Printable View
It is always men who LOUDLY says what WOMEN like or dislike! Men are IGNORANT and they should keep their loud mouth shut and let women SPEAK what they like.
WE DID NOT learn late writer sujatha was a MCP until his wife opened her mouth after his death!
That is how the world is. IGNORANT!
We need to talk to KB's wife how much she enjoyed "adultery" KB portrayed in his movies.
Why it is always some loud-mouthed men who tells WHAT women like or does not like!
A very characteristic post with lots of assumptions, generalisations, insinuations and blatant accusations-unwarranted. Never have I spared Balachander from my scathing, strong criticism! Old posts in this very forum and my address in a ladies college and my blogs can vouch for it. This practice of propagating a belief that women think like this, women feel like this, women are suffering like this, women are liberated like this is profitable, sensational grist for mill- fills the coffers, keeps the media abuzz. Lots of big shots have done this to be in the lime light. How eager mature, respectful men are to herald a world of super relationships! What a farce! Mainly such glib talks make most women refrain from voicing their criticism. A futile exercise, indeed! How amusing to take the women's views heard by the film-maker about the movie as the real opinion of the vast majority of the population! A real beautiful world does exist in spite of everything!!! Thank God! Nothing -no tidal waves of new-fangled ideas-can shake the rock of integrity and dignity of both men and women. Our moustached bard put it as common for both the sexes. It takes two to tango!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
>> assumptions, generalisations, insinuations and blatant accusations-unwarranted <<
That's spread right thru this thread!
Everyone's got their opinion and this can work both ways - aint it?!
Shouldn't we Ask Latha rajinikant about how she loved the Crude Chauvinism of Rajinikanth's movies?Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
Or perhaps with his Daughter Aishwarys rajinikanth who Slippered his Obsolete Conservative male chavinist BS with the way she married?
GO TALK to her RIGHT NOW! YOu got my approval! I wonder why do you need my approval to approach her!Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
சரியா பிடிச்சிங்க ஜீனோ! தமிழில் மசாலாப் படம் என்ற பெயரில் குடும்பத்தோடு இரண்டரை மணி நேரம் நம் வாழும் வாழ்க்கைக்கு கொஞ்சமே உதவாத மோசமான கருத்தாங்களை பார்த்து ரசிப்பார்களாம். பெண்ணடிமைத் தனத்தை தூக்கிப் பிடிக்கும், பெண்களை கொச்சைப் படுத்தும் இரட்டை அர்த்த வசனங்கள் என தமிழ் மசாலாப் படங்களே சீர்கெட்டுப் போன நிலையில் இதுபோன்ற குறும்படங்களை மட்டும் கத்தி முனையில் அணுகுவது முரண்.
என்ன செய்யலாம் இந்த குறும்பட மாந்தர்களை? உதிரிப்பூக்கள் போல, உயிரோடு நட்டாற்றில் இறக்கிவிடலாமா?
If you mean the moral police:Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
Kids chould be chided and perhaps made to sit in the corner on a chair!
Prison term, conviction - ellAm not needed!!
ஏன் இந்த கொலைவெறி? யார் மசாலா படங்களை பார்த்து ரசித்தார்கள்? :roll: கத்தி முனையில் அணுகியது அசிங்கமான புது கலாசாரத்தை!:twisted: அதை ஆதரிக்கும் அணுகுமுறையை!:twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
>> அசிங்கமான புது கலாசாரத்தை <<
Hahahaha! Then what's New?Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
>>அசிங்கமான புது கலாசாரத்தை <<
Please read your initial posts in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
Majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
Its your personal view Madam.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
Venkiram sir:
Everybody is sharing their personal view. But some men here are speaking for women and what they say what women like! I wonder why?! Let KB's wife and Latha Rajnikanth speak for themselves just like Sujatha wife revealed about how she was treated by her husband! OK!
"பரசுராமன் அவதாரம், மனோகரன் மனிதன்"-இதிகாச கதைகள், இட்டுக்கட்டிய காட்டுமிராண்டிக்கதைகள் பண்டைய கால, பகுத்தறிவும், பல விதமாய் மனித மேன்மையை பகுத்தறியும் நாகரிகமும் வளராத விட்டலாச்சார்யா மாடல் கதைகள் இன்று என்ன விதத்தில் பொருந்தும்? ஆமை போல் ஐந்தடக்க சொன்ன வள்ளுவம் மறந்து மக்கள் மாக்களாய் மாறியது புது 'நாகரிகமே'!Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
அப்படி ஒவ்வொருத்தரின் மனைவியையும் வெளிப்படையாகச் சொல்லித்தான் தெரிந்துகொள்ளணும் என அவசியம் இல்லையென நினைக்கிறேன். பெண்ணடிமை, ஆணாதிக்கம் என்பது எதோ ஆண் சமூகத்திற்கு மட்டுமே உரித்தானது அல்ல. அப்படிப்பட்ட சூழலில் தலைமுறை தலைமுறையாய் வாழ்ந்து வரும் அடிமைப் பெண்களும்தான். நிறைய வீட்டில் பெண்களுக்கு பெண்ணடிமைத் தனத்தை போதிப்பது கூட பெண்கள் தான். அதனால குரல்களுக்கு ஜெண்டர் முத்திரை போடவேண்டாம் என்பது என் நிலைப்பாடு.Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
காமத்துப்பாலை எழுதிய கோமகனும் வள்ளுவன்-தான்!Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
காமத்துப்பால் - 1 களவு இயல்
109 தகையணங்குறுத்தல் - குறள் 1082
நோக்கினாள் நோக்கெதிர் நோக்குதல் தக்கணங்கு
தானைக்கொண் டன்னது உடைத்து
புதுக்கவிதை உரை:
பார்த்தேன் நான் அவளை
பதிலாகப்
பார்த்தாள் அவளும் என்னை
வெறுமனே அவள் பார்த்தாலே
அந்தப் பார்வை எனைக்
கொன்று குவிப்பதாய் இருக்க
அவளோ
ஒரு படையையே
தன் விழிகளில் திரட்டி
என்னைப்
பார்த்துத் தொலைத்தாளே
----------------------------------------------------
முத்தொள்ளாயிரம்
செங்கால் மடநாராய்!
தென் உறந்தை சேறியேல்,
நின் கால்மேல் வைப்பான் என்
கையிரண்டும் - வன்பால்க்
கரை உரிஞ்சி மீன் பிறழும்
காவிரி நீர் நாடற்(கு),
உரையாயோ யான் உற்ற
( அழகிய நாரையே, தெற்கேயுள்ள
உறையூருக்குச் செல்வாயானால்,
உன் காலைப் பிடித்துக் கும்பிடத் தயார்.
தேகத்தின் வலிமை காரணமாகக் கரையின்
மேல் உராய்ந்து, உராய்ந்து ஏறிய மீனானது
மறுபடியும் நீரில் விழுந்து விடுகிற மீனின்
தேகக்கொழுப்பு சோழனுக்கு யான்
உற்ற காதல் கூறுவாயக!)
---------------------------
துடியடி, தோல்ச்செவி தூங்குகை, நால்வாய்ப்
பிடியே! யான் நின்னை இரப்பால், கடிகமழ்தார்ச்
சேலேக வண்ணனொடு சேரி புகுதலும், எம்
சாலேகம் சார் நட.
(கெஞ்சி கேட்டுக்கொள்ளுகிறேன்.
வாசனை கமழும் மாலை சூடிய,
சந்தனம் பூசிய பாண்டியனோடு,
ஊருக்குள் பிரவேசிக்கவும் அதாவது,
நீராடிவிட்டு உன்மேல் ஏறி
ஊருக்குள் மன்னன் புகும் போது,
எங்கள் வீட்டு ஜன்னலை ஒட்டி
நடந்து வரவேண்டும்.
நான் அங்கு நின்று கொண்டிருப்பேன்
விஷயம் தெரிகிறதா, பிடியே?)
{அரசனைக் கண் குளிரப் பார்த்துவிட வேண்டுமென்ற
ஆத்திரம் அப்படி இருக்கிறது அந்த பெண்ணுக்கு !}
The point here is if some MEN are pretending feminists would not make them as feminist. Because men are manipulative. They manipulate everything. Let men speak for themselves and of course they can share their personal view. This is 21st century. You still want to speak for women and what they like as if THEY DONT HAVE a mouth? Is that hard to understand??Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
Agreed. I think he was ANOTHER MAN?Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
Or, vaLLuvan was a girl?
Educate me, please!
Some "kondai" at some point of time in early 20th century:Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
Let "believers" (read Shudhras) Speak for themselves why should Erode Ramasamy Naicker and his Atheist henchmen speak of God and the varna created by God?
another kondai:
"Pottu kattuthal"(Read forcible temple prostitution) is a Pure Hindoo belief system. and it is a right of the brahmin poosari!
Atheists cannot protest what believers should do inside temples!
PP quoted Valluvar: ஆமை போல் ஐந்தடக்க சொன்ன வள்ளுவம்Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
I quoted kAmaththuppAl kuRaL!
I reminded you that vaLLuvan is another MAN. He could not have understood women feelings just like other men here who speak for women! That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
Bah! are you seriously listening to yourselves speaking?!Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
ஒரு பொண்ணு மனசு இன்னொரு பொண்ணுக்குதாம்மா தெரியும்?!
Men are always pretending like THEY UNDERSTOOD women as well. They are stupid if they think so!Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
சரி "வெள்ளி வீதியார்" - பெண்தான்!
நற்றிணை 335
நெய்தல் திணை
நற்றிணை 335, வெள்ளிவீதியார், நெய்தல் திணை - தலைவி சொன்னது
திங்களும் திகழ் வான் ஏர்தரும் இமிழ் நீர்ப்
பொங்கு திரைப் புணரியும் பாடு ஓவாதே
ஒலி சிறந்து ஓதமும் பெயரும் மலி புனற்
பல் பூங் கானல் முள் இலைத் தாழை
சோறு சொரி குடையின் கூம்பு முகை அவிழ
வளி பரந்து ஊட்டும் விளிவு இல் நாற்றமொடு
மை இரும் பனைமிசைப் பைதல உயவும்
அன்றிலும் என்புற நரலும் அன்றி
விரல் கவர்ந்து உழந்த கவர்வின் நல் யாழ்
யாமம் உய்யாமை நின்றன்று
காமம் பெரிதே களைஞரோ இலரே.
The bright moon rises to the sky,
and the swelling ocean’s waves
hit the shores relentlessly with loud noises.
In the groves with many flowers
the thorny-leaved screwpines open their tight buds
like vessels that pour out rice,
and the wind spreads its undying fragrance.
The black ibis on top of the big dark palmyra tree
cries in pain and distress without a pause,
and it is bone chilling.
A fine lute is stroked all night with no break,
and I do not wish to survive.
The music is sad.
My desire is great and my lover is not here to heal.
திங்களும் திகழ் – splendid moon, வான் ஏர்தரும் – rising on the sky, இமிழ் நீர்ப் – flowing water, பொங்கு திரைப் – abundant waves, புணரி யும் – ocean also, பாடு ஓவாதே – sound doesn’t stop, ஒலி சிறந்து – with loud noises, ஓதமும் – flooding waters, பெயரும் – move, மலி புனல் – abundant waters, பல் பூங் கானல் – grove with many flowers, முள் இலைத் தாழை – thorny leaved thāzhai, சோறு சொரி – pouring rice, குடையின் – vessel, கூம்பு முகை அவிழ – opening its tight buds, வளி – wind, பரந்து – spreads, ஊட்டும் – pour, விளிவு இல் நாற்றமொடு – undying fragrance, மை இரும் பனை – dark big palmyrah palm trees, மிசை – above, பைதல – sadness, உயவும் – in distress, அன்றிலும் – anril bird, என்புற – bones, நரலும் அன்றி -without stopping the noise, விரல் கவர்ந்து – stroke (strings) with fingers, உழந்த – sadness, கவர்வின் – desirable, நல் யாழ் – good yāzh, யாமம் – night, உய்யாமை – wish to not survive ,நின்றன்று – does not stop, காமம் பெரிதே – my desire is great, களைஞரோ இலரே – my lover who can remove it is not here
திங்கள் வானை உழுதுகொண்டிருக்கிறது.
கடல் அலையால் உறங்கவில்லை.
கடலலை (ஓதம்) வந்து வந்து போய்க்கொண்டிருக்கிறது.
தாழை மணத்தைப் பரப்பிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறது.
தாழைமேல் இருக்கும் அன்றில் பறவையும் தன் துணையுடன் நரலுகிறது (ஒலித்துக்கொண்டிருக்கிறது)
என் யாழ் என் விரல் தடவாமல் ஏங்குகிறது.
என் காமம் மிகப் பெரியது. அதைக் களைபவர் இல்லை. (என் செய்வேன்?) - என்று கவலைப்படுகிறாள் தலைவி.
இன்னொரு பெண்பாற் புலவரோடு இப்போதைக்கு முடித்துக் கொள்வோம்!
குறுந்தொகை 126, ஒக்கூர் மாசாத்தியார், முல்லை திணை - தலைவி தோழியிடம் சொன்னது
இளமை பாரார் வள நசைஇச் சென்றோர்
இவணும் வாரார் எவணரோ எனப்
பெயல் புறந்தந்த பூங்கொடி முல்லைத்
தொகுமுகை இலங்கு எயிறாக
நகுமே தோழி நறுந் தண் காரே.
Kurunthokai 126, Okkūr Māsāthiyār, Mullai Thinai – What the தலைவி said to her friend
He did not think about youth
when he went desiring wealth.
He has not come back
and I wonder where he is. The rows of bright buds
on the delicate mullai
vines nurtured by the
fragrant, cool rain appear
to laugh at me, my friend.
- Translated by Vaidehi
“With scant regard for the joys of youth
He left from here seeking his fortune.
He has not yet come back!
Where could he be now?”
When thus we are worried,
The season of rain, cool and fragrant,
With its assemblage of buds,
Of the rain-fed mullai vines
Serving as its glittering teeth
Laughs at us!
- Translated by Dr. A. Dakshinamurthy
இளமை பாரார் – does not think about youth, வள நசைஇச் சென்றோர் – went with desire for wealth, இவணும் வாரார் – hasn’t come back, எவணரோ வெனப் – wondering where he is, பெயல் புறந்தந்த – protected from the rain , பூங்கொடி முல்லைத் – delicate mullai vine, தொகு முகை – buds in a row, in a bunch, இலங்கு எயி றாக – beautiful teeth – இலங்கு literal meaning is fame, renown, glory, நகுமே தோழி – will laugh my friend ,நறுந் தண் காரே - sweet cool rainy season.
What are you saying? Is this "heroine" wants to sleep with some other man or a stranger than her own husband or lover??Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
Is that how you understood this poem or what?
என் காமம் மிகப் பெரியது. அதைக் களைபவர் இல்லை. (என் செய்வேன்?) - என்று கவலைப்படுகிறாள் தலைவி.Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
You got it from a woman - how she feels about her desires. Its about a women's desires. It could be anything. veLLi veethiyaar and the avvaiyaar who lived in the athiyamaan's times were truly liberated women (she was not a old woman, she was young, lovely and shares/drinks kaL with athiyamaan!)...
The original discussion was about the woman's feelings and how she impulsively acts on her feelings.
All the quotations form ancient texts are to reinforce that the act of chosing to love, chosing a partner has been equitable to both sexes.
Nothing new, except for moral police!
"பாலை" என்னவெல்லாம் செய்யும் என்பதை "பசலை" உற்ற பெண் அறிவாள்!
அம்புட்டுத்தேன்!
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So there’s been some comments about the “morals” and/or “ethics” of the characters/situation/events in the story…
Can I just ask… if we knew that Preethi was a very kind-hearted, compassionate and unselfish person, what would we think of her? I mean, if she was a doctor, who had spent a lot of time and effort providing some kind of free service to poor/disadvantaged people? Maybe she donated a lot of her own money to charity? Maybe she sponsored an academic education for economically disadvantaged students? Maybe she did a lot to provide help/support/assistance to people who needed it? And I'm sure there could be so many other admirable things about her as a person that we haven't been told about here (remember, we've only had a twenty-minute window into her life story)...
Would you still judge her negatively for just one event in her life when she did something that she later regretted?
I would – very, very respectfully – make this suggestion to the writer/director of the film – maybe the reason why a number of commentators apparently didn’t empathise with the Preethi character was because we have limited information about her background? Maybe if we knew more about her, maybe even just a little bit more – about her personality/her nature – over the years, her other personal likes, dislikes, hopes, fears, desires, anxieties, previous achievements, future aims, other joys and disappointments in her life – maybe if we knew a bit more about her, maybe, just maybe, we would be less inclined to apply our standards to her actions, maybe we would understand her just a little better...
The above comment not intended in any way to be a harsh criticism, just a very respectful suggestion you may wish to take into consideration when writing your next script/making your next film, etc.
As I stated earlier, while I have no experience of making films, I have previously tried my hand at writing short stories, so I’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking about the art of story-telling. That’s where my opinions/ideas originate from, although of course I’m not a professional nor any kind of expert! One tip which may be useful - of course you're almost certainly aware of this already – you could try writing the script backwards – i.e. start at the end of the story, and from there, work out how it might have all begun... this is the kind of story where the situations drive the characters, not the other way round... just my thoughts :-)
Best wishes!
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Male assumptions! :rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
Who disagreed with that? Who advocates celibacy? Not we! ஒழுக்க நெறி பிறழாமல் வாழவே விரும்பும் மானமுள்ள பெண்ணினம்! விட விரும்பவில்லையே ஆணினம்!Quote:
Originally Posted by geno
Can't understand how the woman's charitable nature can justify her lust?:roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipolar
Bipolar: The short-movie was presented here and asked to share everyone's opinion. Some say that they love this. Some others say, I dont like this because that's against my beliefs and my morals.
The creator accepts both appreciation and criticisms and he knew that those are going to happen.
Now, one who does not like are labeled as "moral police"! Any open-minded man should be able to respect any criticisms!
You judge the heroine's attitude and let others judge the heroine's attitude as well.
Now, what are you expecting from others?
Should they judge the same manner you judge? Then SOMETHING wrong with YOU!
* The problem is Men are amazing animals in the universe. They created "prostitution" and "pornography" vicitimising "women" but they pretend like they care about women's feelings more than their owns!
* They pretend like feminists to the world and some unknown chicks. But their wives know what kind of cheats they are. They wont let the wives speak what they feel. They will speak for their wives too just like our writer, late Sujatha, until they die!
They cant satisfy their wives' desires as they act like an MCP with her. But they come out to public and worry about feelings an "attractive bimbo" who is yet to see the life and "REAL MEN"! This is what they have been doing.
Neatly summed up!
BTW, I'm curious - what's an "MCP"?
A male chauvinist pig (MCP) was a term used in the 1960s among some feminists for some men, usually men with some power (such as an employer or professor), who believed that men were superior and expressed that opinion freely in word and action.
My theory is men forced and convinced and brainwashed some women that they really like what these perverts want to do! It is a "mind game" men playing with women to get what they want.
If evolution is true, men and lions are "cousins" :lol:
You know what lion does when it kills another lion and take over its pride?
It kills the husband leaves the wife ( "lioness") alive but kills all the innocent "cubs" ( daughters and sons of the lioness) completely. Then it convinces the widow "lioness" to be his wife and have his children! The lioness lives with the murderer who killed her family completely, as a wife!
You could see the same with the "civilized men" in a "civilized manner" even today! Men manipulate women! They make them believe whatever he wants to do as her likings!
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Can I just mention - many of the comments here are about morals, ethics, feminism, etc. etc.
I'm really more interested in discussing the art/technique(s) of storytelling and/or scriptwriting - screenplay/dialogue-writing, editing, camera angles, etc.
So really I'm not trying to make any comments on morals or ethics here - I don't feel this thread is the best place for that discussion.
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All yours, bipolar! You can start and carry on your discussion as you wish. I promise you, I am not going to come in your way anymore! All the best! :)
Okay, no I didn't mean it that way....Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
In any case, I think I have said all I have to say on this topic. I too am stepping away from this discussion...
Possibly later on, I might start some other threads to discuss some stories/scripts that I have tried... I'll be posting either on the Stories page or the TV/serials page...
wow! in a few days this thread got into such a heated debate. I don't really have time to reply to every individual post, so please bear with me.
geno,
I am more liberal than conservative, especially on social issues, but I would take issue with you branding others as "moral police". moral policing is when some try to impose their morals and values on others, i.e. actually forcing people to behave the way they want by intimidation, passing laws etc. In this case thamiz, pavalamani etc are just expressing their valid (from their perspective) concerns that society is degenerating. I don't agree with them, but I can see where they are coming from.
bipolar,
this was my first attempt at film-making. there was quite a bit that I wanted to show in terms of how Karthik impressed Preeti, but could not due to inexperience. I could not show much about Preeti's character since I wanted to conceal that she was married till the end. everything has a +ve and a -ve. Due to my nature I always look at the positives. I feel that under the right circumstances, when two people are together, even if it is but for a brief period, nothing else matters. if they enjoy each others company and understand each other, then everything else just melts away. it may be idealistic, but I strongly feel this way. so even if I did build up her character in terms of the good she has done in her life, some will still view her as bad, and some will give her the benefit of the doubt and view her as good.
you all will be happy to hear that I have the broad outline of my next story. no controversies, extra-marital affairs or anything like that! :)
it's about this desi guy who comes to the US with the sole aim of earning money, then returning to India and enjoying the rest of his life. his family is in debt, so he slums it out here without experiencing much that the US has to offer. eventually though, when it gets closer to the time he returns, he falls in love with this single mom (american or abcd - not decided), and at the same time his wedding is fixed in india with a girl from a rich family. how does he resolve this?
tigger2: I congratulate you for having the courage to portray what you felt were real human feelings and situations (சில நேரங்களில் சில மனிதர்கள்!) in your first venture into movie making. I liked the finished product; considering that this was your first venture, and the limitations involved in making a short movie with possibly limited resources. I am sure that the feelings expressed on these pages by the reviewers would be helpful to you. My only advice to you is to continue to be true to yourself and how you feel about people, their feelings and the situations and circumstances. Whatever you create, there will be people who love it or people who will hate it with a passion. I hope you will not start making movies just to make people like them. Looking forward to your next production! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tigger2