my views are very similar to what Mumbai Ramki has expressed. The best two songs are 'Unnai Patri' and the Raja song. The rather ordinary lyrics take away a lot from 'Un Vazhve'. Will need to listen to it a few more times before forming a concrete opinion.

tvsankar

25th October 2009, 06:06 PM

unnai patri sonnal

kaeten. Original sound madhiri - inimaiyana
Sound quality ai feel panren.
Nice sound to our ear......

Sweeeeeeeeet sound in New Synth era.........

Tats IR....

composition - inimel dhan gavanikanam...

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 12:47 AM

'unnai paTri sonnAl' Wow. What a song this is. Just listened to it a couple of times with full concentration. Agree with Usha that the sounds are excellently captured. As Hulk says a very jazzy feel to the whole song and the tune is magical. It is as good as any of the synth driven great female solos that he has given in Malayalam. That I can assure you, is high praise indeed :)

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 12:51 AM

'iLavayasu' The tune is OK. I wouldn't say it is great but the interludes are lovely, especially the second one. You are just stunned, as you would have been many songs earlier, when he suddenly brings in the mridangam, out of the blue and as usual it sounds so very logical once you hear it :)

writeface

26th October 2009, 09:49 AM

raagas

26th October 2009, 12:00 PM

I didnt like Mathiya Chennai songs, except for Unnai Patri Sonnal(pleasant and nice melody) and Unn Vaazhve(to some extent). Rest all are absolutely disappointing and dont appeal to me at all.

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 12:19 PM

raagas,

I personally think that would be the reaction of most people. 'Unnai Patri' is very good. 'Un Vazhve' is let down by rather ordinary lyrics. The other songs don't have much popular appeal.

Having said that I would ask you to listen to the second interlude of 'ilavayasu'. I personally think the song as a whole doesn't match up to this interlude. Also listen to the Raja song and how the chorus is used. I like this song.

I believe that songs like 'enda dei', 'sullikuppam' will be in the hit or miss category. They may catch the fancy of people or they may not. Lot depends on factors like picturization, hero and how the movie does at the box office. (You never could have predicted the success of a song like 'valameenukum'.) There are quite a few Raja songs in recent films in this category of 'fun' or 'kuttu' or 'hero intro' type of songs. A couple of songs in 'Nannavanu', 'Hodadavane' in Prem Kahani, 'rekka katti' in Valmiki, a couple of songs in 'Kannukulle'. Of these, 'hodadavane' was mildly popular in Bangalore. 'rekka katti' was a nice song but went down along with the movie I guess. The 'Kannukulle' songs and 'Nannavane' songs haven't had much of an impact on either the lay listener or on Raja fans.

Having said that I also find a decent amount of experimentation happening in these songs with respect to synth usage and designing newer loops. There are bound to be hits and misses when experiments are on and 'Mathiya Chennai' is probably more of a miss than a hit from the fans perspective. (Of course there are going to be people like Hulk, RS or I who would listen to every song of Raja and feel that there is something in it for us and be satisfied. I am not talking about guys like us.)

raagas

26th October 2009, 02:03 PM

Suresh,

Since i dont understand tamil, i think even Un Vazhve is decent enough for me. Unnai Patri is simply beautiful. And the 2nd interlude of ilavayasu is spectacular for sure. But then, only that piece works for me and i dont think i will listen to whole song to listen to that. I might do that now, but i dont think its going to stay with me.

I am surprised that Kannukkule songs didnt have much impact. Pudhu Pournami was class, ofcourse i did have reservations about the singers used (why do i often have reservations about IR's singer selection). I didnt like the female singers in "Enidhu Enidhu" , "Pudhu Pournami", and even "Kallai Irundhen"(UO). Some flatness in voice seem to be too glaring in these numbers, despite the compositions being simply remarkable.

I am still enjoying Pazhassi Raja which didnt lack anything. Even Valmiki and Prem Kahani were terrific.

If i see all his recent albums, each album had its own stuff to bring in, which somehow caught our, or atleast my fancy. Mathiya Chennai failed to do that. Proof for that is that I am listening to all his recent albums except Mathiya Chennai. But then, Unnai Patri is the sole exception.

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 02:21 PM

raagas,

When I said 'Kannukulle' songs didn't have much I meant the fast beat based songs. 'Pudhu Pournami' and 'Enge Ne Sendralum' did have a good impact with Raja fans. May not be with general public.

As Mumbai Ramki has also said in his post about 'Madhiya Chennai', this album probably doesn't match up to most of Raja's output in 2009. Like you I am still into PazhassiRaja.

raagas

26th October 2009, 04:30 PM

btw... there is lot of Cinema.. Cinema... going on in the lyrics of Unn Vazhve song.. What exactly is happening? :)

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 04:35 PM

raagas,

Looks like the movie is about someone trying to make it big in cinema. (All indications point this movie's fate to be same as that of Valmiki. Lets hope we are wrong!!.) This lady who is singing the song is explaining about cinema and its wicked ways to the hero. The whole song is about cinema, it not being real etc...

raagas

26th October 2009, 06:24 PM

Thanks Suresh for that gist. The tune is so good. It is not a foot-tapping number to have Tinglish lyrics (Tamil-English). The lyricist should have used some imaginative connotations, in tamil itself, to allude to Cinema world, instead of using Cinema so many times. I mean, the usage of english words somehow dont enhance the feel of the melody. if it were a funny song or fast number, it would have gelled well.but too much of Cinema.. happening in it is weird. Good song nevertheless.

krish244

26th October 2009, 06:44 PM

Kannukkulley movie review:

http://www.koodal.com/tamil/movies/reviews/508/kannukulle

"இளையராஜாவின் இசையில் சுகமான ராகங்கள். அந்த ஒற்றை வயலின் காட்சி நரம்புகளை நாட்டியமாடச் செய்கிறது."

thanks,

Krishnan

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 07:11 PM

raagas,

You may be surprised but nowadays the Tamil word for cinema is 'cinema' :lol:

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 07:13 PM

in other words, 'cinema' will not sound like a foreign word to the Tamilian today.

raagas

26th October 2009, 07:34 PM

hahah..thats true.. my idea was not to use tamil meaning of cinema.. but use better connotation..such as may be "colourful illusions" or "starry dreams" or something to that effect, in tamil words. Strange, that i dont understand tamil and here I am commenting about usage of english words in a tamil words and I am even suggesting better options. Ah, reminds me of Richard Bach's quote - "We teach best, what we most need to learn":)

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 07:56 PM

Ah, reminds me of Richard Bach's quote - "We teach best, what we most need to learn":)

No wonder so many of us give suggestions to Raja as to what he should do :lol:

app_engine

26th October 2009, 09:57 PM

Looks like the dust has settled down and with the initial hype getting over, people have started appreciating nicer things - i.e. the BG score of PR. I've just sampled some neutral (means not pro or anti IR) blogs of average movie goers and they seem to say nice things about the score.

Some samples here (a couple are quite interesting) :
http://thotsfor2day.blogspot.com/2009/10/pazhassi-raja.html

So what is great about the movie? It is shot in some beautiful locales, breath taking screen play also the music and most importantly, an amazing script. Alright, its not AR Rahman, we have Illayaraja instead. I am glad we have Illayaraja for a change and he brings in more than the necessary change. He was apt for giving music to such a period film. He still has the charm of striking a chord, he hasn't been disappointing many a times. The sound recording by Oscar winner Resul pookutty adds to the affect of each scene.

http://rajionline.blogspot.com/2009/10/another-classic-for-malayalam-film.html

The songs are all one better than the other.

http://dkaleidoscope.blogspot.com/2009/10/sunday-october-25-2009-kerala-varma.html

Ramnath Shetty - Cinematography / Ilayaraja - Music/ Rasool - Sound(4.5 / 5)
It may be look unusual to rate audio and visual together. But this time I was treated to a perfect jugal-bandhi of Cinematography, Music and Sound Mixing which is rarely seen in Indian movies.
Malayali is always mesmerized with Ilayaraja magician. But this time he brings in a lot more as an audio treat than he normally does in Malayalam films. The back ground score is absolute treat and blends in naturally with the cinematography.

http://musingsspace.blogspot.com/2009/10/pazhassi-raja-epic-retold.html

The music didn't hold on to my interest when I first saw the promos but in the movie it just blends and adds on to the story telling.

http://dewdropdeepa.blogspot.com/2009/10/pazhassi-raja.html

Ilayaraja has scored the music and has done a fabulous job. I am no music whiz to talk about his music and do not have any words to explain the beauty of every single word written for the songs. Standing ovation to the lyricist of a particular song which had this line: I can see your face in the flame of every lamp lit in this house. The Malayalam line was more flowery and nicer. Kanya's face glowed in love and the light; it is quite a sight, very difficult to achieve through any amount of lighting effects or computer stunts. Less dialogues and more of silence, this seemingly celestial beauty complimented the song very well.

Sureshs65

26th October 2009, 11:34 PM

app_eng,

I also read a couple of posts in IR Yahoo forum where people had good things to say. Praveen who writes some nice posts had written that the score was superb but in some places the sounds were loud and eclipsed the score.

I need to see the movie soon. Still playing all songs every day, more than once.

app_engine

26th October 2009, 11:55 PM

Sureshs65,
Hopefully you'll watch in a movie hall with decent sound equipment.

As per this report, Resool is upset that all his hardwork is not appreciated by most viewers as 90% of the theaters in the state lack proper sound equipments it seems :

http://www.cinemakottaka.com/index.php/cinema-news/854-2009-10-23-17-53-24.html

If the sound effects man feels his work is not being appreciated enough, how much more so it is for the musician...

Sureshs65

27th October 2009, 09:36 AM

app_eng,

Thanks for the link, though I couldn't understand anything :)

I get the gist of what Rasool is saying but as you say, how should the musician feel. I remember reading one post in Violin Vicky's blog where he wonders why Raja took so much trouble to give all those great bass lines, for it is very much evident that the majority of listeners don't know or care about bass. I guess Raja must be one music director who has more than one reason to be upset about how his compositions come to screen. The picturization, the sound in the theater, music knowledge of the audience etc etc. But he nevertheless continues and we must be grateful for that!!

raagas

27th October 2009, 11:52 AM

I guess Raja must be one music director who has more than one reason to be upset about how his compositions come to screen. The picturization, the sound in the theater, music knowledge of the audience etc etc. But he nevertheless continues and we must be grateful for that!!

Absolutely. Rightly said. Yet, among the components you have mentioned, i think IR has himself to blame when it comes to the picturisation aspect. Because picturisation depends on the skill of director and worth of script.There are 100s of films,which do not merit IR's score.Ofcourse, IR might have given good songs,but if he didnt waste good songs in such way,things would have been different.

Yesterday i was watching the outstanding number "Ada Machaa" from Chinna Veedu.Such a brilliant composition and picturisation was so embarrassing.Oh there might be even more worse ones.

Yet, I agree that IR must be the most unluckiest composer, when it comes to outstanding songs with bad picturisation or lack of knowledgeable audience etc.

krish244

27th October 2009, 05:03 PM

Suryakanthi is getting ready for release soon.

http://entertainment.oneindia.in/kannada/top-stories/2009/chaitanya-suryakanti-release-271009.html

"Maestro Ilayaraja has scored music for Suryakanti. Yogaraj Bhat, Jayant Kaikini and K Kalyan have penned the lyrics and Shreya Ghoshal, Kunal Ganjawala, Karthik and others have sung them."

Can we hope the audio to be released soon then!

thanks,

Krishnan

krish244

27th October 2009, 05:13 PM

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/music/Ilaiyaraaja-unplugged/articleshow/5167592.cms

IR will be doing shows in Bombay (Jan 26th), Delhi and Chennai in collaboration with the Hungary Symphony Orchestra. Laszlo Kovacs will also be part of it. It says he will be performing TIS pieces. I wish he performs other stuff too. There are plethora of his songs which can effectively utilize the symphony orchestra. Lets wait and see.

thanks,

Krishnan

cry_sandiego

27th October 2009, 07:34 PM

Hi, Sorry for catxhing up late, can someone point me to a link with Prem Kahani Songs?

thx
MSK

njv

27th October 2009, 07:36 PM

Going by the reputation of the organizer and the fact that it is with RPO (instead of IPO/MPO), it raises many questions. Would be extremely surprised if this happens on Jan 26 ( u guys kidding, with all security concern etc!!!)

Wanted to buy Namrata Ke Saagar (DVD/CD). Looked around in many places in Chennai and Bangalore. Couldnt find anywhere!!! Any idea where I can get this?

app_engine

27th October 2009, 08:03 PM

njv,

Where did you read that this is with RPO? (i.e. Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, the one that played for the recording of IR's symphony that never got released).

The news report only talks about the Hungarian one (Budapest Symphony Orchestra) and they have been involved in a number of IR projects already (kAlApAni, lajjA, hEy rAm, guru, TbI, nandhalAlA, pazhassi rAjA). Also, some of them have reportedly travelled to India recently for film assignments. So, it's not something unimaginable.

Plus the fact that most symphony orchestras are languishing for work under current conditions (higher cost compared to modern equiment based music and thus less patrons, economy still in recovery mode etc), it won't be surprising to me if they visit India to do on-stage shows.

Also, with the recent spurt in the economic growth / cost of living in India, the costs of such events won't be that unmanagable as in the past (i.e. if you're reminded of the MJ show disaster etc). In other words, the average price that people can pay for tickets has gone up by leaps and bounds. (I read on the web that people are easily spending Rs 200 per movie ticket in city multiplexes and even in smaller towns the cost of ticket has gone up considerably but people are still able to pay. Gone are the days when a movie crossing 10 cr was called all time bb -I remember the list in India Today with the likes of Sholay once upon a time with this amount - now it seems like an average star's TF movie costs that much). That way, cost of bringing some foreign troupe is not as disproportionately unmanageable as it was a decade back.

The only iffy thing about the whole concert stuff is on who is managing the program (i.e.organizers).

If it's some professional group like star tv, it'll sail like a breeze (with enough hype creation etc) and going by the works that BSO has done for IR, the quality will be phenomenal and not something to be worried about.

The promoter info is not clear from the above news link. Does it get mentioned anywhere else ?

anegan

27th October 2009, 08:45 PM

Sureshs65

27th October 2009, 09:30 PM

MSK,

Here is a link to Prem Kahani songs.

http://www.sensongs.com/KannadaSongs.htm

writeface

27th October 2009, 09:52 PM

Who is this Pankaj Kapur? My exposure to Hindi films is quite minimal. Any idea what kind of movie "Mausam" is? Thanks.

Gokul

raagas

28th October 2009, 01:38 AM

writeface,

pankaj kapur is known to tamilians also. he played the role of a terrorist who kidnaps arvind swami in Maniratnam's Roja.

writeface

28th October 2009, 04:39 AM

Raagas, Thanks for the info.

I have selective amnesia when it comes to movies like Roja:-)

Gokul

kiru

28th October 2009, 06:19 AM

Raagas, Thanks for the info.

I have selective amnesia when it comes to movies like Roja:-)

Gokul
Even I forget but everytime I watch a DVD from New LIne Cinema (like Jackie Chan's First Strike) I get reminded :-)

cry_sandiego

28th October 2009, 09:34 AM

Thanks Suresh.

csramasami

28th October 2009, 11:21 AM

After reading Big B's blog, I am a littlle bit upset to know that in the last 2 days, 2 songs (including a Title song) were recorded for "Paa" with the music director being Aadhesh Srivastav.

Already somebody has written that Shreya Goshal told that her songs were recorded earlier for Paa but cancelled.

Only Balki can confirm what is going on

Hope IR + Adesh both are music directors for the film.

rajaalltheway

28th October 2009, 12:15 PM

The Big B blog says "studio OF Aadesh Shrivatsva".Hope and pray that Ayya used his studio for recording.Earlier the Pratap pothen-Mohanlal malayalam film was recorded at Navketan,Mumabai Express at empire etc

krish244

28th October 2009, 12:43 PM

[tscii:d9101c5364]It says Amitabh went to Aadhesh's recording studio to record the songs for "PAA". Don't know if Aadesh composed the songs or he has arranged the songs (as IR, according to recent news items, is out of town/country). I actually wish that only IR is the composer for the movie. Need clarification on this.

Yes, even I read that Shreya sung songs were repeatedly recorded and deleted from the movie. The below blog post says that:

http://ourqueen-shreyaghoshal.blogspot.com/2009/10//pazhamet-my-godfinally.html

"I asked her “How it has been recording for Ilayaraja so far”?

She said “He is the God of Indian Musicians,though he is very strict.Whenever he enters the studio,everyone gets silent.

I asked if she has sung in Balki’s Pa for Ilayaraja?

She said,many songs were recorded and many were deleted again and again from the movie.She may or may not have songs in this movie.

I asked her about future offerings with Ilayaraja.

She didn’t remember much but said she has sung one or two songs in Pazhassi Raja(Hindi Version)."

thanks,

Krishnan[/tscii:d9101c5364]

raagas

28th October 2009, 01:14 PM

csramasami

28th October 2009, 02:40 PM

Hope IR + Adesh both are music directors for the film.

I dont hope that. I cant even imagine taking/seeing those 2 names together. Its like saying John Williams and Britney Spears are working together. Will be terribly disappointed if IR agreed to it or if Balki thought Adesh was a replacement for IR.

Balki will never think of it ! :think: But Others may do that under certain circumstances. This being AB's own production.

Krishnan :
Quote
It says Amitabh went to Aadhesh's recording studio to record the songs for "PAA". Un quote

I also wished that way. But Amithab praises Adesh for the songs in the subsequent lines. :frightened:

Let us wait and watch.

Sureshs65

28th October 2009, 02:49 PM

I would second raagas here. Aadesh and Raja cannot be spoken of at the same level. Having said that, from the reports it looks like recording was done at Aadesh's studio and not that Aadesh has composed the songs.

raagas

28th October 2009, 03:20 PM

But how can any recording happen during IR's absence. Ideally, IR takes care of start to finish right, composing to executing/recording to supervising (mixing and stuff).

My personal opinion: Aadesh is not even half good as any decent Bombay-based composer today.I just hope IR doesnt have anything to do with him.

Sureshs65

28th October 2009, 03:55 PM

CSR,

Sounds confusing no doubt but what I cannot fathom Aadesh being a part of the project. Especially since he is no longer a major factor in HFM, as raagas says. I do hope Raja has nothing to do with Aadesh. Lets wait and see how things unfold.

AravindMano

28th October 2009, 04:34 PM

Amithab praises Adesh for the songs in the subsequent lines. :frightened:

:shock:

jaiganes

28th October 2009, 04:48 PM

IR e walkout pannittaaro ennamo?

sivasub

28th October 2009, 05:00 PM

I am not surprised as apparently Aadesh is the favourite MD of AB. That said, I pray that IR remains the MD

ramk1

28th October 2009, 06:26 PM

did they think that IR is not the right person to do music for a movie in Hindi at this time?. Balki being from the advt field may have thought that, he need to reach more with his music. God knows what happened between him and IR.

rajasaranam

28th October 2009, 06:35 PM

:shock: I know Balki Would never do this and Suspect Amitabh/Abhisekh behind this. Now that the movie shooting & Post Production is almost complete the Bachan family is taking an upper hand over Balki is what my gut feeling is. AB writes about Title song being recorded in his own voice and goes about praising Aadesh for his other compositions.

She said,many songs were recorded and many were deleted again and again from the movie.She may or may not have songs in this movie. This can never happen with IR. Hope Balki is/will 'trying'/'try' to resolve the issue. :cry:

But reading between lines from both the blogs I've lost hope. Fair enough - We now know why Raaja was reluctant to work with the North Indians! Yeah I dont care if the 'amits' (http://twitter.com/the_amit) feel offended.

raagas

28th October 2009, 06:50 PM

RS,

The fact that AB likes Aadesh is different. But AB likes IR also well and he himself said so in couple of interviews, about Cheeni Kum and Paa. Secondly, Balki said that he plans to transport some tamil songs into Hindi, in Pa. So the deletions which shreya Ghoshal referred to might be the 'trial & error' sessions to see what works in Hindi and what doesnt.
I think Balki might have thought about some promotional song or title song and AB might have suggested Aadesh for it (since IR is unavailable). Strangely AB, is known for his professionalism and lot of actors/film-makers praise him for that.So i doubt if AB wanted IR to be replaced altogether. It must be some additional song or something like that.

cry_sandiego

28th October 2009, 10:25 PM

Guys,

Still trying very hard to get over PR songs.. listen to it atleast 2-3 times a day ( Aaddi Usha, Kunnathe keep figthing for the top spot.. one day it is Aadhi Usha but then the same evening when i listen to Chitra's soothing melody, i change my mind but not too long before the haunting interludes of Aadhi Usha take over that.. ).. It's been sometime for me to get this feeling of 2 IR songs from the same album competing for repeat listens..

The other song that is running a distant 3rd this week is the "Puthu Pournami" song from Kannukulle.. I seem to have taken a liking to the female singer's( Darshini Kobi is what the credits say ) thamizh pronounciation.. has a batter thamizh touch compared to other singers..

வல்லினங்களை மகவும் நன்றாக உச்சரிக்கிறார். வாழ்த்துக்கள்.

Especially these days, pronouncing thamizh right is considered so much out of fashion.

( now do not pick on my tamil spelling as i am just getting used to the tamil fonts i just installed :-)

Cheers
MSK

app_engine

28th October 2009, 10:53 PM

( now do not pick on my tamil spelling as i am just getting used to the tamil fonts i just installed :-)

I've been using the "Tamil TypePad" of the hub (you see the link in the "post a reply" screen just below the box where we type) for quite a while now. It's very good and doesn't need installation of anything :-)

BTW, I tried once again to listen to the 'pudhu pourNami nilavukaL' after a couple of regular hubbers (the knowledgeable thumburu & the old faithful Sanjeevi) posted something good here, but had to skip again once the male voice comes in :-(

எங்கே இருந்து தான் இப்படி சொதப்பல் ஆண் பாடகர்கள் தமிழுக்கு (குறிப்பாக ராசாவுக்குன்னு) வந்து சேர்றாங்களோ:-(

Also IR does not play around with some electronic stuff to mask their inabilities , which is another minus. If some "multiply the voice" (e.g. "jannal kAtRAga vA" in swAsamE of thenAli) kind of trickery is employed, these so-called-singers can still be sahikkable. Since that's not done, he ends up sounding too feminine, without any emotions etc. Total turn-off!

Sanjeevi

28th October 2009, 11:40 PM

reg pudhu pournam male singer,

I liked him only in two songs IlankAthu Veesuthey and Suttum Vizhi sudare. Yes raja is not raja for choosing singers now a days. I hate tippu, sriram parthasarathy and some singers in IR songs.

cry_sandiego

28th October 2009, 11:49 PM

ணன்ட்ரி அப்ப்_எஙினெ.

This is what i got when i tried " Nandri App Engine " :) I guess i am still not used to the key mapping .. seems totally different than Anjal/Azhagi.

Back to the puthu pournami song, the male voice did not bother me much, though it was not very good.. It was like Hariharan singing Nandhavana kuyile ( not sure if you remember this song from Ponnu veettu karan where there is a IR version as well as a Hari version )..

I remember an incident that someone close to IR quoted him as saying during the recording " Enna Hari, Balu'va koopidattumaa? and Hari replying, "illa sir, naane try panren "

Cheers
MSK

app_engine

29th October 2009, 12:05 AM

ணன்ட்ரி அப்ப்_எஙினெ.
This is what i got when i tried " Nandri App Engine " :) I guess i am still not used to the key mapping .. seems totally different than Anjal/Azhagi.

:)

wanRi = நன்றி

(only the 'w' has to be learnt, small n / capital N for the other two is pretty regular. Similarly small r and capital R)

google's indic transliterate is also pretty phonetic and nice!

Sanjeevi

29th October 2009, 12:09 AM

Hi use google transliteration (http://www.google.com/transliterate/indic/TAMIL) to type tamil, the simplest way

app_engine

29th October 2009, 12:10 AM

Hi use google transliteration (http://www.google.com/transliterate/indic/TAMIL) to type tamil, the simplest way

I edited my post just in time to post before you :-)

writeface

29th October 2009, 02:45 AM

MSK and all:

Another option is:

http://software.nhm.in/products/writer

It is very easy to use.

Gokul.

cry_sandiego

29th October 2009, 03:37 AM

Gokul, thanks. I use Azhagi and it seems to work pretty well for me across all the apps i use ( Skype, Yahoo IM, Office , Blogs etc.)

App_engine, Curious why the Tamil Type pad would use W instead of N for na? ( IP? )

Back to Darhsini Kobi, any other songs of her?. I want to check if her tamil pronounciation is good always or the Kannukulle song was by chance :-) - I am still smitten by the lines "1.58 - 2.17" .. see how much she stresses the த் ம் ர் etc..

thanks
MSK

writeface

29th October 2009, 03:57 AM

MSK

About the song: The singer's tamizh is okay but the voices don't emote. Imagine how it would be if SJ and SPB had sung it. That is the reason I am not too keen on this song.

In any case, I love the unnai paRRi in MC. What a lovely song!

Gokul.

cry_sandiego

29th October 2009, 04:07 AM

Gokul,

My grudge too about not having around SJ/SPB.. but what can we do.. All those lilting duets of SPB/SJ - Have a long playlist on my iPod just for SPB/SJ ( 1980-1990) - what a pair or shd i say trio ( SPB/SJ/IR)

-BTW, talking of SJ ( My all time fav female playback singer ) i remember all the heated debates that i had with my cousin when i was young whose claim was that but for SJ, IR would not have reached the heights he did in the 70/80's ) - But I did not accept and was pointing "Enga Ooru Kaavakaaran" as an example of how he can provide great songs using PS as well ( EOK had all songs by PS and that too all of them being pure folk which is not PS's forte ! ) - But now i see his perspective :-(

But SJ i can agree due to her age - but Whenever i see SPB sing in some TV shows where he is either a judge or a guest, I wonder why IR cannot still use him atleast for 1 song in a movie ( but something tells me that their relationship has gone sour ( big surprise given IR's personality ) as i can see SPB being very restrained whenever he talks bout IR -- that's my personal conjecture/opinion and not backed by any facts )

Gokul, i have not given MC a repeated listen after just quickly browsing thru all songs.. Will do so this weekend.

Cheers
MSK

Bala (Karthik)

29th October 2009, 05:05 AM

( but something tells me that their relationship has gone sour ( big surprise given IR's personality ) as i can see SPB being very restrained whenever he talks bout IR -- that's my personal conjecture/opinion and not backed by any facts )

:shock:
Enna ippadi sollipteenga? Umm nu oru vaartha sollunga, at least 3 videos link kudukkaren, where SPB has gone all out in talking about Raaja. And 2005 Jaya TV concert paatheengala, IR and SPB on stage? :)

Asianet la oru show la SPB sings "Ilaya Nila" after the song he starts speaking about Raaja... and TWICE, in the middle of his "speech" he goes back to humming the guitar ludes..avaralaye control panna mudiyala... he is crazy about the man and his music :)

writeface

29th October 2009, 05:18 AM

MSK,

Talking of SJ.. we're running the risk of giving our age away here:-)
I do recall exchanging posts with you about SJ.. few years ago!

Gokul

writeface

29th October 2009, 05:20 AM

MSK,

Even this year SPB sang for IR in the kannada movie "nannavanu".

I attended SPB/Chitra concert in the bay area last year - SPB was heaping praises on IR.

Gokul.

cry_sandiego

29th October 2009, 08:42 AM

Gokul,

yeah.. yeah.. Too bad we are over 25 now ;-) .. and that is in hex !!

Guys,

Like i said, i do not follow other languages of as much as i do tamil and so felt that not many songs of SPB under IR. As for my thought about SPB-IR relation ship could be wrong.. but what i felt was in earlier interviews ( early in the sense - well before 2000 ) i have seen SPB being very candid and sort of un-restrained when talking about IR - both abt their good old days and IR's talents. ( for example, he stated IR was/is THE best in India, noone does the entire thing ( composing, orchestration, recording etc) other than IR and on those lines etc,. ) But i did not get that feel when i watched him talk on a few occasions ( post 2000 ) - One was in the IR - Andrum/Indrum/Endrum show ( in 2005? he said IR was one of the best in India who can do the entire thing by himself ) - Same in a few TV shows where he and Kamal were talking a lot about thier songs together ( and over 99% of them were IR songs) but Kamal was going ga ga over IR, but SPB i could see a very restrained remarks about IR.

Once again, i may be reading too much into these but like i said, that's my guess.. Sorry if i started something out of nothing.

But IR being IR ( people who know him/me know what i mean ) I would not blame SPB for that even if it were true

Gokul, Started on MC but read a news about Ajanta bagging some aaward, so i am now on it..

Cheers guys
MSK

Sureshs65

29th October 2009, 09:43 AM

MSK,

My feeling is that SPB not being used is more the sign of times than sign of any strained relationships. In a very recent Telugu program, 'Jummandi Naadam' Balu was heaping praise on Illayraja and how the Bombay artists were in raptures when they recorded 'Sundari' from Dalapathi.

Nowadays it has become more of a fashion _not_ to use SPB or Chitra much. This is true for all music directors including those who are close to and like these singers. Vidyasagar for example. My guess is Raja is doing as per the current market demands and introducing new singers. The only problem, as app_eng pointed out, is his insistence on not modifying these voices electronically. That gives us a clear idea of the talent of the singer, which unfortunately, isn't much!!

Coming back to 'Pudhu Pournami', I love it inspite of the male singer. This and 'Enge ne sendralum' are excellent compositions. As is 'Unnai Patri Sonnal' from Madhiya Chennai.

writeface

29th October 2009, 10:26 AM

MSK,

After your post about Pudhu PourNami I listened to the song carefully. The female singer does sound like a "kalavai" of SJ and Sadhana Sargam. When I listened to her voice my mind wandered to SJ's "rAmanin mohanam". It is a decent song, but these singers sing like machines.

I am beginning to like the "vaanampaadigaL" song a lot. There is so much energy in the charanam!

I keep going back to Pazhassi Raja - every song is a gem. The intro bit to Adhi Ushas - the rising and falling sounds and most notably the pauses create quite a sensation in the listener and set up the stage for the most perfect song from IR in the recent times.

Gokul.

vssathish

29th October 2009, 10:38 AM

[tscii:4934178c76]Hi Folks

Visit the URL and read the article

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/30/2009102920091029021624843d0ee75ae/Music-magic.html

It says Raaja sent the song from Chennai to Adhesh to record it in Mumbai. It also says Adhesh is once a drummer in Raaja's troupe. The song has come out very well

---------------

Music magic

Amitabh Bachchan effortlessly sang the title song of Paa in a child’s voice

We bet you’ve never heard anything like this before. Literally. On Tuesday, Amitabh Bachchan recorded the title song for Balki’s Paa in the voice of a 12-year-old and that too without the help of technology.

Music director Aadesh Shrivastava says, “I thought I would initially record the song in Amitji’s normal voice and later use technological enhancement and modify it to make it sound like a child’s. However, Amitji was firm that I wouldn’t have to do anything of that sort and that he will sing in a child’s voice without any help. He went on to do just that.”

Aadesh, who handled the daunting task of recording music maestro Ilaiyaraaja’s tune in Amitabh’s voice, adds, “It is originally a tune created by Raja sir (Ilaiyaraaja). Normally, I’d never even dream of touching his tunes but I have worked as a drummer for him on Sadma (1983) and he sent this song from Chennai for Amitji to sing it in Mumbai.”

Aadesh predicts that the song will be an instant hit with children. “Amitabh does not sound like a grown-up man imitating a child. Don’t ask me how he has managed to do it. I just sat there stunned.”[/tscii:4934178c76]

Sureshs65

29th October 2009, 10:47 AM

Sathish,

Thanks for the detective work. I guess lot of people have their doubts cleared now :D

AravindMano

29th October 2009, 10:51 AM

[tscii:527f9aa6f0]
Music director Aadesh Shrivastava says

:?

Normally, I’d never even dream of touching his tunes

:? Raja voda tune a VeRum record paNNa maadhiri theriyalayae :roll: I guess he worked on the tune!

ore kuzhappamaa irukke!

[/tscii:527f9aa6f0]

raagas

29th October 2009, 10:54 AM

Thanks a lot Sathish, for that link.

Still, I am unable to come to terms with the fact that there will be an ilaiyaraaja song, recorded, without his involvement. Composition might be his, but still, Ilaiyaraaja isnt about composition alone. He is also about arrangements, the meticulous pieces, etc. If a song is recorded without his supervision, the song will definitely lack something - called Ilaiyaraaja touch, in its overall execution.

vssathish

29th October 2009, 11:25 AM

Raagas

Since Raaja is in Budapest, he would have requested Amit/Balki to use Adhesh services to record the song.

Raaja would have sent the complete song notations and Adhesh job would have been to record the song and make sure amitabh sings as per the tune. Also amitabh is in mumbai and probably he is busy and old to travel to chennai and record the song.

Anyway raaja would review the final output and make corrections if necessary.

Good news is that the confusion is resolved.. Raaja is still the MD for Paa. Hope he mesmerises us with awesome BGM

NagaS

29th October 2009, 11:43 AM

அதெல்லாம் சரி, ரெகார்ட் செஞ்ச புண்ணியவானை இவ்ளோ பாராட்டின அமிதாப்பு, original composerஐக் கண்டுக்காம விடறாரே, இது என்ன நியாயம்? வடக்கத்தி arrogance?

NagaS

cry_sandiego

29th October 2009, 12:19 PM

" ......he is busy and old to travel to chennai and record the song. "

:lol:

csramasami

29th October 2009, 12:29 PM

Satish,

Many Thanks. I am relieved of this unbearable tension now!

:bluejump: :redjump: :ty:

Sureshs65

29th October 2009, 12:39 PM

raagas,

As you know nowadays people only sing the track. Which means the orchestration would already have been done and recorded. Aadesh would have just recorded Amitabh's singing. My guess is someone would have already sung the song and that track would have been sent to Aadesh / Amitabh. That's what generally happens, from whatever I read. So Aadesh would not have done any orchestration here. A simple recording of Amitabh's voice would have happened.

NagaS: No need to get into this North / South divide. Amitabh has more than once recorded his praise for Illayaraja and for his maiden Tamil production used Kathik Raja and when his company did some 'Miss World' show, Raja provided the music. When Suhasini asked him about Raja and PC Sriram's work in Cheeni KUm, he replied, "They are Gods." Amitabh probably realizes Aadesh needs more publicity than Raja :).

cry_sandiego

29th October 2009, 12:41 PM

Suresh, You are probably correct.. I am enjoying Enge Nee sendraalum at this moment. The prelude is beautiful and it reminds me of TIS - Pooveru Konum ( my second best in TIS after Polla Vinayen ) . also the towards the end of the prelude just before the male voice starts, I am reminded on some earlier IR song ( Konji Pesalam ? ) , but could not place it exactly.. will probably find out after more listens. But definitely a good one.

Gokul, Vaanambadigal is good, but somewhere after the first minute or so, it seems to go in a different direction.. Also the female voice sounds a bit like " Malgudi Subha " at places.. not sure if it is her voice or the bass in my system .."

One thing, I am noticing that is IR seems to be charged up in 2009 - In all the 09 songs, I am seeing a lot of energy.. ( inspite of most of these movies being with relatively unkown/novice directors except NK and PR ) - I am not sure if he is intent trying to prove a point.. ( remember his speech at Valmiki function or some other function where he hinted " Enakku yaarum vendam.. Miskin paattu vaangittu ponaar.. athukappuram aalaye kaanam ".. ) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It98FMhweUg

Whatver be the motivation, the result seems to be Very good.. Hope he keeps up this trend..

He has brought back my frequency of TFM visits considerably in the last few months after a few years.

Cheers
MSK